Good morning
Gentlemen could you give me details of the function of these parts? The function of the pipe at the level of the air filter? where it is connected, and their uses? Should I keep them? See the attached photos
thank you for your support
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The one with a wire connected is your temperature gauge sender and needs to remain.
Joe…. Nice write-up! You do good work!
Most comprehensive I’ve ever seen.
I would say the use of some of emissions equipment depends on whether you are running the Motorcraft 4300D carburetor, which 95%+ of USA cars are not.
Some of the other equipment depends on your distributor and air cleaner housing…
Rocky
Thank you for your technical support so if I understand correctly I have to check the reference of my carburetor + my air filter system so that you can guide me. I will send you the photos tomorrow. Thank you all to help me.
willy
Messieurs, je joins 2 photos des pièces sur lesquelles je recherche des informations. Une partie montée sur la pompe à eau et l'autre partie montée sur le tuyau au-dessus de la pompe à eau. Sachant que je n'ai pas de logement pour visser celui-ci sur ma nouvelle pipe ? Merci d'avance pour ton aide. willy
Sorry in English Oops!!! Gentlemen, I enclose 2 photos of the parts on which I am looking for information. One part mounted on the water pump and the other part mounted on the pipe above the water pump. Knowing that I have no housing to screw this one on my new pipe? Thanks in advance for your support. willy
Bonjour Willy,
Sur la photo du haut (tuyau au dessus de la pompe à eau), il s'agit de la vanne EPVS et sur la photo du bas (pompe à eau), il s'agit de vanne EGR. J'ai joint 2 images des branchements des ces 2 vannes (fonction des n° de châssis). La vanne EPVS réduit l'avance à l'allumage, de quelques degrés, quand le moteur est trop chaud.
Dear enthusiast
Attached are the photos with the reference of my carburettor currently setup on my Lady. I think it corresponds to F4 4300D so not good! What do you advise me knowing that I don't want to make it a racing car but with character despite everything, so can I simplify the system by changing the carburettor? if so which carburetor to buy? If I change the carburettor what will be the consequences? Or I keep my current carburettor, but what will be the constraints? My engine is original chassis THPNNE06974
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT
Is it your desire to keep the car stock? Are you after better performance or good fuel economy?
I want low end performance I would only drive on the road but I am not interested in keeping all the emissions system control ,.... Currently fitted to my car. WILLY
Gentlemen, I don't know if I should maintain this carburettor because its repair and operation seem very complicated to me.
Dear gentleman, no body would like to help and to advice me? Thank you in advance for your support. Willy
Bonjour Willy,
You can change your Motorcraft 4300D carburator by good ones: 650 CFM Holley (4150) or Eldelbrock (AVS2 series). Emissions controls EGR and EPVS are not necessary, just remove the valves and insert some plugs instead.
If you change your carburetor from the original one to a Holley etc, you will need to get a new intake manifold, or an adaptor with ovalised venturis to allow the new carb to fit and operate. If you change the intake manifold and want to maintain the original look, I suggest you get an aluminum one from Scott Cook in Australia (ask for the one that suits Panteras as it has a different angle on the flange that the carb bolts on to than for Falcons and Mustangs etc) and paint it the right colour blue. It will then appear to be an original intake manifold, complete with Ford symbols and part number cast in. The original air cleaner should also just fit under the original engine cover even with the 1-2 cm spacer that you will need to lift the aircleaner up to clear the fuel level adjustment screw/bolts on the top of the new carburetor - from your chassis number you should have the later raised centre engine cover. It will be worth all the hassle.
Cheers, Tim.
Tim Meyer also markets an intake for the 351C.
Pascal Tim, a mechanic in France advised me to replace a HOLLEY 4165 650cmf, what do you think of this solution, it's a good carb? What would that entail? gold has HOLLEY 4150 650cmf but he did not tell me that the modifications mentioned by Tim had to be made. carburettor to fit and work? do I also have to change the intake manifold if I choose one of these 2 carburettors?
