My ($175-total invested) rebuilt original struts failed completely Sunday. I went to a car show, raised the decklid, left it raised for the duration of the show, lowered it and drove home sixty miles in 95 degree heat. They acted just fine.

Next morning, both struts are totally dead. No push at all. Maybe the engine bay heat toasted them? Before all I had to do was push the button and the lid would gently rise all by itself. Now they resist my efforts to raise.

I'm not throwing any more $ at the originals. I did some searching around the forum for aftermarket recommendations and can't really find anything conclusive.

Is there anyone who's happy with whatever substitute they've found recently that they would pass along a recommendation on?

I've got a wingless lid.

Thanks in advance.
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Original Post
I tried to have my originals done and found out that the rods have to be almost perfect to pull it off. These people did a new set for me and they work just great. The lid stays just where you leave it. Stephen is familar with Pantera deck lids. Try him at:
http://www.lstechnologies.ca/
John
From prior posts both here and on the DeTomaso Mail List...

NAPA part # BK(Belkamp) 819-5207 (replacement lift struts for a Dodge Omni)
Compressed length of 10.34", extended length of 16.77"
They work great according to a post on the mail list.
Larry Finch reports that he has them on his car and "the function is fine. Holds up my no-wing lid just fine, closes easily, doesn't seem to be too firm. Probably not strong enough for a winged lid. No information on strength (pounds) of force." Larry's on this board, so you can contact him directly for any additional questions.

Note: The NAPA catalog image shows this to have different fittings at each end, but this is incorrect. Both ends have the correct flat plate with a hole needed for our application. Total cost for two - $40.36


Autozone #95004
Source: http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6450045562...850090805#2850090805


SACHS North America SG314005
Coz reported that these shocks will hold with or without a wing. "I took 4 pairs for some of the guys to Vegas this year and use them myself. And I was just corrected, they are $20.90 each."


I have not tried any of the above referenced parts myself as my car still wears its original decklid struts (which work only on warm days).
NAPA part # BK(Belkamp) 819-5207 (replacement lift struts for a Dodge Omni)work great. The only thing that bothers me is the oval hole. It allows a slight movement of the shock. Has anyone solved the issue.

Thanks
Dave
# 3463 has the Autozone # 95004. Application is for the 1987 - 1994 Dodge Shadow w/o spoiler. We made our own spacers for the top attachment out of aluminum which were required for this application. They are the best struts I have ever seen, worked with or have.
quote:
Originally posted by BOXXBOYS:
# 3463 has the Autozone # 95004. Application is for the 1987 - 1994 Dodge Shadow w/o spoiler. We made our own spacers for the top attachment out of aluminum which were required for this application. They are the best struts I have ever seen, worked with or have.

Okay,
I got the D95004s..BUT they seem to be about 3/4" too long and I (with all my might)can NOT compress them? Any ideas.
quote:
Originally posted by TomCat:
quote:
Originally posted by BOXXBOYS:
# 3463 has the Autozone # 95004. Application is for the 1987 - 1994 Dodge Shadow w/o spoiler. We made our own spacers for the top attachment out of aluminum which were required for this application. They are the best struts I have ever seen, worked with or have.

Okay,
I got the D95004s..BUT they seem to be about 3/4" too long and I (with all my might)can NOT compress them? Any ideas.


Okay...I'm done! If you un-attach BOTH (original) struts you can "hyper extend" the back hatch to allow for easy installation of the new struts.

As for the elongated holes (in the Auto Zone brand), I cut about 3/4" long piece of 1/4" fuel line and stuffed/centered it through the elongated holes...as a kind of spacer/gasket.
This seemed to take up all the slack and allowed for some (silent) flexibility in the mounting.
All these being mentioned, are any of them gloss or simigloss? I am looking for gloss, to keep everything shiny in the engine bay Smiler

I still have the Detomoso brand as shown below, however they are pretty stiff. It has not caused a problem yet, and I suppose if they are built for a wing and non wing car, then the actual pressure on the decklid and engine bay hinge is the same, wing or not.

About hyperextending your deck lid, watch out! you could drive the top of your deck lid into the body of the car, so just watch that area if you are doing that.

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quote:
Originally posted by DOES 200:
All these being mentioned, are any of them gloss or simigloss? I am looking for gloss, to keep everything shiny in the engine bay Smiler

I still have the Detomoso brand as shown below, however they are pretty stiff. It has not caused a problem yet, and I suppose if they are built for a wing and non wing car, then the actual pressure on the decklid and engine bay hinge is the same, wing or not.

About hyperextending your deck lid, watch out! you could drive the top of your deck lid into the body of the car, so just watch that area if you are doing that.


Auto Zone Option
1) Gloss-Shaft is "polished", housing is glossy black...and there is a little blue warning sticker that actually nearly "matches" the FORD Blue on my motor.
2) Hyper-extending...excellent point. I had a helper (my Wife) hold the hatch and move it quite slowly while I watched the interference and only opened it until it lined up with the holes in the gas strut.

BE CAREFUL!
Tom
Autozone # 95004
Shock is Gloss Black, holds the decklid in any posistion, sturdy, etc. See the next 2 posts for the close-ups of the aluminum bushings Steve turned for the exact fit. Some type of standard spacer could probably be found(?).

Dave # 3463

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Great pictures.
Your set-up makes mine look amatuerish.
I also decided (even though I know better) that I liked piston "up" vs piston "down".

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quote:
Originally posted by TomCat:
Great pictures.
Your set-up makes mine look amatuerish.
I also decided (even though I know better) that I liked piston "up" vs piston "down".

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That's the consensus. Piston down will keep dust from landing on the seal area and getting dragged into the strut when you close the lid (compress the piston).
quote:
Originally posted by larryw:
That's the consensus. Piston down will keep dust from landing on the seal area and getting dragged into the strut when you close the lid (compress the piston).

Agreed...water/rain, dust, etc...
I just like the "reciever" being fixed in place.
And Many of these cars do not see that much inclement conditions!
Thanks for the info about LST. My struts are still perfect, but as soon as they aren't I want those stainless ones!
Thanks Tom for the gloss autozone 95004, they look nice. I will need to check those puppies out. The Detomoso ones that Wilkinson and most sell are pretty stiff, although they say no one ever had problems with them. If I go with the autozone and get those detomoso off, I will get da wifes bathroom scale out and measure the pressure of deto and autozone by using the scale on my 4 post lift to compress them.
Mine are DeTomaso's that I bought from Brian Graham. My car has a wing and they lift it fine.
I don't remember them being too pricey. My car had nothing when I bought it so they were my first purchase.
After 4 years they still work great.
quote:
Originally posted by DOES 200:
Thanks Tom for the gloss autozone 95004, they look nice. If I go with the autozone and get those detomoso off, I will get da wifes bathroom scale out and measure the pressure of deto and autozone by using the scale on my 4 post lift to compress them.


I could NOT compress the Auto Zone by hand (weight) but the rear deck SEEMS nicely balanced (1973 with the small "Ferrari 308 spoiler"). When I removed my worn original styruts, I could compress them using my weight...~183 pounds
quote:
Originally posted by DOES 200:
Thanks Tom for the gloss autozone 95004.

Dang, autozone by me don't have the 95004, and search on the autozone website by part 95004 doesn't seem to show anything. Maybe no longer avaliable. My 4 car has BOGE K437G, which seem the right strength too, so maybe those are avaliable somewhere.
http://www.autozone.com/home.htm
quote:
Originally posted by TomCat:
Mighty-Lift D95004

Thanks TomCat, you are great. I will try and get me some.
quote:
Originally posted by DOES 200:
quote:
Originally posted by TomCat:
Mighty-Lift D95004

Thanks TomCat, you are great. I will try and get me some.

I'm just trying to pay back ALL the help I get from you guys!
Let me know WHEN you get them ($14.95) and put them on.
Here we go again!

I have the NAPA deck shocks, installed this spring because of a failure of the OEM shocks.

I have been concerned with the pressure required to close the deck. The pistons are pointing down. The shock pressure increases as the closing of the deck gets closer to the latch. I also have an issue with the deck lid not fully opening, by about an inch. I believe it is due to the "slop" created by the oblong mounting holes, both ends. I even fabricated spacers to try to solve the issue. Though I am concerned mostly about the pressure.

I contacted Wilkinson. Bill was very nice and explained the NAPA shocks create the most pressure in the closed position. He said they have seen numerous deck lids damaged (bent) and deck lid hinges and pins warped with these shocks due the pressure exerted by the NAPA (Belcamp & Omni shocks). The shock (NAPA style)pressure is maxed in the closed position, exerting a constant amount of pressure on the deck lid.

Bill advised their replacemnt shock has the correct pressure and it is maxed in the open position. He also said he it will not make any difference on the NAPA shocks to have the piston up or down, same pressure.

Bill said a new deck lid is $5,400.00 !

I do not see any reason to screw around trying to save $45-50 and risk damage. I don't believe he would set any sales records for a pair of shocks costing about $90.00. I felt his advice was sincere. His also comes with the hardware.

We all like to save money but the possible consequences do not seem to be worth the risk. I will let you know how they work after installation.

