Oil Pan

We had a discussion on oil pans recently, there is quite a bit of information and opinion;

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...562/m/4651025956/p/1

Julian

I wouldn't use an Aviad,it is NOT 10 qrts i ordered 1 and when i asked about how many qrts it held i was told 6.5 from the woman at Aviad,i had an old category that said more but she assured me it was 6.5 i sent it back AMANDO'S will make me a 10 qrt pan for my dart block CHI Cleveland head stroker which is also available for a Cleveland block

I got my 10 quart pan from Pantera Peformance.

I have Aviaid pans on both Pantera's and they hold 9-9.5 quarts. It states right on the product page it is 9 quarts!

http://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/...s_sbf_cleveland.html

I re-read your post and see you have a Dart block, so I presume the 351W version, which is stated as 7 quarts. I think they may have the wrong drawing & dimensions for this pan on the website as it would be too wide for the frame rails.

http://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/..._oilpns_sbf-ss3.html

The critical aspect is not so much in the absolute volume, but that the pickup is baffled and prevents it running dry in high g-force cornering

Armando worked for Aviaid and his pans are basically a direct copy. Either one does the job or will custom make at the end of the day.

Julian

Just stating what the woman from Avaid told me i had an old category that said different but she assured me that she was right

Aviad shows 7qrts for a 351 W on there web site

This raises the question to me if 9 quarts is really needed?

I do know that I have 12 quarts in the system of my Cleveland using an Aviaid pan, a dual filter, about 10 feet of -10 hose and a 6" x 12" x 1" oil cooler, the automatic auxiliary fan for the oil cooler has never come on.

It takes a while for the oil to get hot as well.
You could change that variable by running less oil in the system overall.
Clevelands much like FE's have shown some circumstantial evidence of oiling starvation due to lack of oil in the pan under duress. I haven't heard that suggested about W blocks but they do have a different oiling priority.

Now not having a W pan here to compare it to the C pan, I don't know why it would have a -2 qt difference necessarily?

You might have to look at the differences in height from the pan bottom to the block pan rails C vs. W?

I don't have any W pans here to check that dimension for you but Aviaid does show exterior dimensions of the pans that they offer.

Maybe that would help? The height would seem to be the only available variable between the two to me and that likely would change the quantity of oil the pan could hold.

Doug, when I installed my Ford/Laminova water/oil cooler, I added a MOCAL oil thermostat. Cuts off the oil cooler until the oil is up to temp. If it doesn't get up to temp in around town running, the cooler stays off-line. I have a similar engine system as yours except I sold my bulky dual filter & run a single remote.

My AVIAID 10+ qt pan has been on there since the '90s with no trouble, and I have second one for the Fontana block when that's ready. The depth and width of a 351C AVIAID is identical to a stock pan but the sump is much longer, holding the extra 4 qts. That's why we can use a stock dipstick.

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Doug, when I installed my Ford/Laminova water/oil cooler, I added a MOCAL oil thermostat. Cuts off the oil cooler until the oil is up to temp. If it doesn't get up to temp in around town running, the cooler stays off-line. I have a similar engine system as yours except I sold my bulky dual filter & run a single remote.

My AVIAID 10+ qt pan has been on there since the '90s with no trouble, and I have second one for the Fontana block when that's ready. The depth and width of a 351C AVIAID is identical to a stock pan but the sump is much longer, holding the extra 4 qts. That's why we can use a stock dipstick.

Jack I appreciate the advice on the Mocal oil thermostat and agree with you. I added it last year. It's a 210, not a 180 opening as well.

The temperature sender/on/off switch for the fan however is set differently at 220 or 225? Off hand, I forget which. I never thought of changing back from the dual filters though.

I've noticed that by far the most common thermostat used is 180. I don't get that. You need to boil the moisture out of the oil at some point.



I am a believer in not over cooling the oil. 210 to 220 is just about right. What it would run at in the Silver State though I don't know.

I would have to get you to drive the car. Are you game?



If it isn't the depth, it's the length. It can't be the width since that is limited by the frame rails? Why would the length (the added tank by Aviaid)of a W and a C pan be different? Does one of the Windsor's main caps get in the way?

The notch on my C pan is limited in length by the cross member.

http://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/...s_sbf_cleveland.html

This is the W pan. It is shorter according to this illustration.

This shows the tank is shorter.

Again, I have no idea why.

http://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/..._oilpns_sbf-ss3.html

Like I said I am not sure that online drawing represents the pan on offer as according to the width dimension it would not fit between the Pantera frame rails.

Julian

In speaking with John at Aviaid, he acknowledged that the dimensional drawing of the W pan is incorrect.
It is not a T pan. It is 15"long, narrower than the C pan, 7.5" deep sump and holds 7-7.5 quarts.

