quote:Originally posted by captaintobeys:
I am interested in the oil cooler. How, Where, What Did you do?
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I am interested in the oil cooler. How, Where, What Did you do?
What did I do? Alot.
Simplest thing for you to do is go with one of the premade kits like Hall has.
You can make modifications within that to your own liking.
What I did in a nutshell is mount a Ford Motorsport oil cooler to the front of the right rear splash shield. Installed a remote dual filter mounted near it to the chassis rail.
Ran -10 hose from the former oil filter location on the block to the dual filters, to the oil cooler.
There are lots of other small details that I added but those you need to decide for yourself. For one thing, I have an OIL THERMOSTAT that doesn't open and let oil into the oil cooler until the oil reaches a certain temperature. This keeps from over cooling the oil which isn't good either.
Pro Stock cars have run oil engine heaters for quite some time now.
Mine is my own version of Halls. Simplest thing is to start with theirs and then improvise.
Try this one. I think Hall buys it from these guys? It's using an Earls cooler and you will need to add the remote filter adapters if you want to go that way. This one is a good start.
http://precisionproformance.com/en3015.php
This is (v look at the picture below v)how you want to mount the cooler (mounts on the inside of the louvered splash shield). It's a good spot for it.
When the tire rotates, it acts like a fan and draws air through the cooler and louvers into the right wheel well.
Looking at these hoses though, they look like -8. I've got 80 psi in the system using the -10.
The -10 assures there is adequate volume in the system and also adds another quart or so to the system.
If you run hot with this, then come back and I'll show you how to mount an automatic on electric fan to blow over it at a predetermined temperature.
That's a whole different story, so don't start up with me. It's on a need to know basis. LOL.
Try this kit first. Incidentally, that's a "mill" polished stainless steel 304 splash shield. You have to peel the mylar off of it after you get it.
Simplest thing for you to do is go with one of the premade kits like Hall has.
You can make modifications within that to your own liking.
What I did in a nutshell is mount a Ford Motorsport oil cooler to the front of the right rear splash shield. Installed a remote dual filter mounted near it to the chassis rail.
Ran -10 hose from the former oil filter location on the block to the dual filters, to the oil cooler.
There are lots of other small details that I added but those you need to decide for yourself. For one thing, I have an OIL THERMOSTAT that doesn't open and let oil into the oil cooler until the oil reaches a certain temperature. This keeps from over cooling the oil which isn't good either.
Pro Stock cars have run oil engine heaters for quite some time now.
Mine is my own version of Halls. Simplest thing is to start with theirs and then improvise.
Try this one. I think Hall buys it from these guys? It's using an Earls cooler and you will need to add the remote filter adapters if you want to go that way. This one is a good start.
http://precisionproformance.com/en3015.php
This is (v look at the picture below v)how you want to mount the cooler (mounts on the inside of the louvered splash shield). It's a good spot for it.
When the tire rotates, it acts like a fan and draws air through the cooler and louvers into the right wheel well.
Looking at these hoses though, they look like -8. I've got 80 psi in the system using the -10.
The -10 assures there is adequate volume in the system and also adds another quart or so to the system.
If you run hot with this, then come back and I'll show you how to mount an automatic on electric fan to blow over it at a predetermined temperature.
That's a whole different story, so don't start up with me. It's on a need to know basis. LOL.
Try this kit first. Incidentally, that's a "mill" polished stainless steel 304 splash shield. You have to peel the mylar off of it after you get it.
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Here's the oil filter adapter.
www.anplumbing.com
www.anplumbing.com
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Here is what I did.
I have since, added a fan...
I have since, added a fan...
Wow, what oil temps were you running that require that big cooler AND a fan?
quote:Originally posted by ZR1 Pantera:
Here is what I did.
I have since, added a fan...
quote:Wow, what oil temps were you running that require that big cooler AND a fan?