IndyDave
Last edited by indydave
quote:
Bill advised their replacemnt shock has the correct pressure and it is maxed in the open position. He also said he it will not make any difference on the NAPA shocks to have the piston up or down, same pressure.



While I would not disagree that the vendors have likely done their homework/trials to come up with the correct pressure shock, I fail to see how a gas shock that is designed to hold the decklid open can be at max pressure in it's extended form. As the piston is forced back in the shock the gas will be under higher pressure i.e. in the closed position. Using the same deckild/body mounting points (bending moments) then nothing much has changed other than you have a gas strut that a vendor is standing behind to be of corrrect pressure for your application.

Did they ask you if you had a wing or fiberglass/CF decklid? All of these factors would affect the recommended pressure shock to use.
Julian, I understand your point & it makes sense. I did not think of that when I was speaking with Wilkinson. I did tell Wilkinson that I do not have a wing.

The pressure to close my deck is HUGE.
Bill advised their replacemnt shock has the correct pressure and it is maxed in the open position. He also said he it will not make any difference on the NAPA shocks to have the piston up or down, same pressure.

The aim of mounting the shock with the piston down is to maintain the shock's seal in good condition. He correctly stated that it will have no effect on the pressure.
Interesting perspectives. The other week I ended up purchasing the Mighty-Lift D95004 that I show in my posts above (maybe same as NAPA?). I purchased these because I felt the Wilkenson style (Detomoso) struts felt pretty stiff. However, I admit the Detomaso ones are more stiff with the hood open and real soft in the spot to latch the hood when shut (I thought maybe that was just due to hood leverage, but maybe not). I asked Wilkenson about those Detomaso struts about a year ago, and he said he has never had any problem with those Detomaso struts damaging any hood. So, I may end up leaving the Detomaso on the car in the end, now that I see these posts. Looking at both struts however, the Detomaso are larger diameter though, so I was assuming stronger.

In regards to car with wing or not, I don't think it should make any difference, since the same strut pressure is on the hood when you are closing the hood with our without wing (without wing you just need more hand pressure on the hood). Wilkinson only sells the one same set strength Detomaso for wing or no wing.

Maybe someday someone will measure some of these strut options on a scale and report back the extended and contracted pressures. If I had mine out of the car I could measure them with my 4 post lift to contract them and a bathroom scale.
For what its worth, you can actually check what you've got in terms of upward pressure. Take a deck-shock off, set it up in a press with a bathroom scales under the shock. If when you press the extended shaft down an inch and the pressure is over 110lbs, your decklid and hinges are at risk of bending. Most of the vendors will not sell a shock with over 110 lbs of pressure- and remember you got two of those suckers! My vendor-shocks for non-winged cars are 70 lbs each. For those with big heavy wings on their decklids, no deck-shocks will reliably hold it open. I like one vendor's slotted tube that is as long as the extended shock shaft, fits around the shaft, touches the deck on one end & the shock body on the other, so acts like a prop, without having to carry a mop handle around. Only one is needed. And it fits in the glove box when you're moving.
quote:
I like one vendor's slotted tube that is as long as the extended shock shaft, fits around the shaft, touches the deck on one end & the shock body on the other, so acts like a prop, without having to carry a mop handle around. Only one is needed. And it fits in the glove box when you're moving.

I made mine out of PVC tubing. I just ground a slot in it to fit snugly over the shock shaft.
Jeff
This post made me do some research. I have kept track of every single part I have replaced - and I have replaced most of this car over the past 20 years.

I could not find a single notation of decklid struts. I looked at old pics of the car from when I first got it all the way up to the latest pics from last week. And yup, they are same old original struts in every pic.

In 20 years they have never failed. Not once. Even with a big delta wing, it opens with simple push of the button and effortlessly pops open almost by itself. And it stay like that as long as I leave it, sometimes for days.

Closing it is also a snap. It glides closed with a very light pressure and clicks shut.

I don't even know what kind of struts they are. Are these magical Detomaso struts? Am I just lucky? Or what?
Well, here is the first measurement on a brand, if anyone wants to add more brands. I measured one strut using my 4 post lift as a press with a scale under it.

Mighty-Lift D95004:
1" compressed = 96 lb
4" compressed = 105 lb
6" combressed = 108 lb

I did not put the Mighty-Lift on my car yet. I still have the Detomaso sold by many on my car, below is a link to the one from Wilkenson. I would be real interested in the pressure of these Detomaso struts.
http://www.panterapartsusa.com...l.cgi?prod_id=18126A


To continue with this post by adding more pressure measurements of other struts, I just measured the Detomaso 18126A brand from Wilkinson and here are the pressure specs:

1/2 to 1" compressed = 120 lb (this is what it took to make it start to compress).
2" to full compression gradually increased from the 120 to 160 near full compression.
Last edited by does200
Wilkinson deck lid shocks are great. The pressure is excellent. Much, much better than the NAPA unit. The fittings are not an after thought! Sorry for the poor pictures of the top fitting. The lower is similar. They fit perfectly!

Dave

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I put on a set of DeTomaso struts last week. Only issue was I found they were about ¾ in too long so it took a little ingenuity to close the (A BFH on a car jack, to push the bottom of pre-mounted shock on top) and someone to hold the deck. The car is late 6000 series with a Delta wing; Total deck & wing weight is 80 lbs; I noticed different mounting set-up on vehicles in Kingston last week-end, so set-up may be a bit different from car to car. I suggest you tape the front corners of the lid and C-pilar should the lid ever over extend and hit.
Hey Dave, I see you have the Detomaso shocks non installed. While you have them out, please measure the pressure of one of them on a press or lift like I did. Or maybe you could figure how to sit on one and measure on the scale on the bottom, without it giving a metal enema.
TOO LATE!
Sorry I can't measure the pressure, I already installed the shocks.

They are stiffer than the old & weak OEM shocks, as expected. I'm sure the old shocks were not a standard for the pressure. These shocks have superb mounting hardware as well.

I would definitely buy them again. They took a lot of pressure off of the deck as compared to the NAPA shock. The NAPA shock is very good quality- BUT they are designed for a different, non Pantera application. The Wilkinson shock is designed for the Pantera.
quote:
Originally posted by Indy Dave/4604:
TOO LATE!
Sorry I can't measure the pressure, I already installed the shocks.

They are stiffer than the old & weak OEM shocks, as expected. I'm sure the old shocks were not a standard for the pressure. These shocks have superb mounting hardware as well.

I would definitely buy them again. They took a lot of pressure off of the deck as compared to the NAPA shock. The NAPA shock is very good quality- BUT they are designed for a different, non Pantera application. The Wilkinson shock is designed for the Pantera.

I like the fit and appearance of the Detomaso as well that Wilkinson sells. In my opinion they still seem stiff, but maybe I am just getting old. If you didn't throw those NAPA out the window maybe measure the pressure on those and post it. I gave lb specs on the Mighty-Lift D95004 above, so the NAPA may be of interest to some as well.
quote:
Originally posted by DOES 200:
I see you have the Detomaso shocks non installed. While you have them out, please measure the pressure of one of them on a press or lift like I did.


I have the DeTomaso shocks as well. I took one off last night because I've been trying to figure out why my decklid sits perfect on the passenger side, but is raised by close to a 1/2" on the driver's side. Pix to follow ...

The weird thing is that once I removed the shock on the driver's side, my decklid now rests perfectly parallel to the body. I think it's up a little high, but at least it's straight.

Anyway, I'll try to measure the pressure of the shock. I can tell you that it takes nearly all of my weight to compress it on the ground (and I weigh 175lbs). I'm thinking that this shock is exerting more force that the other, which is why my lid is raised on the driver's side when closed ...
Erik,

Did you try swapping the shocks side-to-side to see if it changes things?

Are you sure that the rear bumper stops are adjusted properly? It looks like the left one is too high. The rear latch should be able to pull the whole rear edge into alignment if the stops are the right heights. At least that's the way it is on my car.



Mark
Hey Mark.

I have not tried taking the passenger shock off yet. I am already anticipating a major battle to get the driver's side one back on! Mad

As for the bumper stops, I have removed them before (without result) and have them out again now. Have a look at the pix below; it's weird how (with the driver's side shock and the bumper stops both out) the lid now sits level - albeit a little higher than I would like. Perhaps I will see if the latch will adjust things lower ...

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quote:
Originally posted by larryw:
Erik,

I like the little bumpers you've got that keep the deck lid edge from bashing into the body with the resulting paint chipping. Simple solution to a pesky problem.

I went down to the shop to do the same to mine and found I didn't have that little triangular bit on my decklid for them to bear on, but I'm going to come up with something.

Another item for this winter's TTD list.

Larry,

Check with the vendors, they sold a kit for this.

Michael
On the decklid metal piece, may need to weld and repaint. All cars being restored thould add that part:

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quote:
Originally posted by Indy Dave/4604:
Wilkinson has a November special price on decklid struts, $60.00, includes hardware.

