Tyres are a funny thing within old cars. I predominantly drive '20s cars, and we get asked 3 main questions
1/ How much is that worth?
2/have you had it for long?
and
3/ can you still get tyres for that?
It's obvious that the 285/40/15 are very difficult to use in the back of Pantera, they are 11.4% too small.
Dougal,
The 225/50-15 - 285/50-15 P7 combination may have only been OEM on European GTS Panteras manufactured after the P7 became available but that size combination fits the thousands of regular L and pre-L Panteras made between '71 and '74. Some will say a 285/50-15 is a bit wide for the Pantera's 8" OEM wheel but it was within Pirelli's range of approved wheel widths. Furthermore, hundreds of owners have fitted the OEM 10" rear wheels which are perfect for the 285/50-15. None of this will be news to Pirelli, assuming they still have records of how many 285/50-15 P7's they sold while it was in production. They certainly would have sold more than 100 pairs of tires! Keep in mind, there were VR speed rated alternatives back then, including the 275/55-15 P7. Today, in a matched set, there are none.
The 225/50-15 - 285/50-15 P7 combination may have only been OEM on European GTS Panteras manufactured after the P7 became available but that size combination fits the thousands of regular L and pre-L Panteras made between '71 and '74. Some will say a 285/50-15 is a bit wide for the Pantera's 8" OEM wheel but it was within Pirelli's range of approved wheel widths. Furthermore, hundreds of owners have fitted the OEM 10" rear wheels which are perfect for the 285/50-15. None of this will be news to Pirelli, assuming they still have records of how many 285/50-15 P7's they sold while it was in production. They certainly would have sold more than 100 pairs of tires! Keep in mind, there were VR speed rated alternatives back then, including the 275/55-15 P7. Today, in a matched set, there are none.
quote:
Originally posted by www.longstone.com:
... If this range can wash it's face and promotes the Pirelli brand they will do it ...
I have confidence that if this 285/50R15 tire (tyre) is stocked it shall sell very well.
quote:
Originally posted by René #4406:
It's obvious that the 285/40/15 are very difficult to use in the back of Pantera, they are 11.4% too small.
René that is the front tire for the wide body Panteras (GT4, GT5, GT5-S). It is about the same diameter as the 225/50R15 which is the front tire for narrow body Panteras equipped with P7s. They are both about 24 inches (61cm) diameter.
There are four OEM tire sets installed on Panteras manufactured from 1971 to 1990:
Set 1 1971-1972 185/70VR15 + 215/70VR15 This set is available in Michelin XWX. There is little demand for this size.
Set 2 1973-1977 205/60VR15 + 255/60VR15 This set is available in BFG Radial T/A (speed rated S). The Rear is also available in Pirelli CN12.
Set 3 1978-1984 225/50VR15 + 285/50VR15 The Front is available in Pirelli P7 and P-Zero. THE REAR IS NOT AVAILABLE ANYWHERE.
Set 4 1978-1990 285/40VR15 + 345/35VR15 This set is available in Pirelli P7.
The rear tire for set 3 is the tire currently under discussion, and the most urgent need.
A great number of owners of 1971-1977 Panteras retro-fitted their Panteras with factory 10x15 rear wheels, and moved the 8x15 rear wheels to the front position, in order to accommodate the tires of set 3. Every 10x15 wheel that De Tomaso had stocked, at least a cargo container full of them, sold-out long ago. The 10x15 wheel remains popular even though the proper tire hasn't been available for years. When a used set of 10x15 wheels comes-up for sale, they sell quickly at top dollar prices. There are not one but two aftermarket companies manufacturing this wheel still today (Roin and Marvic). I know people who have purchased used Panteras simply because they had this size rear wheel. They removed the 10x15 wheels, replaced them with 8x15 wheels, and placed the Pantera up for sale again.
.
quote:Originally posted by George P:
René that is the front tire for the wide body Panteras (GT4, GT5, GT5-S). It is about the same diameter as the 225/50R15 which is the front tire for narrow body Panteras equipped with P7s. They are both about 24 inches (61cm) diameter.
There are four OEM tire sets installed on Panteras manufactured from 1971 to 1990:
Set 1 1971-1972 185/70VR15 + 215/70VR15 This set is available in Michelin XWX. There is little demand for this size.
Set 2 1973-1977 205/60VR15 + 255/60VR15 This set is available in BFG Radial T/A (speed rated S). The Rear is also available in Pirelli CN12.
Set 3 1978-1984 225/50VR15 + 285/50VR15 The Front is available in Pirelli P7 and P-Zero. THE REAR IS NOT AVAILABLE ANYWHERE.
Set 4 1978-1990 285/40VR15 + 345/35VR15 This set is available in Pirelli P7.
The rear tire for set 3 is the tire currently under discussion, and the most urgent need.