If so, do you have any references for me? With pictures if possible!
THANKS willy
To be checked, but it should be possible to modify the original manifold to install a more modern carburettor.
Otherwise there is also the BlueThunder collector which is a replica of the Shelby of the time; once painted in blue the look is very close to the original.
The Holley 4165 650CFM should be fine, but will also have the same problems with the intake manifold. Your intake manifold should look just like one in the picture below if it is the original one. It has an aluminium thing on top for the EGR valve, which you wont need if you get rid of all the polution gear. But you can clearly see the shape and size of the ports, which are the same in the manifold itself. This is what is called a spread bore manifold for a spread bore carburetor. If you compare with how a Holley carb looks from the bottom, you see the problem immediately, it is a so-called square bore carb. The Holley carb wont be able to open as the throttle plates and the holes in your manifold don't line up. A cheaper solution than new intake manifold etc, is a quite thick aluminium spacer which is totally open, or has ovalised holes to allow the throttle plates to open. I have seen one of these ovalised adapters on a Longchamp, not sure if that is how De Tomaso did it at the factory.
Here is a short thread on the Scott Cook manifold: https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...lane-intake-manifold
You can see where the carb bolts on and the width of the holes and spacing to allow the square bore carb to operate (strictly speaking the holes only need to be round, not large elongations as you see in the thread). If you do go down the road of the Scott Cook intake, then just be aware that I think it only comes with so-called 3V ports (I am not sure if it also comes with 4V ports) on the head side. These are revised ports with optomised flow compared to the original manifold and other manifolds of the era and are slightly smaller than the 4V ports in your head. The reason for this is that ideally they can be combined with Scotts 3V style heads (made to appear identical to the original Ford heads), better cam etc to give vastly superior performance, but an engine that looks completely stock standard and original. The 3V ports will bolt up fine to your head and should give better torque and low to middle range performance due to the better airflow. I have the Scott Cook manifold on my Pantera with a standard iron head with 4V ports and I haven't had any problems. If you are dead set on having 4V ports on your intake manifold then I would suggest the Blue Thunder intake, as others have suggested here.
Cheers, Tim.
Great Tim I study you're solution.
Willy
With the machining possibilities available to you, it should not be difficult to modify the original manifold.
Obviously a new manifold will be more efficient but you put your finger in a dangerous gear, the race for power because "we" and you will quickly say to yourself that it is a shame to keep the original camshaft with a collector and a carb capable of doing much better and then even if it means putting in a more efficient cam, you have to change the rocker arms, etc, etc...
It is with this kind of progression that I found myself one day adding 200 hp to an engine that was already producing 420 when at the start I just wanted to replace the clutch which was worn.
More informations:
Detomaso put spread and square intake manifold depending the years, europeen or not, etc ... see thread: pantera.infopop.cc/topic/correct-carb-manifold-combo.
So, just look a your intake manifold to see if it's a spread or square.
Holley 4165 and 4175 are a spread bore carburetor, I think you can put on a Detomaso spread bore intake without any modification, to confirmed.......?
Pascal
I will send you a photos of a my intake manifold Monday.
Thank you for your support
Willy
DiPascal, please find attached the a photo of my carburetor an my intake manifold nber.
Willy
A D3ZE Photo of intake manifold, therefore????
Hi Willy -
I recall a discussion of cast manifolds by GeorgeP a couple years ago that described performance characteristics of them, but I was unable to locate it. I’ll keep looking.
https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...rb-spacer-question-1
In the post above George says there are no carb spacers that can effectively adapt square bore carbs (like Holleys) to the stock (spread bore) manifolds.
Rocky
Therefore, if I would like to change my carburetor 4300d I should change the intake manifold + the carburetor?
That is what I have done.
I am running the Blue Thunder manifold (for the Pantera), which sets the carburetor level, and a Holley 4150 (List # 4309, 735 CFM).