Anyone measured the pressure on those DeTomaso shocks yet? I just heard that Mikes imaculate blue Group 4 had those on it, and it damaged his hood while at Cars & Coffee in S. CA. Someone said it damaged the decklid at the shock area with a huge dent.
Can you check that claim (Wilkinson)?
If true, it would be the first according to Wilkinson. I am interested in hearing what you found.
Thanks
quote:
Originally posted by Indy Dave/4604:
Can you check that claim (Wilkinson)?
If true, it would be the first according to Wilkinson. I am interested in hearing what you found.
Thanks

Hey dave. Mike usually takes his car to Byars. Sometimes I see Mike at our Cars & Coffee. If he is there I will sure enough ask about it. But the Pantera dudes at C&C saw it, maybe he has pics. Here is his car below.

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Should have read all there was to read about deck lid struts. But I had money due at Precision Proformance, so I just ordered them, no wing. When I got them I found that I couldn't press it together, even with my weight almost. Then I read the postings and got worried. They're marked DeTomaso C16-17702 18126A, have anybody had the guts to install them, and are they working (meaning keeping deck up and not tearing it apart?)
Well, anything marked DeTomaso has to be correct, right? I have those same 18126A shocks that Byars and Wilkinson sell. Both of them state that they have not experienced any bad issues with those shocks. I admit, they are stiff, especially when warm after a drive warming up the engine bay. Byars indicated to me that these are good shocks because the pressure is very low on the shocks & decklid when it is closed, whereas other aftermarket do not have that feature. This is why I stuck with the DeTomaso 18126A instead of putting on my aftermarket ones that I bought. Now that you have the DeTomaso 18126A, is there anyway you could push them down on a scale to measure the pressure like I did with these others in my post below? I did some measurements with the pressure of my 4 post lift on top of the shock with a scale under it. You could probably do the same with a floor jack against something solid with the shock and scale between. Once and for all, lets find the pressure of these DeTomaso shocks.

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...562/m/1240000755/p/4
My electronic scale was not easy to deal with, but most results were 45kg for 1 inch, meaning 100lbs/in, right? Occasionally it showed 55kg, meaning more than 115lbs/in.
Last edited by noquarter
quote:
Originally posted by No Quarter:
My electronic scale was not easy to deal with, but most results were 45kg for 1 inch, meaning 100lbs/in, right? Occasionally it showed 55kg, meaning moren than 115lbs/in.

Well, now at least we have some comparrisons to other shock strengths, but what is good and what is bad I don't know. I wish shocks would come with pressure ratings. And on top of this, Byars indicated to me that pressure on shocks should be almost nill when the decklid is closed, which is why they like the DeTomaso vs any of the aftermarket which don't do that. This is the reason I left my stiff DeTomaso 18126A on the car rather than use the aftermarket I bought. Only thing I hope is that Pantera vendors back up their material if something occurs with a part they sell. So if your hood or roof happens to bend, then Pantera vendors should cover the repair cost. However, if you went with an aftermarket shock on your own with guessing game strategy, such as PepBoys or whatever and then something happens, the bill should be yours for repairing any damage. All I know is what I have been told, and that is no DeTomaso 18126A has ever caused any problems.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DOES 200:
Well, here is the first measurement on a brand, if anyone wants to add more brands. I measured one strut using my 4 post lift as a press with a scale under it.

Mighty-Lift D95004:
1" compressed = 96 lb
4" compressed = 105 lb
6" combressed = 108 lb

I did not put the Mighty-Lift on my car yet. I still have the Detomaso sold by many on my car, below is a link to the one from Wilkenson. I would be real interested in the pressure of these Detomaso struts.
http://www.panterapartsusa.com...l.cgi?prod_id=18126A



To continue with this post by adding more pressure measurements of other struts, I just measured the Detomaso 18126A brand from Wilkinson and here are the pressure specs:

1/2 to 1" compressed = 120 lb (this is what it took to make it start to compress).
2" to full compression gradually increased from the 120 to 160 near full compression.
Bought a pair from Wilkinsons in July, works excellent even with a wing spoiler.
Had my originals struts rebuilt, not worth it, didn't last long and waste of money.
Highly recommend buying the Wilkinson struts, will fit perfect.
Good list of pressures. FWIW, at least one vendor told me that deck struts over 110 lbs when fully extended will bend the roof over time, and even then are only for winged cars. He won't sell the heavy ones, instead recommending a strut lock on one side to hold up really heavy decklids. For fiberglas decklids, one lighter strut may be better than two really light struts as they don't closely match pressures anyway. Be very sure the extended lengths are correct as well; too long and the decklid edge will touch the roof. Too short and your forehead will find the decklid edge or the corners! Finally, the various years have different decklid attach areas with different size bolts and bushings, and most of these aftermarket struts have replaceable rod ends that unscrew.
quote:
Originally posted by DOES 200:
... below is a link to the one from Wilkenson. I would be real interested in the pressure of these Detomaso struts.
http://www.panterapartsusa.com...l.cgi?prod_id=18126A

To continue with this post by adding more pressure measurements of other struts, I just measured the Detomaso 18126A brand from Wilkinson and here are the pressure specs:

1/2 to 1" compressed = 120 lb (this is what it took to make it start to compress).
2" to full compression gradually increased from the 120 to 160 near full compression.


I have the Wilkenson struts on my cat. Over time, I have noticed that the driver side strut has (as Jack warns) begun to lift my decklid to the point where it touches the roof line. Not good.

So, I removed the strut and (less scientifically) used all my weight (I'm 180 lbs) to BARELY compress the strut. This now has me looking at alternatives. The strut remains on my work bench (and will stay there) ...
Now I am concerned. A few years ago I replaced both botom shock brackets. One is a little lower. So I am thinking of replacing both again and doing a better alignment. Any tips on where to buy the brackets. The last ones were $35 ea from Bobby Byers. Nice stainless brackets,no complaints. This tread is getting more interesting each day. If the Wilkinson shocks are too stiff, what should we use for a wingless deck?
Dave
It took a while doing it all by myself with the hood supported through rope to the rafters, but I was able to put the Mighty-Lift D95004 on the car. They were taller so I really had to watch for over extending the hood. I kept a slim cardboard/paper piece between the hinge and decklid body and kept testing to ensure I could still move the cardboard. Near the end of it all the cardboard got a little snug to tugg on it, so that shows I was damn close with the decklid to the hige. Now I can lift my hood with one hand, exactly the right pressure in my opinion. Autozone, $14.50 each. There is probably nothing wrong with the Detomaso ones I had on there, but these are spot on for me.

Mighty-Lift D95004:
1" compressed = 96 lb
4" compressed = 105 lb
6" combressed = 108 lb
Last edited by does200
Put on a pair of Autozone D95004's I bought today and my decklid will not stay open. So it is possibly either the Dodge Shadow with spoiler strut or the DeTomaso 18126A's to the rescue.
Any one else have that problem with the D95004's?
quote:
Originally posted by Terry:
I just installed these NAPA part # BK(Belkamp) 819-5207 (replacement lift struts for a Dodge Omni) Works Great!!


How much?
HI ALL. I have a NEW set of decklid shocks from HALL PANTERA never installed. See COLLECTABLES
section for description / pricing and other items.
THANKS JOHN [ svnt4pantera@aol.com ]
quote:
Originally posted by bdud:
Put on a pair of Autozone D95004's I bought today and my decklid will not stay open. So it is possibly either the Dodge Shadow with spoiler strut or the DeTomaso 18126A's to the rescue.
Any one else have that problem with the D95004's?

Bdud, those D95004's should work, or maybe you are in really cold country as all these struts act a little weaker when colder. Why don't you rig up a little pressure test on them if you get them off the car. Just rig one strut between a jack, bathroom scale and something solid to push against, and watch the scale when you begin to jack it and the strut begins to compress. Did the strut have a blue label on it with numbers? I am in upstate NY for the week so I can't look at my label at the moment and can't recall the numbers on it (I ordered D95004's from Autozone, but I am not sure if the strut blue label on them actually had the D95004 number on it or not).
Finally got around to installing my DeTomaso C16-17702 18126A set. They seem to work OK, they open the lid by themselves in 3 seconds, and I can just push it down again and close it with the small finger on one hand. Guess that's OK
Do you guys use some sort of lubricant on your decklid shocks? I noticed mine just got quite stiff when closing "and" when also opening the decklid. Usually with these D95004 brand it took one finger on the hood to guide up and down with the hood. A couple weeks ago I applied some grease and after a few up and down of the hood, it was back to normal easy slide. But now two weeks later it was kind of stiff again, ready for more grease, in which it slid better again after applying more grease and working the hood. Maybe WD40 or something else would be better, or last longer?
...Use Teflon Grease! Does Not Freeze, Won't Dry-Out! WD-40 will EAT the Rubber Seals, and will evaporate after awhile!...
Last edited by marlinjack
quote:
Originally posted by MARLIN JACK:
...Use Teflon Grease! Does Not Freeze, Won't Dry-Out! WD-40 will EAT the Rubber Seals, and will evaporate after awhile!...

Thanks. Looks like I need the teflon stuff. I used Sta-Lube moly grease, but it doens't seem to last very long.