A great number of owners of 1971-1977 Panteras retro-fitted their Panteras with factory 10x15 rear wheels, and moved the 8x15 rear wheels to the front position, in order to accommodate the tires of set 3. Every 10x15 wheel that De Tomaso had stocked, at least a cargo container full of them, sold-out long ago. The 10x15 wheel remains popular even though the proper tire hasn't been available for years. When a used set of 10x15 wheels comes-up for sale, they sell quickly at top dollar prices. There are not one but two aftermarket companies manufacturing this wheel still today (Roin and Marvic). I know people who have purchased used Panteras simply because they had this size rear wheel. They removed the 10x15 wheels, replaced them with 8x15 wheels, and placed the Pantera up for sale again.
.
That's exactly what I would like to do if Pirelli were making 285/50VR15 and you're obviously right when you say there's a lot more Pantera L in circulation than GT4, GT5 or GT5S.
While waiting for Pirelli to may be produce 285/50 VR15 for the rear of the Pantera L and GTS, there are the AVON CR6ZZ in 295/50 VR15 which have almost the same diameter as the 265/60/15 (26.61"vs 27.05").
Unfortunately AVON does not manufacture CR6ZZ in 225/50 VR15.
CR6ZZ being road-approved race tires, it seems to me that it is not recommended to use them with front tires such as Pirelli P7 or P Zero which are excellent but "normal" road tires.
But there are the Toyo R888R which are also road-approved race tires that exist in 225/50 ZR15, do you think they are compatible with the AVON CR6ZZ?
Unfortunately AVON does not manufacture CR6ZZ in 225/50 VR15.
CR6ZZ being road-approved race tires, it seems to me that it is not recommended to use them with front tires such as Pirelli P7 or P Zero which are excellent but "normal" road tires.
But there are the Toyo R888R which are also road-approved race tires that exist in 225/50 ZR15, do you think they are compatible with the AVON CR6ZZ?
Rene, I'm not a tire expert, only a (frequent) consumer, so take the following with a grain of salt. For several years in the late '80s we competed in autocross (1st & 2nd gear only) in a home-built Gr-3-type '72 pre-L with a high-power engine for the time and a pair of 245-50x 15 Yokohama radials on 8" front wheels with Hoosier 295-50 x 15 belted-bias tires on 10" wheels in back. We literally did not care if the treads matched all around- this was about competing at speed, not a car show.
The car handled well enough with "mismatched tires" to win a State Championship in B/Prepared Stock one year & as runner-up to a Corvette with much larger tires the next year. So I suspect the prohibition of mismatching tires is for those ON THE SAME AXLE, not necessarily the same on both ends of the car. In other words, one should not run a Yokohama on the left front and a Goodyear on the right front. Squirrely handling might then show up, especially at higher speeds than those we enjoyed with this Pantera.
Note also the soft, road-legal Hoosier DOTs in the rear were both worn to the cords in less than 1000 miles of autocrossing plus legal street driving to and from the 12 events that year... Your mileage may vary!
The car handled well enough with "mismatched tires" to win a State Championship in B/Prepared Stock one year & as runner-up to a Corvette with much larger tires the next year. So I suspect the prohibition of mismatching tires is for those ON THE SAME AXLE, not necessarily the same on both ends of the car. In other words, one should not run a Yokohama on the left front and a Goodyear on the right front. Squirrely handling might then show up, especially at higher speeds than those we enjoyed with this Pantera.
Note also the soft, road-legal Hoosier DOTs in the rear were both worn to the cords in less than 1000 miles of autocrossing plus legal street driving to and from the 12 events that year... Your mileage may vary!
A real racing driver, which I'm not, is able to cope with an unbalanced car, but I'm afraid that tires with a big difference in grip between the front and the rear create problems especially when braking especially on a Pantera that already has this problem at the origin, hence my question.
You could cope - especially if the front tires break loose well before the rears. You would just understeer and slide - scrubbing speed until you slow down enough to be able to turn (hopefully you don't hit anything before then). This is how almost all new cars are set up to handle.
The mismatched front/back thing is not much different than having the suspension (mis)adjusted in a way that sets up the same characteristics.
If you never drive your car in a way that makes any of the tires lose lateral grip, then you'd never notice the difference (except for maybe tire noise, ride comfort, or looks).
The mismatched front/back thing is not much different than having the suspension (mis)adjusted in a way that sets up the same characteristics.
If you never drive your car in a way that makes any of the tires lose lateral grip, then you'd never notice the difference (except for maybe tire noise, ride comfort, or looks).
Hi
I'm sorry if I am spamming this comment a little but I would like to try to rally up as much support as possible so I don't want anyone that might be interested to miss it. I hope you'll agree it is for a good cause. I have the blessings of the forum administrator.
I have made a De Tomaso Pantera web page, here's a link:
Longstone Tyres - De Tomaso Pantera page
Please let me know if you see any mistakes. Any pictures you have that might make it better please send them over.
Importantly if you may be interested in a set of the 285/50R15 P7 tyres please drop me a note via the "contact us" link so we can keep your email on file and use that collection of email addresses to convince Pirelli to make these tyres.