I don't think the cap gets in the way unless you have 4 bolts on all of them than yoy have to noch the pan according to AMANDO'S,I also thought of a pantera performance pan to,years ago before we ran dry sump system on our nascar modified stock cars we had 10 to 12 qrt systems with oil cooler and -10 lines,on a side note my new GT35O Shelby has a 10qrt composit pan

I ordered an Aviaid Pantera Windsor pan about 2.5 months ago and am still waiting. If and when it arrives I will be happy to check or confirm any dimensions. Mike

Sure, Doug- I'd love to try your car. Off-subject, but the only time I ever turned down a drive was in downtown Las Vegas when a member tossed my the keys to his brand new Ford GT. I thought about 5:00PM LV traffic, an unfamiliar $150,000 car and my bank balance, and handed them back, asking for a rain check.... That was 10 yrs ago so maybe I lost that chance!

Our Pantera also runs A-3 heads, with a hydraulic flat-tappet cam and a tuner-Holley on a Roush open plenum intake. Probably a milder tune than yours. And unbelievably, I agree with you on the thermostat; I run a 192F unit. My tests show that my engine runs the same temp regardless of thermostat. All those other ones do on my engine is change the warm-up time.

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Sure, Doug- I'd love to try your car. Off-subject, but the only time I ever turned down a drive was in downtown Las Vegas when a member tossed my the keys to his brand new Ford GT. I thought about 5:00PM LV traffic, an unfamiliar $150,000 car and my bank balance, and handed them back, asking for a rain check.... That was 10 yrs ago so maybe I lost that chance!

Our Pantera also runs A-3 heads, with a hydraulic flat-tappet cam and a tuner-Holley on a Roush open plenum intake. Probably a milder tune than yours. And unbelievably, I agree with you on the thermostat; I run a 192F unit. My tests show that my engine runs the same temp regardless of thermostat. All those other ones do on my engine is change the warm-up time.

OIL THERMOSTAT! Not coolant thermostat.

State of Tune, is almost state of mind. It has mostly to do with the camshaft.

It is just the Comp Cams 294 solid lifter. It kind of sounds like a college marching band at idle, boom-boom bada-bada boom, but has this freaky formula 1 sound when you rev it. The Webers which have a tendency to whistle normally tend to accentuate that whine.

My A3 heads were "a deal" back in the way back of the '80s. $400 off of the race car and all fresh with new valves, etc.

My sons are telling me it is too loud for the street. I think the issue is the 3" core mufflers? I need to slip those "side pipe" silencers in them. Those are the ones the Cobra and Corvette side pipe guys use to take the edge off.

I still need to put the double adjustable shocks in it so the nose will come down consistently at speed.

More testing and tuning is necessary by me before it can be completely unleashed.



Talk about turning down rides? I was walking through the pits at SAAC 30 something convention at Lime Rock. Probably '92 or so?

I stopped to talk to Rick Kopec who was with his "R Model", 5R098, one of the former Essex Wire race cars.

He tossed me the keys and said, "take it for a few laps". The point is I didn't and he never offered again.

All things considered, like you, I don't know how wise that was at all?



Then there was this time where I walked up to "the bar" to get...a soda-pop, sure, just a Coke, and this guy stops me and says, "my wife likes you, she wants to know if you will do her?"

See. I get hit with stuff when I least expect it and genuinely do not know what to do. You can clearly see this on me with that "deer caught in the headlights" expression?

I was with my Church group and we were discussing what hyms to sing next Sunday.

I do know, you can never go back though? Like the old 442 commercial said, "buy it or watch it go by?"

I owe you folks an answer - bought the Aviaid oil pan and now happy with it.

All,

I finally received my Aviaid Pantera Windsor pan. If anyone needs dimensions or any other info about the pan please ask and I will do my best.

Mike, if its not too late before you mount the new pan, could you shoot a photo or provide a sketch? I know another member had quite a time trying to get an Aviaid pan to fit on his 302 Windsor Mangusta some years back. Windsor blocks could be front, mid or rear sump, depending on the oil pump.....

Tomorrow I will take a few photos and make a simple sketch. Last time I tried attaching photos it didn't work. Not sure what I did wrong. Any help on how to attach photos is much appreciated. My engine is a couple of months away from completion so I have plenty of time to look at it.

I took several photos of the oil pan and made them very small. I also did a quick sketch with dimensions and saved it as a PDF. I am still having difficulty adding the attachments to a message. I select "Add Attachments" then browse to my folder then select the file. I add a file description. Nothing happens. What am I missing?

P1

I think I got it now

P3

P4

P5

P6

Very nice.