Sta-Lube: hydroxy lithium base plus moly disulfide, graphite and extreme pressure additives. The best multi-purpose grease to use for automotive and industrial applications.
http://www.crcindustries.com/a...l.aspx?PN=SL3141&S=N

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I got to this post late so I don't know if anyone still needs a good shock system but i put on a rear decklid shock kit that works great. It lifts my decklid with the wing without any problem and it relieves a huge amount of pressure on the body. I bought it from Mark Johnson [mjohnson@ipsco.org]. He makes alot of after market parts for the Pantera and his work is the best.

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I just installed the same set on my cat. I was looking for something that would work with my 180 degree headers. Installation was straight forward and I am very happy with the results.
Pfffw, all this reading on decklid struts, and now I still don't know which I should buy...

Tried to find me some in Belgium, but so far without luck - wasn't expecting it would be that hard to find me such struts down here... :-/
quote:
Originally posted by Kid:
Pfffw, all this reading on decklid struts, and now I still don't know which I should buy...

Tried to find me some in Belgium, but so far without luck - wasn't expecting it would be that hard to find me such struts down here... :-/

My group 4 car has BOGE and I see a number 437G on them, which I believe they have these struts overseas. These have a real good feel to them, although the ones on my black car (Autozone D95004) are about right too for correct pressure.
quote:
Originally posted by 4NHOTROD:
Wing or no wing? Can you get Napa parts there? Will


Have currently a teeny weeny "wing", but that's on the long term subject to change (I have the intention to get rid of the wing).


I'm not sure whether the current (dead) struts are still the originals, but they are huge, which made the parts dealers I did visit think it were suspension shocks... Over time someone did paint them, so can't see any partnumber or thelike on them.

I read the Wilkinsons are good, later on they are not, I read the originals (the 18126A's) are good, later on they are not, PIM sells them, etc... Confused I don't want to go for the IPSCO modification set for sure - don't like to drill extra holes, and see the original attachement points being unused, nor do I have plans to go for 180° headers.

NAPA will be a no go over here, but BOGE does indeed ring a bell... I could wait until I'm in the US again (which I was only a couple of weeks ago, but too little time to get into buying car parts), and check out NAPA or Autozone, but I'd like to have new struts, the sooner the better... Big Grin Roll Eyes

Now I have an idea of what pressure needed, it might make the search easier too though.
Last edited by kid
Hey Kid, You haven't introduced your car to us. I see an early pushbutton car there. Tell us about it (in a new thread)

regards
Denis
quote:
Originally posted by Kid:
quote:
Originally posted by 4NHOTROD:
Wing or no wing? Can you get Napa parts there? Will


Have currently a teeny weeny "wing", but that's on the long term subject to change (I have the intention to get rid of the wing).

I'm not sure whether the current (dead) struts are still the originals, but they are huge, which made the parts dealers I did visit think it were suspension shocks... Over time someone did paint them, so can't see any partnumber or thelike on them.

I read the Wilkinsons are good, later on they are not, I read the originals (the 18126A's) are good, later on they are not, PIM sells them, etc... Confused I don't want to go for the IPSCO modification set for sure - don't like to drill extra holes, and see the original attachement points being unused, nor do I have plans to go for 180° headers.

NAPA will be a no go over here, but BOGE does indeed ring a bell... I could wait until I'm in the US again (which I was only a couple of weeks ago, but too little time to get into buying car parts), and check out NAPA or Autozone, but I'd like to have new struts, the sooner the better... Big Grin Roll Eyes

Now I have an idea of what pressure needed, it might make the search easier too though.

As for pressure ratings, I did some pressure measurements as noted earlier, but this is how I would line things up:
(1) the Autozone D95004 seem to be just the right pressure allowing the hood to remain open (you even have to add about a finger of pressure to guide it upward somewhat when opening the hood).
(2) the BOGE 437G by feel opening and closing the hood seems to be the next higher pressure (I never had these out to measure pressure though).
(3) the DeTomaso 18126A seem to be the highest pressure, hold onto your hood if you get these after you pop your hood open as the pressure causes the hood to raise real quick. Wilkinson says he never had issues with owners of these struts, so they are probably ok pressure, but they were just a little strong for my comfort level especially on a hot run where they seem to get even stronger (probably like any struts).

Very nice looking car you have, I really like how the exhaust sits real close to the body/bumpers if that is no issue with heat & paint.
quote:
Originally posted by Denis C:
Hey Kid, You haven't introduced your car to us. I see an early pushbutton car there. Tell us about it (in a new thread)

regards
Denis


That thread does exist Wink

Still need to update it though...
Must missed that one. WELCOME. A few different things on your car still verry niicce....

Denis
Ok, got me new shocks (from PPC), but not too happy with them. They are about half an inch longer than the old (original?) ones, and the heads a bit too big, so I can't get the bolts properly in. And now I do have new shocks around, I can really feel myself how much pressure is needed to push them in, and that pressure feels like huge. Don't like the idea of having constantly that much extra stress on the bodywork, especially concentrated on such a little area...

Have to think things over again, and look for an other solution...




quote:
Originally posted by MARLIN JACK:
...Use Teflon Grease! Does Not Freeze, Won't Dry-Out! WD-40 will EAT the Rubber Seals, and will evaporate after awhile!...

Damn things still tending to get stiff when opening the hood after a few days of sitting. That Sta-lube moly-graph lube seems to be the best at unfrezing them. I couldn't find an actual teflon grease, but got teflon grease spray and for some reason that really locked the hood almost shut after a couble of days. I even tried a lithium silicone grease, but nothing seems to work well after a few days of sitting. When I finally get the decklid open, the rods are dry as hell, with grease on the upper and bottom portions of the rod. Once I get a little greas on the rods again, then a few up and down motions get it going smooth as butta again. What the hey, don't know why it is all of a sudden doing all this. I never lube my other shocks and there is no problem with them. Maybe the internals went funky or too tight or something. So may go get some new ones again.
quote:
Ok, got me new shocks (from PPC), but not too happy with them. They are about half an inch longer than the old (original?) ones, and the heads a bit too big, so I can't get the bolts properly in. And now I do have new shocks around, I can really feel myself how much pressure is needed to push them in, and that pressure feels like huge. Don't like the idea of having constantly that much extra stress on the bodywork, especially concentrated on such a little area...

Have to think things over again, and look for an other solution...


From the picture, it looks to me that they are the same length and if longer by 1/2", it should still be OK.
The heads are too big? Open the bracket up a small amount and the shock head will fit in. From the picture, it looks like you need to open it about 1mm??
I find it hard to beleive that a vendor would send you shocks that don't work.
Will
The heads are too big in that sense that they do fit in the brackets, but the end of the heads do touch the lid, and then the hole in the head does not align with both the hole at the outside of the bracket, and the threaded hole in the lid. Sure, I can make the hole in the outer side of the bracket bigger, but then still there is no way to get the bolt in the threaded hole. After all, there is no way to simply replace the threaded hole in the lid...

quote:
Originally posted by 4NHOTROD:
I find it hard to beleive that a vendor would send you shocks that don't work.
Will


They sure will work for others, but do not really fit MY car. Btw, I don't blame the vendor for selling me things that don't just fit they way they should, in my opinion it is rather a specific car related issue. If I really want, I can force a bolt in on the right side, but at the left side, the misalignment is even bigger, so no way to get a bolt in. It's related to being a handbuild lid I guess...

I'll just go for an other solution.
Its a shame you're not willing go use the IPSCO setup. It appears to address all your concerns. I just received mine. Very nice setup. I intend to cut off the stock mounts (might leave the ones on the deck lid).
quote:
Originally posted by Husker:
Its a shame you're not willing go use the IPSCO setup. It appears to address all your concerns. I just received mine. Very nice setup. I intend to cut off the stock mounts (might leave the ones on the deck lid).


Well, to be honest, I've been thinking about going for that set-up after all... Roll Eyes
I got a new set of Autozone D95004 since these were perfect when I bought them, but some how got stiff and I almost have to grease them daily in order to open and shut the decklid. Doing it alone again, and replacing the same length struts I thought I could just hold up the hood like this shown in the photo and change one strut at a time. I whittled the top of the wood like Jed Clampet so that it fits just right in that upper latch grove which is pretty deep, and the bottom of the wood I have a metal reinforcment so that the wood will not split if too much pressure. After I load the back end with blankets and towels, does anyone see issues with trying to change the struts this way? When I change one strut, I would suspect the decklid would drop slightly on the side I took it out (even with this middle support), so I was thinking of putting the wood on the corner instead with good cushining of course. But the more cushining I use, that allows the hood to drop more slightly when I get the strut out, so that may not be as good as doing solid wood in the middle like shown. I am just being careful since the hood strut is real close to the hood and if the hood drops even slightly at the moment I get the strut bolt out...ouch! I think what is really needed is some type of support right at the strut area to hold that in place when the stut bold comes out, since holding the hood from anywhere on the back end still alows the strut area to drop somewhat. Having someone hold it can be dicy too, since you could over extend the hood into the paint...I have a fraction of an inch space there.