I don't remember what the oil temps were but if I remember correctly, I think they were 230-250 while on the track. Never that high on the street.
I probably don't need the fan but it can't hurt since I can turn it on or off as needed. My oil temps now run very close to my water temps. Even when running very hard on the track for 30 minutes!
I was going to place the cooler where my condenser was. I have already fitted a new fan in the shroud.
quote:I don't remember what the oil temps were but if I remember correctly, I think they were 230-250 while on the track. Never that high on the street.
I guess I don't drive my old Cleveland hard enough! My car has a pretty good size cooler and I am unable to attain 200 degree oil.
hmmmmm
Here's a scan of Halls oil cooler installation.
It shows the tire side of the splash shield with the louvres and mounted to the other side is the oil cooler.
This is what I have, although my connections point down so the oil drains on an oil change.
It's actually a good place to put the cooler.
It shows the tire side of the splash shield with the louvres and mounted to the other side is the oil cooler.
This is what I have, although my connections point down so the oil drains on an oil change.
It's actually a good place to put the cooler.
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IMHO, 95% of Panteras do NOT need an oil cooler. But if you habitually run over 150 mph or thrash around for long periods of time in lower gears at high rpms on-track, a water-to-oil cooler is far simpler to install and has higher efficiency than any air-to-oil cooler. They are much smaller, too. An air-to-water cooler mounted in place of the A/C condenser not surprisingly will have the very same high-speed air flow problems as stock A/C, just when you need an oil cooler the most.
Water-based coolers do not need ducting or body mods; they can mount virtually anywhere. Fluidyne makes several welded-box types, quite popular with Silver State and long distance enduro competitors (who DO need coolers). Laminova also makes some; they are good enough and so compact that Ford installed the tubular, rebuildable Laminova in police cars & taxis in the '90s.
As an experiment 8 years ago, I pulled a Laminova from a '93 Ford in a wrecking yard, installed in our '72 by cutting a 16" section out of the return water line under the floor and spliced it in front of the engine. Dash-8 AN lines from a remote filter adapter complete the assembly. Described (with photos) in POCA Newsletter Oct 2004; it's still on there.
Being only 3" OD, it does not reduce ground clearance and did reduce oil temps by 15 F while increasing radiator water temps by 5 F. You will need a GOOD aftermarket radiator; not for stock rads! Laminova of Sweden also has larger ones than the Ford assemblies available if junkyard-picking is not your thing. I suppose two Ford-Laminovas could run in series if really necessary, but I didn't try that.
Water-based coolers do not need ducting or body mods; they can mount virtually anywhere. Fluidyne makes several welded-box types, quite popular with Silver State and long distance enduro competitors (who DO need coolers). Laminova also makes some; they are good enough and so compact that Ford installed the tubular, rebuildable Laminova in police cars & taxis in the '90s.
As an experiment 8 years ago, I pulled a Laminova from a '93 Ford in a wrecking yard, installed in our '72 by cutting a 16" section out of the return water line under the floor and spliced it in front of the engine. Dash-8 AN lines from a remote filter adapter complete the assembly. Described (with photos) in POCA Newsletter Oct 2004; it's still on there.
Being only 3" OD, it does not reduce ground clearance and did reduce oil temps by 15 F while increasing radiator water temps by 5 F. You will need a GOOD aftermarket radiator; not for stock rads! Laminova of Sweden also has larger ones than the Ford assemblies available if junkyard-picking is not your thing. I suppose two Ford-Laminovas could run in series if really necessary, but I didn't try that.
I agree about few actually needing an oil cooler, especially with the Aviaid oil pan, but I couldn't help myself. It seems so logical. One thing led to another. I wanted to do the oil drain backs from the valve covers too but I think I must have passed out from all of the adrenalin.
...and the auxiliary automatic on fan was a compulsion I had to do.
Has the fan ever come on yet...no. I'll try harder though.
...and the auxiliary automatic on fan was a compulsion I had to do.