Some people say a 600-650 CFM carb will give you crisper throttle response at lower RPM.
Some of the vendors sell carbs already set up & tuned for our engines.
Rocky
A intake manifold 2v or 4v,
Hi Willy….
I was under the impression that the Blue Thunder has two configurations… one for the “general” Ford cars, and one for the Panteras. The Pantera configuration lets your carburetor sit levelin your car.
The 2V or 4V would depend on the heads you are using.
Regards -
Hi Willy,
All Pantera standard iron heads are 4V, Blue thunder intake manifold is a 4V and Scott cook dual plane manifold is 3V but you can, as timsteren said, put Scott 3V manifold on pantera heads without problemes, I also put an Scott manifold on standard iron heads but I enlarged the passages from 3V to 4V.
Cheaper than Blue thunder an Scott intake, there are the Edelbrock performer intake manifold.
D1ZX is a 4 V aluminium square bore intake manifold (X for alu), very rare, is not a Blue thunder one.
You have to disassemble the carburetor to check if it is a Mustang D3ZE or a Pantera GTS D3ZE intake manifold, on the Pantera GTS D3ZE there are enlargements of the secondaries ducts (eggs shapped). According to George Pence (see thread: pantera.infopop.cc/topic/correct-carb-manifold-combo), these enlargements allow a square carburetor fitment (holley 4777).....! with which spacer ?. For information: On my GTS (1979), before I switch for a Scott intake, I had a D3ZE intake manifold with enlargements of the secondaries ducts equipped with an Holley 600 CFM (4160) with a strange spacer (no reference on it and never seen before) but I don't know if it's original (see photo of my spacer).
If your D3ZE manifold is a mustang one (without secondaries enlargements), and you want to install a square bore carburetor, you need a spacer adapter like the Trans dapt 2199 but I don't know if it work well.
Thank you DiPascal
Willy
Dear attached my present carburetor with a dimensions and the intake manifold sizes.
Therefore what do you think?
Gentlemen
Its possible for me to machining the intake manifold!
An over photos of the intake manifold
Willy
Willy,
Your intake manifold it is a Mustang D3ZE (without eggs shaped) not a Pantera GTS D3ZE intake manifold (with eggs shaped), so if you want to install a squarebore Holley (4150 or 4160) or Edelbrock you have several choice for the intake manifold depending on price and therefore performances, I see at least 3 for a stock engine, in ascending order:
1) Machining your intake D3ZE to have at minimum a GTS egg shaped on secondary ducts but you have to find a spacer, to limit disturbances (like mine ...?) to go with. With the Holley carburetor, the spacer must have a minimum 1/2 in thickness for the passage of the throttle bracket, I don't know for the Edelbrock one. For the maching of the eggs shaped, carry out the same machining of the primary ducts with a diameter 43.2 mm (1.7in) and apply them to the the secondaries ducts with the same diameter and the same center distance 47.7 mm (1.88 in) and the distance center between primaries and secondaries are 46.2 mm (1.82 in) to have a square bore.
2) buy an Edelbrock intake performer 4V #2665
3) buy a Blue thunder or Scott cook intake manifold for pantera
+ buy a Holley or Edelbrock 650 CFM
For information, I looked at a Holley spread bore 4165 or 4175 and you cannot install on pantera intake manifold because the center distance of the primaries ducts are bigger.
another solution is to buy a D0AE-9425-L intake manifold (4V Square bore), there one to sell in england for 200 £ by Mark Sibley on facebook Detomaso parts/cars europe.
DiPascal
Thank you but with which carburetor?
Willy
The square bore manifold will fit any square bore carb (Holley 4150 / 4160) you select.
You have to decide if you want crisp lower RPM performance (600-650 CFM) or high RPM capability (700-850 CFM).
Will you be running your car at LeMans or Spa?
Rocky