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Last edited by does200
I ended up using the one wood in the middle and also one on the sides to change out the struts. Worked ok, except that the left strut space on the car seems smaller than the right, so I had to raise the hood to a significant degree on the left side in order to get that strut in, all the time measuring the space between decklid and car with a piece of manila folder...was tight but worked ok with just enough space before paint hit paint (again with wife assistance to slightly raise the hood Smiler). The old right strut had some leaking at the bottom, but I don't see why that would make the hood become stiff on the up and down motion. Maybe extreme heat in the engine bay changed the struts over the past year or so...who knows, we will see how these new ones do. I plan on trying no lube this time, maybe that screwed them up, not sure. I use no lube on my other two cars and no issues whatsoever for several years now. I am glad to get those off there, I could hardly raise the hood after it sat a day or so untill I applied loads of lube to make it move again, but that got old having to do that every couple days or so.
quote:
Originally posted by Cyboman:
It's very important when using a piece of wood to make sure it's properly calibrated!

Michael

Ha ha, thats true, and here is my precision whittlin tool.

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FWIW and purely by accident, I found that the rod ends on many of the small replacement gas struts UNSCREW. So if you're having trouble with only that end fitting , it may be possible to change just the ends- maybe by contacting the mfgr. Found this out 'cause Hall used to sell gas struts with a blade end rather than a rod end (which took special brackets), and the blade end fell off in shipment....
Just installed the Autozone D95004. Got the wife to lift the deck (after I had put painter's tape on its edge to protect it). Made some spacers/bushings from bronze air fittings cut to 3/4" lengths that fit perfectly.
quote:
Originally posted by DOES 200:
Well, here is the first measurement on a brand, if anyone wants to add more brands. I measured one strut using my 4 post lift as a press with a scale under it.

Mighty-Lift D95004:
1" compressed = 96 lb
4" compressed = 105 lb
6" combressed = 108 lb

I did not put the Mighty-Lift on my car yet. I still have the Detomaso sold by many on my car, below is a link to the one from Wilkenson. I would be real interested in the pressure of these Detomaso struts.
http://www.panterapartsusa.com...l.cgi?prod_id=18126A


To continue with this post by adding more pressure measurements of other struts, I just measured the Detomaso 18126A brand from Wilkinson and here are the pressure specs:

1/2 to 1" compressed = 120 lb (this is what it took to make it start to compress).
2" to full compression gradually increased from the 120 to 160 near full compression.


My Autozone Mighty-lift 95004 seem to have given out, as now they hardly hold the hood up. I was thinking of putting Detomaso 18126A back on the car, so I decided to check the strut pressure again using the pressure from my car lift on the strut with bathroom scale under. As I lowered the lift and compressed the strut, the 120 lb to 160 lb as shown above was still valid. So if no one is experiencing issues with these shocks, then that pressure may be ok. I always hear everyone hype how these shocks release pressure when compressed, well that sure doesn't seem true on my testing. Maybe I am not testing pressure properly? I just lower my lift onto the shock and watch the bathroom scale numbers as I slowly lower the lift, what the hey!
quote:
Autozone Mighty-lift 95004

My Autozone Mighty-lift 95004 were week this winter (after only about 6 months)...but seem to be satisfactory as the weather/engine heats up.
quote:
Originally posted by TomCat:
quote:
Autozone Mighty-lift 95004

My Autozone Mighty-lift 95004 were week this winter (after only about 6 months)...but seem to be satisfactory as the weather/engine heats up.

It has warmed up here in CA and when running the car warm they do stay up just "almost", so I may just get another pair. Still debating the Detomaso 18126A, but I recall when on my car the pressure was even much greater when the car was run and engine bay hot (so with a hot engine bay, those pressure numbers shown above are probably much higher).
quote:
Reply

I just replaced the AutoZone 95004 (blue sticker says 4490 0073) with the Sachs SG314002. The support seems fine.
Tom
Ps-Mine is a 73 with no wing, etc...
Page 3, August 29, 2008:
I contacted Wilkinson. Bill explined the NAPA shocks create the most pressure in the closed position. He said they have seen numerous deck lids damaged (bent) and deck lid hinges and pins warped with these shocks due the pressure exerted by the NAPA (Belcamp & Omni shocks). The shock (NAPA style)pressure is maxed in the closed position, exerting a constant amount of pressure on the deck lid.

Bill advised their replacemnt shock has the correct pressure and it is maxed in the open position. He also said he it will not make any difference on the NAPA shocks to have the piston up or down, same pressure.

Bill said a new deck lid is $5,400.00 !

I do not see any reason to screw around trying to save $45-50 and risk damage. I don't believe he would set any sales records for a pair of shocks costing about $90.00. I felt his advice was sincere. His also comes with the hardware.

We all like to save money but the possible consequences do not seem to be worth the risk.

They work great & i don't worry about bending the deck.

IndyDave
I'll put in my $.02 for the IPSCO setup. Preferable geometry. When the decklid is closed, there is no vertical vector, so it won't heave your decklid out of shape. Mine has a slight heave on the left side from previous struts. When you hit the lock button, it lifts on its own. Pricier, but worth it.

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quote:
Originally posted by IndyDave:
Page 3, August 29, 2008:
I contacted Wilkinson. Bill explined the NAPA shocks create the most pressure in the closed position. He said they have seen numerous deck lids damaged (bent) and deck lid hinges and pins warped with these shocks due the pressure exerted by the NAPA (Belcamp & Omni shocks). The shock (NAPA style)pressure is maxed in the closed position, exerting a constant amount of pressure on the deck lid.

Bill advised their replacemnt shock has the correct pressure and it is maxed in the open position. He also said he it will not make any difference on the NAPA shocks to have the piston up or down, same pressure.

Bill said a new deck lid is $5,400.00 !

I do not see any reason to screw around trying to save $45-50 and risk damage. I don't believe he would set any sales records for a pair of shocks costing about $90.00. I felt his advice was sincere. His also comes with the hardware.

We all like to save money but the possible consequences do not seem to be worth the risk.

They work great & i don't worry about bending the deck.

IndyDave


IndyDave. I am not sure what the BS is with the less pressure in the closed position on those Detomaso shocks. I put one of those shocks on a press with a scale and the pressure is as indicated below (160 compressed), which is why I hesitate to use them. And these pressure are with cool shocks, you warm them up in a hot engine bay and it is much more. I hear 110 lb max is what it will take to not bend the decklid on shocks over time. If I buy them I wonder if they would guarantee decklid replacement, as that is where the rubber meets the road. Don't take my word for it, anyone buying them just put it on a press with a scale before you put it on your car and read what it says as you compress them.

Here are the pressure measurements I got on the Detomaso 18126A measureing one shock:
1/2 to 1" compressed = 120 lb (this is what it took to make it start to compress).
2" to full compression gradually increased from the 120 to 160 near full compression.

I may just end up going with a broom stick and be done with it.
Last edited by does200
Well, now it looks like I'm back to square one.
I do appreciate you letting me know your measurements. Boom stick doen't sound too bad now.

Any idea of the cost for the IPSCO shocks?
I too just installed the IPSCO Rear Deck Lid Shock Replacement Kit. Very nice kit / works great. Dave2811 is right, geometry on stock setup just seems wrong, no matter what shock you use it pushes up on your deck lid. IPSCO kit will work great for 180's too. Looks to be about $200 for the kit -

Main page
http://www.ipsco.org/

Rear Deck Lid Shock Replacement Kit
http://www.ipsco.org/Pantera%2...id%20Shock%20Kit.htm
Last edited by shotgungrooms
The IPSCO deck lid shock replacement kit is great. The instructions are straight forward. Even comes with a drill bit stop to prevent drilling through your deck lid. I wanted my mounts polished. They were kind enough to take off the anodizing and polish them for me. The only difficult part is fishing the backing plate up through the deck lid, oh, and deciding to drill holes in your car!
I am obviously no deck lid shock expert, but if installing the IPSCO, I would just be very careful with the deck lid proximity to the roof line when installing because from what I saw on Dave's yellow car at C&C is that these shocks tend to elevate the deck lid extension more than the other struts. See the following photos showing the hood getting closer to vertical with those shocks. Just be careful with it, and you may need to back up your deck lid a little. Nice car Dave!

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Kind of interesting, Brad's blue car with the IPSCO set up seems to have lower hood extension than Dave's yellow car. Maybe they offer choices of different shock lengths. But anyway I don't feel like drilling into my engine bay, so I may still just go with broom stick...would be a good conversation item at car shows.

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Or, I could just hold up my hood at car shows as shown for new exercise regimen to build endurance. Big Grin

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quote:
Originally posted by DOES 200:
Kind of interesting, Brad's blue car with the IPSCO set up seems to have lower hood extension than Dave's yellow car. Maybe they offer choices of different shock lengths. .....

I guess it depends on how closely you measure per the instructions. Placement of the anchor points will have a huge effect on the geometry.

Yea, you have to watch the pinch point between the decklid and the body when installing the kit.

Edit: I reviewed the installation instructions, and there seems to be a conflict on the placement of the upper anchor points. One page says 25" to the center of the ball, and one page says 25" to the first hole. I believe I placed mine at the latter, so that would move the ball further fwd, and raise the lid higher.
Last edited by dave2811
FWIW, most Pantera vendors will not sell decklid shocks that compress with over 110 psi pressure, and even those are only for the heaviest wings. If your car needs more than a 110 lb shock (x 2), use the old reliable broomstick 'cause you really don't want to know what a bent roofline will cost to fix! The relatively cheap decklid is not what bends.... And the lower attach brackets are very difficult to repair with the engine and ZF installed.
quote:
Originally posted by Bosswrench:
FWIW, most Pantera vendors will not sell decklid shocks that compress with over 110 psi pressure, and even those are only for the heaviest wings. If your car needs more than a 110 lb shock (x 2), use the old reliable broomstick 'cause you really don't want to know what a bent roofline will cost to fix! The relatively cheap decklid is not what bends.... And the lower attach brackets are very difficult to repair with the engine and ZF installed.