Has the fan ever come on yet...no. I'll try harder though.
I personally think that if you are going to install an oil cooler you should include an oil thermostat.
This will insure that you don't OVER COOL the oil on the street.
With a big system and an oil cooler that is an issue. Oil temps should run about 20 degrees hotter then the actual water temps. If not you are over cooled and probably will experience abnormal wear.
Using full synthetic oil will help somewhat.
I installed this one made by Mocal. It is available with -8, -10, or -12 AN nipples built in.
This will insure that you don't OVER COOL the oil on the street.
With a big system and an oil cooler that is an issue. Oil temps should run about 20 degrees hotter then the actual water temps. If not you are over cooled and probably will experience abnormal wear.
Using full synthetic oil will help somewhat.
I installed this one made by Mocal. It is available with -8, -10, or -12 AN nipples built in.
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This is how Ford adapted the oil cooler to the Boss 302 initially, and then to the other engines that all used the same spin on oil filter.
That's virtually everything except the FE series. The Fe series has a similar adapter that replaces the bolt on oil filter adapter, but is the same idea.
The reason I post this is to show the oil temp thermostat (behind the big hex bolt) built into the adapter.
It's just a big spring with a simple check valve that keeps the oil cooler closed until the oil temp reaches a certain temp.
Don't ask me what that is, I don't know.
This is what I have on my 68 GT350.
They have various casting numbers which denote which application they were supposed to be for.
They have all gotten very expensive and I have seen NOS sold for around $1,000, and used ones go for $800.
I got mine years ago as a Ford Service part.
I never tried to mount it in the Pantera so I can't swear that it will clear the chassis.
It's just posted here to show you another alternative to an oil cooler adapter AND THERMOSTAT combined.
That's virtually everything except the FE series. The Fe series has a similar adapter that replaces the bolt on oil filter adapter, but is the same idea.
The reason I post this is to show the oil temp thermostat (behind the big hex bolt) built into the adapter.
It's just a big spring with a simple check valve that keeps the oil cooler closed until the oil temp reaches a certain temp.
Don't ask me what that is, I don't know.
This is what I have on my 68 GT350.
They have various casting numbers which denote which application they were supposed to be for.
They have all gotten very expensive and I have seen NOS sold for around $1,000, and used ones go for $800.
I got mine years ago as a Ford Service part.
I never tried to mount it in the Pantera so I can't swear that it will clear the chassis.
It's just posted here to show you another alternative to an oil cooler adapter AND THERMOSTAT combined.
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Has anyone tried one of the oil filter adapter oil to water cooler / exchanger? Many cars have them as stock, maybe a more limited oil heat reduction than an oil to air cooler, but possibly simpler installation with the added benefit of quicker oil warmup. There are a quite a few different Ford models, here is a link to one on Jegs. http://www.jegs.com/i/Ford-Rac...7/M-6642-MB/10002/-1
The downside is getting the adapter that screws into the block to work. Most filters now are metric, there is a cooler that might be available in imperial, http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-...em53f1013379&vxp=mtr
When specifying the Police package when looking at oil filters it shows on some websites as 3/4"-16 for the oil filter. The same engine without oil cooler is a 22m fitting. The fitting in the block might still be a metric fitting...
The downside is getting the adapter that screws into the block to work. Most filters now are metric, there is a cooler that might be available in imperial, http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-...em53f1013379&vxp=mtr
When specifying the Police package when looking at oil filters it shows on some websites as 3/4"-16 for the oil filter. The same engine without oil cooler is a 22m fitting. The fitting in the block might still be a metric fitting...
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Yes. Bosswrench has. Read his post about it above. ^
Hi PanteraDoug, I did read Bosswrench's post but that is for the larger external Laminova style of cooler. That involves a fair amount of plumbing and as he concludes, 95% of owners do not need an oil cooler.