Ha ha, that's a good one, when the vendors don't even know the pressures when you ask. I only find out when measuring them myself. I like the autozone Mighty-Lift D95004 pressure being under 110, but they don't seem to last too long maybe they are not meant for engine heat.
Last edited by does200
So what's wrong with just cutting a piece of PVC pipe to fit and using it as a stop on each side with the original shocks? I guess I've read the whole thread and have no idea which shocks to get now. I'm just as confused as when I started to read it. The opinions and experiences are all over the place.
For those with an Advance Auto in their neghborhood, the correct Decklid Struts for a non-winged car are StrongArm #4490

I originally purchased a strut from Strongarm that was cross referenced from another brand recommended on the Forum. It was way to strong for a non winged car. I simply called the company (Strong Arm)and spoke with their tech rep. He had a listing of all their strut's pressure, extended lengths and mounting methods. We walked through the alternatives and found the correct application.
quote:
Originally posted by Corey Price:
So what's wrong with just cutting a piece of PVC pipe to fit and using it as a stop on each side with the original shocks? I guess I've read the whole thread and have no idea which shocks to get now. I'm just as confused as when I started to read it. The opinions and experiences are all over the place.

Ha ha Corey, this is what it is about when non-stock items are no longer avaliable, hunt and pick, trial and error. PCV vs Wood Stick, hum...I prefer wood. I wouldn't mind getting the autozone mighty-lift again, but since they don't seem to last, I found it somewhat risky changing these all the time as the brackets tend to bend somewhat on the car when taking out the bolts even if I support the hood real well...ouch!

To me, it seems like the Mighty-Lift and Strong Arm are probably the same manufacturer, but different label. See links below, exactly same specs. At least I see autozone now lists the pressure (80lb), damn first time anyone has listed the pressure rating. Although when I measured mine in a press I got:
Mighty-Lift D95004:
1" compressed = 96 lb
4" compressed = 105 lb
6" combressed = 108 lb

Mighty Lift D95004:
http://www.autozone.com/autozo...?itemIdentifier=1029

StrongArm #4490:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.c...ncode=22-109751138-2

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Yes, when i installed my IPSCO setup ... I did not follow the 25" per instructions... I held the lid up to where i wanted it (and with IPSCO shock fully extended) then installed mount. It was not the 25 / 26" per instructions.. If needed i can measure my opening and my mounting points... Kit is really easy to work with. Depending on mounting points you can have any lid opening you want.....Maybe just can not be mounted less than 25" which most likely is the short mounting limit (shock would bottom out when closing). Mine is lower than when I had stock setup

Before drilling holes in your Pantera,THINK WITH YOUR HEAD, measure 10 times - drill once - COMMON SENCE SHOULD PREVAIL!

Dam thats a bad ass blue pantera - who's is that?

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Last edited by shotgungrooms
Yes, It appears that you are correct about the struts being the same as their specs are identical. Although, the Strong Arm does seem to have the advantage of being .007lbs lighter. :^)

I'll let everyone know should the Strong Arm struts fail over time. So far, so good.
quote:
So what's wrong with just cutting a piece of PVC pipe to fit and using it as a stop on each side with the original shocks?


That is basically what I did... I installed the Autozone shocks on my car and noticed the Carbon fiber was warping under the constant closed pressure.

So, I drilled small little holes at the bottom of each shock to let all the pressure out.

I have tiny little clips that I snap into place when I open the hood. I drilled a small hole through the shaft that I put a pin through to hold the hood open. Zero pressure and doesn't look so low tech as a broom handle...
quote:
Originally posted by Z06 Pantera:
quote:
So what's wrong with just cutting a piece of PVC pipe to fit and using it as a stop on each side with the original shocks?


That is basically what I did... I installed the Autozone shocks on my car and noticed the Carbon fiber was warping under the constant closed pressure.

So, I drilled small little holes at the bottom of each shock to let all the pressure out.

I have tiny little clips that I snap into place when I open the hood. I drilled a small hole through the shaft that I put a pin through to hold the hood open. Zero pressure and doesn't look so low tech as a broom handle...

Not a bad idea drilling the shaft and using a pin to insert and hold up the hood. I bet it was hard gettig through that shaft and getting it just right. O shock pressure on a carbon fiber hood would be easy to raise the hood, but the metal hoods are kind of hefty unless you are Arnold Schwarzenegger. Maybe on the metal hoods don't drill out the bottom to still have a little pressure to help, and keep that shaft hole small as metal hoods are pretty heavy.
I got a new set of the Mighty-Lift D95004 on the car. Damn, those are just the right pressure from any I have tried. However they just don't seem to retain the full pressure as time goes on. Last set lasted about 9 months. I wonder if the heat of the engine is somehow weakening them over time, maybe acting on the seals some how. I saw this label which made me think of that.

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I have been working with Autozone on the issue with their D95004 struts tending to fail over time. They contacted their vendor and I got some more specs on some of their other struts as noted below. I am thinking the D95060 may even be better since they are very similar, but have a little more pressure, and a little shorter but not by very much. See below (Sorry it is a little difficult to read as the web doesn't seem to post tables well, but read accross and you can follow it). That 106 pressure on the D95060 doesn't seem bad, considering the Detomaso shocks from vendors I measured 120 to begin the compression up to 160 fully compressed.

Part# Ext Comp Stroke Shaft Body Force
D95004 17.18 10.96 6.22 8 18 88
D95957 17.26 11.04 6.22 8 18 125
D95148 16.77 10.34 6.43 8 18 149
D95060 16.77 10.34 6.43 8 18 106
Last edited by does200
Been trying to work with Autozone, but apparently they do not follow through on their warranty for their parts, so I would be cautious about getting parts from them. They indicated the struts were not intended for use on the Pantera (as it is not listed), although I indicated whats the diff, all the strut does is go up and down no matter what it is hooked to...go figure.
quote:
Originally posted by IndyDave:
YEAR, MAKE & MODEL PLEASE?

Oh, I'm sorry, it is not on the screen, we can't help you!

Ha ha yeah, real helpful company. However the new D95004 are working perfect so far, we will see if this pair lasts.
Mr. 200, try mounting your deck shocks upside down. This puts the seal at the bottom and although your experience indicates the seals are below par, this might help extend their life a little. We used to do this with stock deck shocks for a different reason: the big stockers had a loose fitting boot on top along with a lip that tended to collect rainwater under the boot, which then rusted the shock top. If the big stockers can be mounted upside down, surely the small aftermarket shocks will fit.
quote:
Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Mr. 200, try mounting your deck shocks upside down. This puts the seal at the bottom and although your experience indicates the seals are below par, this might help extend their life a little. We used to do this with stock deck shocks for a different reason: the big stockers had a loose fitting boot on top along with a lip that tended to collect rainwater under the boot, which then rusted the shock top. If the big stockers can be mounted upside down, surely the small aftermarket shocks will fit.

My car doesn't see rain so I am not sure if that would change things fitting them the other way. But I was wondering if heat was ruining them, as on the package it says avoid heat. So when just tooling around town I put on a heat wrap tube and so I will see how this works over time. I recall these used to get real hot without the wrap, so I will see what happens.
Just bought a pair of Autozone Mighty Lift struts - p/n D95060. Lasted exactly one week. They held just fine at install. closed the decklid. Came back yesterday, they can't hold crap. So much for that idea - they are going back on Monday. Autozone is crap.

Ordered a set of Sachs from PepBoys - will try those.
quote:
Originally posted by Panterapatt:
Just bought a pair of Autozone Mighty Lift struts - p/n D95060. Lasted exactly one week. They held just fine at install. closed the decklid. Came back yesterday, they can't hold crap. So much for that idea - they are going back on Monday. Autozone is crap.

Ordered a set of Sachs from PepBoys - will try those.

That sucks, especially since their chart shows the D95060 to be stronger than the D95004 which I have. Mine are still holding up fine. If you get a chance, maybe test the pressure if you have a jack or car lift (something with force to compress them on a scale...I used a bathroom scale under my car lift).
If you mount them cylinder side up the seal shouldn't dry out. Other than than it won't make a difference.
Took the "mighty-lifts" back to autozone and got a refund. bought a set of Sachs 003's. Holding so far, but not as strong as I would like. When Kragen was still in business, their Dorman brand made a good lift strut with life time warranty. Too bad. Jury is out on the Sachs. Will keep all updated.
I've had mine for at least 15 years. They lift up the rear deck (with delta wing) with no effort from me at all. And it stays up. I can leave it open all day in the sun. They haven't lost anything in all these years. There's no brand name on them but I snapped this. I highly recommend them if you can figure out who's they are. I can't find any reference for that PN.