The cooler I was talking about is contained in the unit that screws in above the oil filter and looks a lot simpler to install. The external pipes are just water cooling pipes, there are installation instructions on the Jeg site also. The kit I posted is for the Boss 302 but there are kits for performance, trucks, towing or police packages which have replaced the external Laminova style units, as far as I can see, in the Ford / Ford Special Equipment range.
I am most likely in the 95% but the quick oil warmup interests me in cold MA, with maybe a little bit of oil cooling assistance when using my car in the 5%.
My present road cars with these styles of oil / water exchangers, reach mid gauge for the oil temp in about 6 miles in winter, a lot slower than the water temp. I am not sure how quick oil would get to temp without this style of oil exchanger, I have not owned a car which had an oil temp gauge without some sort of cooler.
If I went this route I would possibly plumb the unit in via the heater box coolant lines. I have installed this style of constant flow heater valve... http://www.dragtimes.com/parts...ew_280634203608.html
Which works very well and ensures constant flow in the heater water pipes even when the heater is temp is off. A lower rad hose hookup like in that Boss 302 Jegs link might work better for oil cooling but slower warmup.
The cooler I was talking about is contained in the unit that screws in above the oil filter and looks a lot simpler to install. The external pipes are just water cooling pipes, there are installation instructions on the Jeg site also. The kit I posted is for the Boss 302 but there are kits for performance, trucks, towing or police packages which have replaced the external Laminova style units, as far as I can see, in the Ford / Ford Special Equipment range.
I am most likely in the 95% but the quick oil warmup interests me in cold MA, with maybe a little bit of oil cooling assistance when using my car in the 5%.
My present road cars with these styles of oil / water exchangers, reach mid gauge for the oil temp in about 6 miles in winter, a lot slower than the water temp. I am not sure how quick oil would get to temp without this style of oil exchanger, I have not owned a car which had an oil temp gauge without some sort of cooler.
If I went this route I would possibly plumb the unit in via the heater box coolant lines. I have installed this style of constant flow heater valve... http://www.dragtimes.com/parts...ew_280634203608.html
Which works very well and ensures constant flow in the heater water pipes even when the heater is temp is off. A lower rad hose hookup like in that Boss 302 Jegs link might work better for oil cooling but slower warmup.
Yes but he answered the questions about oil to water cooling.
Because of the Pantera chassis, you many not be able to stack a "sandwhich" adapter in the car.
That you would have to try to determine.
Personally I don't like additional cooling load on the water cooling system in the car.
5 degrees additional load in some cases may be the straw that breaks the camels back.
GP (Grandpa Pence) stated a generic number that the Pantera cooling system has the capacity to cool a maximum of 500 hp.
Alot of you guys are loading it 600 to 700 hp.
Not only is that pushing the limits of the ZF, and the chassis in general but also the capacity of the cooling system.
I guess I'm just old school? I rather plumb in an air to oil cooler system. Shoot me.
A plus to the water to oil system though is that it acts as an oil warmer in colder climates and weather conditions.
Because of the Pantera chassis, you many not be able to stack a "sandwhich" adapter in the car.
That you would have to try to determine.
Personally I don't like additional cooling load on the water cooling system in the car.
5 degrees additional load in some cases may be the straw that breaks the camels back.
GP (Grandpa Pence) stated a generic number that the Pantera cooling system has the capacity to cool a maximum of 500 hp.
Alot of you guys are loading it 600 to 700 hp.
Not only is that pushing the limits of the ZF, and the chassis in general but also the capacity of the cooling system.
I guess I'm just old school? I rather plumb in an air to oil cooler system. Shoot me.
A plus to the water to oil system though is that it acts as an oil warmer in colder climates and weather conditions.
Wich tube size do you think is the smalest size? I want to install a old porsche rsr cooler in the front and an an12 tube is to big and not flexible enough! I think the smalest diameter from the oilfilter relocation is big enough for the tube. This will be an8 in my case. Thanks