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quote:
Originally posted by Panterapatt:
Took the "mighty-lifts" back to autozone and got a refund. bought a set of Sachs 003's. Holding so far, but not as strong as I would like. When Kragen was still in business, their Dorman brand made a good lift strut with life time warranty. Too bad. Jury is out on the Sachs. Will keep all updated.

Dude, before you put them on the car did you measure the pressure on the Sachs? I found 106 on the Autozone Mighty-Lift D95004 when I put them on my car, and that was for sure the sweet spot. Much more than that I understand isn't good, I even saw one car where the struts bent the roof in some strange manner.
Most of the verified Pantera parts vendors WILL NOT sell struts that measure over 100 lbs due to the likelihood of warping the roof where the hinges bolt on. If your decklid needs more than 100 lbs from each strut, use a strut-lock on one rod rather than a lift that can wreck the body. FWIW, the roof area is probably the least easy area to fix of the whole car- by anyone.
Pantera-Pat, the stock struts had a boot and a raised portion of the strut. The boot was loose-fitting and water ran down the rod under the boot & collected at the raised part. Then it rusted. So, many old-timers started installing stock struts upside-down to preserve the strut seals. With the Chinese gas struts used nowadays and their more rounded seal ends, there's no particular advantage to mounting upside-down but the early mount is widely copied anyway. FWIW, the rod end unscrews on most, if you have blade-type (Hall) ends and need heim-joint ends.
I don't get it.

We all like to save money but the possible consequences do not seem to be worth the risk; warped decks and damaged roofs, as Jack stated, among others. I was also one of you guys experimenting UNTIL I found out about the damage the NAPA, Belkamp, Autozone, etc, shocks could cause. I'm sure I spent way more than the $90 cost from one of our suppliers. Buy the $90 shocks from one of our suppliers and have some piece of mind and save the possible repair dollars. Go price a deck lid before you experiment!

Just my opinion.
Do the vendor struts come with certifications, load reports and ISO certifications that they are guaranteed to be precisely at some calculated load rating based on solid modeling and 3-d analysis that won't deflect the myriad of pantera decks out there. come on now guys. the vendors did the same thing - they experimented until they found something that worked and sell it for $90.

No reputable vendor will never sell a strut that exceeds 100 lbs.? yea, am sure they are load testing each unit.
IndyDave, I agree totally that cost should not be an issue; however the only reason I switched to find non-detomoso labeled struts is because the pressure on them just seemed too much to me. So when I took my new Detomaso 18126A brand off of my car and measured them, these are the pressures I discovered as noted below. Anyone else can try it too, for verification, but that is what I found, and then my Autozone Mighty-Lift D95004 were much less at 106 lbs (just right in my opinion). I am not saying the Detomaso 18126A will bend your hood or anything, but for me that pressure just seemed too strong.

Detomaso 18126A pressure: 1/2 to 1" compressed = 120 lb (this is what it took to make it start to compress).
2" to full compression gradually increased from the 120 to 160 near full compression.
Jan,
I will dig around & see what I can turn up from several of the suppliers, regarding compression. Let me know if you already have the information.
Dave
quote:
Originally posted by IndyDave:
Jan,
I will dig around & see what I can turn up from several of the suppliers, regarding compression. Let me know if you already have the information.
Dave

Good luck, usually they don't know the pressures, and a few vendors I asked wouldn't even tell what their pressures were, like a big secret. That is why I measured my Detomaso 18126A and others myself.
My struts are about ten years old and work great when it's warm out. I installed a wing three years ago and the still do a great of holding it up. I think they came from Larry. When the cold air arrives in New York they have alway need a litte help.
...Why hasn't one of US developed a Air Cylinder with a 'Schrader' Valve (Like on Your wheels) that would allow the User to Adjust (Raise or Lower) the Pressure (using a Compressor or just a Hand Pump)!? The 'Balance' could be set Perfectly to Ones Liking. With Wing...Without Wing. Steel Bonnet, Carbon Fiber! With the Accuracy of a Digital pressure Gauge the Pair could be Balanced Perfectly Left to Right! OR just Connect them together with a Thin line.
Does One believe that Two aftemarket Cylinders 'Off the Shelf', would come Perfectly Matched?
Also, Instead of Air, Use Nitrogen! The design would never 'Die'!! When they get weak...pump them up! Hot Climate/Cold Climate; REadjust!! A Small 'Mini' Gauge could be mounted on Each Strut(or just One) to help Moniter the 'Health' of Each Cylinder!
Or do 'I' have to do IT? They would NOT come Cheap!...
Last edited by marlinjack
quote:
Originally posted by MARLIN JACK:
....
Or do 'I' have to do IT? They would NOT come Cheap!...

That would be one way .. but complicated. Not to sound like a pimp for the IPSCO setup, but the engineering elegantly solves the inherent geometry problem with the original design. Love the Italians, but A^2+B^2=C^2 was not in their vocabulary.
...I thought We decided on the Correct Orientation of the Strut a Long Time Ago!!
The Rod Goes DOWN, so the Piston and Seals Stay Covered with the Lubricating Oil!! And YES! It IS The Heat that Makes Them Fail; as well as the 'Reservoir' being on the Bottom. With NO Lubrication the Piston Seals Dry out, can't Slide smoothly, they tear...NO more Pressure! There's No Mystery Here! And there's always the Heat! Even the Most Expensive Cylinders can Only Handle 140 Dgrees F! How hot do these Struts get? What is the temp Radiating off the Heads and Headers in the Vecinity of these Struts? 250F, 300F Higher?

I just finished Researching what I would need to produce a Custom, Fully Adjustable 'Air Strut', Specifically for the Pantera, and Only the Pantera! They are Perfectly 'Doable', But I would have to get $200. Each for them. And then they could only handle 140F Max.
I could Machine and build them from scratch, but the Piston 'Seal' would be 'Iffy'! and the cost would be Astronomical! Over the Cheaper Struts, there would never be a Market for Them!

My Advice is, if You mount them with the Rod Up, Expect them to Fail a Lot Sooner!! And even With the Rod Down, Sooner or Later, the Heat WILL Kill them! I suppose one could wrap a 'Ice-Pack' around them; or Install AC Onto them!LOL

Well, just use a Broomstick for a Hood-Prop and stop throwing Money away on Taiwanese Junk!LOL...
Last edited by marlinjack
quote:
Originally posted by MARLIN JACK:
...I thought We decided on the Correct Orientation of the Strut a Long Time Ago!!
The Rod Goes DOWN, so the Piston and Seals Stay Covered with the Lubricating Oil!! And YES! It IS The Heat that Makes Them Fail; as well as the 'Reservoir' being on the Bottom. With NO Lubrication the Piston Seals Dry out, can't Slide smoothly, they tear...NO more Pressure! There's No Mystery Here! And there's always the Heat! Even the Most Expensive Cylinders can Only Handle 140 Dgrees F! How hot do these Struts get? What is the temp Radiating off the Heads and Headers in the Vecinity of these Struts? 250F, 300F Higher?

I just finished Researching what I would need to produce a Custom, Fully Adjustable 'Air Strut', Specifically for the Pantera, and Only the Pantera! They are Perfectly 'Doable', But I would have to get $200. Each for them. And then they could only handle 140F Max.
I could Machine and build them from scratch, but the Piston 'Seal' would be 'Iffy'! and the cost would be Astronomical! Over the Cheaper Struts, there would never be a Market for Them!

My Advice is, if You mount them with the Rod Up, Expect them to Fail a Lot Sooner!! And even With the Rod Down, Sooner or Later, the Heat WILL Kill them! I suppose one could wrap a 'Ice-Pack' around them; or Install AC Onto them!LOL

Well, just use a Broomstick for a Hood-Prop and stop throwing Money away on Taiwanese Junk!LOL...

I figured maybe the heat is what was doing in my Autozone struts early. I did get some heat tubing wrap from Racing Sumit, which looks ok but I usually just slip them off at shows. Next time they fail I will put in the struts rod down, but so far with that heat wrap things seem to be ok.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave2811:
quote:
Originally posted by MARLIN JACK:
....
Or do 'I' have to do IT? They would NOT come Cheap!...

That would be one way .. but complicated. Not to sound like a pimp for the IPSCO setup, but the engineering elegantly solves the inherent geometry problem with the original design. Love the Italians, but A^2+B^2=C^2 was not in their vocabulary.

The IPSCO system completely eliminates the problem with too much shock pressure and possible damage bending the decklid or hinges. There is no up ward force on the decklid or hinges at all when its closed. It all pushes straight back. I have a wing on my car and it raises nicely. Plus when its Going up at the end it slows down so it won't jar the decklid. I'm sold on the system.

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Well, my Autozone Mighty-Lift D95004 finally got weaker just over a year after install. Plus as I mentioned above, I heat wrapped them to protect them from engine heat. It still let a little heat onto them, but sure cut it down quite a bit. They have been a little weak in the CA winter (with CA temps around 50-60 during the day), but now that we are experiencing warmer weather, it seems they are still weak. So, I thought I would just report back that my heat wrap experiment didn't quite work in keeping them strong. So now I just use the clamp-on devise onto one of the struts to keep it up. I may actually go back to the Detomaso 18126A that the vendors are selling, eventhough the pressure I tested seemed high as noted below. But if no one has issues with them being too strong, then what the hey, strap em on.

Detomaso 18126A pressure: 1/2 to 1" compressed = 120 lb (this is what it took to make it start to compress).
2" to full compression gradually increased from the 120 to 160 near full compression.
Jan

there are a couple of other options.

(1) Larry Stock is selling rebuilt oem struts, he's found a guy that can rebuild them.

(2) There was an article in a POCA newsletter a few months ago about using struts from the McMaster Carr catalog. I haven't seen them, but the McMaster Carr struts are supposed to look almost identicle to the oem struts.
quote:
Originally posted by ZR1 Pantera:
Why not put the IPSCO setup on it and forget about it?


If function is more important than OEM look, there should not be any question about it.
IMHO I could add : They look much better than the original.
Along with what George said, Ted Mitchell has been selling no-strut deck lid supports with flat coil springs for quite a few years, that look like Detroit hood supports from the '60s. They are properly weighted and are totally heat-insensitive, using no gas at all. Check his web site www.tmitch.com. Not cheap but quality never is.
quote:
Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Along with what George said, Ted Mitchell has been selling no-strut deck lid supports with flat coil springs for quite a few years, that look like Detroit hood supports from the '60s. They are properly weighted and are totally heat-insensitive, using no gas at all. Check his web site www.tmitch.com. Not cheap but quality never is.

Yeah, but I like the bone stock apperance on everything..he he Smiler Smiler

If no one has experienced ill things with the Detomaso 18126A, then I may just do those. Actually with all the talk about hoods and hinges bending, I have never actually personally heard of anyone that has had that happen, or any photos.
Thanks for the Mcmasters source too. In the link below there is quite a bit of offerings, and for once, someone actually posts lbs pressure.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#gas-springs/=lx99s6
Well, from my March 15th post and earlier when my decklid shocks were not working well, my Autozone Mighty-Lift D95004 are now working fine in holding up the rear decklid. March here in CA is about 60 degrees or so and the struts still were not holding well even with that slight warm up since the chilly 40s/50s during the winter. But now that we are into June it is in the 80s and they are now working fine. So, now after seeing this happen for a few seasons, I conclude that broom handle seems to be the appropriate applcation in the winter until summer rolls around, and then struts are ok...even in CA with low temperature variance, go figure.
quote:
Originally posted by David B:
I've had mine for at least 15 years. They lift up the rear deck (with delta wing) with no effort from me at all. And it stays up. I can leave it open all day in the sun. They haven't lost anything in all these years. There's no brand name on them but I snapped this. I highly recommend them if you can figure out who's they are. I can't find any reference for that PN.


I just ran across this post.

RB8795148 is a part number but can't find the original manufacturer.

Tried Google'ing it and cross references to a 1978-1987 Dodge/Plymouth Hatchback.
Interchange Part Number: SG314005,4400,8195207,10368,8504IL,901210
Other Part Number: RB8795148,95148,613305

Sold in pairs.

The interchange part from Strongarm (PN4400)are sold in pairs for around $30 at The Lift Support Depot in San Marcos, California through their EBay store. Not sure what their normal price is.

Read some previous posts and decided to look around for new lid lifts. My existing units measured around 75 lbs when pushed against a scale and would not stay open.
Contacted Sacks and they identified several that were close to existing model.

Here's their reply;
SG314002 17.2" ext, 11" comp, 85#, 8mm eyelets
SG302001 17.4" ext, 11.5" comp, 85#, 8mm eyelets
SG314032 17.2" ext, 11" comp, 114#, 12mm eyelets
SG314003 16.7" ext, 10.25" comp, 121#, 12mm eyelets

These are the lift supports I have which closest fit your needs. You can purchase them at O'Reilly's Auto Parts, Pep Boys or Autozone. You can also find a wide variety of lift supports at www.liftsupportsdepot.com.

I purchased #SG314032 for my non-winged '72 Pantera. My deck lid has the dress up underside
so that does add a little weight.
These work perfect. Pop the hood and it raises by itself in a controlled manner and stays open. These new units are 115LBS, have the correct eyelet ends with slots that match my (i think) original double mount ends. Cost was around $23 each at O'Reilly.

Thank you for getting me on track.

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Last edited by George P

The ones that Hall sells as a non-stock replacement, when you cross the number over on the label, do show as that Dodge number. They also cost something like $28 each in a NAPA store.

I bought my first set from Hall. Installed them and the hinges where the attach to the decklid IMMEDIATELY pulled out of the decklid.

The only thing I could do there was braze them internally through the slit and they held. Problem is the heat warped that part of the lid.

I got that under control by shimming down the hinge mount flanges to the roof by 1/8".

I noticed that the deck was no longer pushing itself up, and was sliding down about 5 or 6 inches yesterday.

I have no wing.

I also think I see movement in the attachment of one of the hinges and the decklid.

There is NO visible rust on the decklid in the hinge area.

I haven't come up with a solution to this as I just noticed the entire mess yesterday.

Needless to say, I am not a happy camper.


I personally like the look of the original fat lift shocks.

I did hear mention that the rebuilt originals will not last for long. They seem to be a temporary solution as they quickly loose thier charge.

I personally can not verify that, since I have not gone that route.

I am going to an Italian Car day show today and will see if there are other Panteras there and what they have.

Any info on this I will post.

I am not sure how the factory originally attached these hinges to the decklid. There is no exterior evidence of that.

If the braze has not held, not sure where to go with this. Doesn't look like they can be converted to bolts.

Not a good scenario all in all.

 

I saw one car that has electronic lifts like on the current mini-vans. It works nice and he had it tied electronically to his key fob. I'm not sure if in the case of some type of an electronic failure the deck can be lifted manually or not? Pantera-electronics, i.e., Jon Haas has a design he makes that need an air compressor to work. I have a set here.

The issue that I have with that design is that the struts are larger in diameter then the replacement struts. That puts them too close to a couple of the tubes on my headers.

The other thing is that I'm out of room to put another compressor gracefully in the car.

 

I'm trying to encourage Haas to build a set of the self powered struts but as always with him, he looks at marketability and what he already has done so there is little hope there.

Every so often I look for electronic struts that would just happen to fall into a direct replacement scenario but so far the Pantera ones are too short to match anything currently in production. Of course there is always the possibility that one of the exotic companies will make them for a reasonable price of $1,000 each? For that probably the polarity will be wrong and you will probably need to rewire the entire car to make them work for sure?

Last edited by panteradoug
quote:
The ones that Hall sells as a non-stock replacement, when you cross the number over on the label, do show as that Dodge number. They also cost something like $28 each in a NAPA store.

I bought my first set from Hall. Installed them and the hinges where the attach to the decklid IMMEDIATELY pulled out of the decklid.

The only thing I could do there was braze them internall through the slit and they held. Problem is the heat warped that part of the lid.

I got that under control by shimming down the hinge mount flanges to the roof by 1/8".

I noticed that the deck was no longer pushing itself up, and was sliding down about 5 or 6 inches yesterday.

I have no wing.

I also think I see movement in the attachment of one of the hinges and the decklid.

There is NO visible rust on the decklid in the hinge area.

I haven't come up with a solution to this as I just noticed the entire mess yesterday.

Needless to say, I am not a happy camper.


I personally like the look of the original fat lift shocks.

I did hear mention that the rebuilt originals will not last. They seem to be a temporary solution as they quickly loose there charge.

I personally can not verify that, since I have not gone that route.

I am going to an Italian Car day show today and will see if there are other Panteras there and what they have.

Any info on this I will post.

I am not sure how the factory originally attached these hinges to the decklid. There is no exterior evidance of that.

If the braze has not held, not sure where to go with this. Doesn't look like they can be converted to bolts.

Not a good scenario all in all.


All of this is easily solved once and for all with a pair of IPSCO units. But alas, they are not in the stock location (because they are engineered to be an improvement).
Yeah, my Autozone Mighty-Lift D95004 finally gave out, even in hot weather. They do hold up only when nice and hot after running the car. After buying a few sets of these, it seems the life on them is about a year or two. I even used heat reflector on them when I drove the car, as I thought the heat was ruining then, but that didn't seem to help their life. I would consider going back to those sold by some vendors labeled "Detomaso" as described here earlier, but I measured the pressure as stated here before and it is up to 160lb under compression Seems way too much to me. I have found 110 is the sweet spot for non wing car. So for now just using the manual strut clamp to keep it open. I think George posted a source to build some custom struts, so I may try that. Pain in the butt, as it isn't really that easy to change them out without overextending the hood or screwing up the hinges.
DOES 200, We spoke after I bought my Pantera about 5 years ago. So how many Pantera's make a decent retirement fund?

From these past posts - most thought 90-100 lbs per strut would be perfect. The Sachs unit I purchased bolts right up and have 115 lbs for $23 each. I can lower the lid with one strong finger.

Best to you and the board.
Jon Haas has a pretty neat set up. If you paint it black the cylinders will look like the originals.

Cylinders are operated by an air pump with a hidden switch in the license plate recess.

He doesn't market the thing but maybe with enough, "hey Jon?" inquiries he would make some?