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Sticky #3: Pantera Seats

hustlerhustlerMember
I'm in the same boat, I have the stock seats which I like because they are period correct. There is no ass cushion left which actually is good for me since I'm 6'2 and its enabled me to fit. The downside is that after an hour of driving its uncomfortable. I need something that sits very low and also tucks right up against the firewall, so my butt can slide forward and knees are just bent more.

The C4 seats are really nice, I believe I sat in Gary Herrig's car before he sold it, but I was pretty squashed as there was a lot more cushion.

I'm debating some Kirkey Classic Buckets with the pseudo leather button on upholstery at this point. That way I can add cushioning as I see fit and alter the layback degree.

I can't tell, but this looks like a stock seat re-uphostered, but the headrest removed looks like more clearance to move the seat back ultimately.

Last edited by hustler
kirkevanskirkevansAmeriSport GT5-S builder Pantera Parts Vendor
Just a quick FWI. C4 and Fiero seats have the same cushion height, width and profile. At 6'2" you will be crouching forward on the seat which puts your knees high and close to the steering wheel.

If you want comfort at your height in a Pantera, you'll need to move the pedals forward and drop the floor pans. That will give you the space needed for seats that will allow you to drive farther that around the corner before your butt falls asleep.

The other option is to pull the seat spacer, pull the seat tracks and mount the seat direct to the floor. It's not a great solution, but will help. If you mount direct, I recommend installing some type of a skid plate in front of the bolts so the heads will not catch anything that might go under the car. If a bolt head catches the right debris, it can rip it right out of the seat.
hustlerhustlerMember
Thanks for the advice you guys. I'll take a look at how involved it would be to space the pedal box forward. I'll probably delay the floor pan drop, but may be in the books too after the car is back together. I believe most of the back soreness was the result of leaning back at an incline not at the same degree as the seat, so inherently I had no back support. The firewall/seat is inclined at 10 degrees correct? I didn't mind scrunching my legs together by scooting my butt forward, it was the prolonged lack of back lumbar support.

I may be in a better boat if I can just angle the seat correctly as low as possibleand do what you suggested Kirk and just bolt it directly to the floor and remove the rails altogether. It will just be a little more difficult to finagle in. I'll look at the skidplate idea or at the very least a beveled head or something to sink it in more flush.

Those seats are nice David, I want to say I've run across those before. Definitely on the pricey side, but whats your back worth Smiler Do you know anyone with those seats installed?

Seems like every once in awhile I read about guys getting out of these cars mostly because of back issues as they get older. So I should probably put some attention into a solution now.

This Bride Histrix looks interesting as well. Maybe not everyones cup o tea Smiler





Also anyone know who makes this seat? This somewhat positions you in a better position I would think.

panteradougpanteradougMember
The best seat to use in a Pantera is a Pantera seat. That's why they were made for the car.

The original upholstery is the main culprit to them though. It made them hard and somewhat non conforming.

What Hall did with recontouring them into the later 80's configuration makes them 1000% more comfortable.

I have lowered floor pans and the pedal assembly spaced 1-1/2" forward. I'm 6'2".

My pans are dropped 2". I had to space the seat up so I could see over the dash.

I can virtually recline and added power seat platforms which help with the height adjustments as well as seating position.

If you asked me, I'd tell you to do all this and forget about searching endlessly.

The best fitting aftermarket seat that I experienced is the Scheel but that hasn't been made in 20 years.

The Hall seat is better.
panterachrispanterachrisMember
Those are the original seats shown on the release of the car in Italy.
quote:
Originally posted by Hustler:
Thanks for the advice you guys. I'll take a look at how involved it would be to space the pedal box forward. I'll probably delay the floor pan drop, but may be in the books too after the car is back together. I believe most of the back soreness was the result of leaning back at an incline not at the same degree as the seat, so inherently I had no back support. The firewall/seat is inclined at 10 degrees correct? I didn't mind scrunching my legs together by scooting my butt forward, it was the prolonged lack of back lumbar support.

I may be in a better boat if I can just angle the seat correctly as low as possibleand do what you suggested Kirk and just bolt it directly to the floor and remove the rails altogether. It will just be a little more difficult to finagle in. I'll look at the skidplate idea or at the very least a beveled head or something to sink it in more flush.

Those seats are nice David, I want to say I've run across those before. Definitely on the pricey side, but whats your back worth Smiler Do you know anyone with those seats installed?

Seems like every once in awhile I read about guys getting out of these cars mostly because of back issues as they get older. So I should probably put some attention into a solution now.

This Bride Histrix looks interesting as well. Maybe not everyones cup o tea Smiler





Also anyone know who makes this seat? This somewhat positions you in a better position I would think.

George PGeorge PAdmin.
The design team at Ghia (under Tjaarda) designed these seats. The seats were their solution for the Mangusta's lack of head room and leg room, rather than making the Pantera taller or longer. By reclining the seat backs the front of the seat cushion is kicked-up higher. This supports the thighs and bends the knees, thus creating legroom and improving comfort at the same time. Reclining the seat puts the driver in a reclined position and creates headroom.

Tom told me the foam blocks compressed and the seating became uncomfortable after about 20 minutes of driving. The shells were also a bit too narrow or too tall for those wide in the hip region. Rather than spending time developing the seats, Ford chose an alternative seat, the uncomfortable seats we all know and many of us put-up-with. The design team's solution for head room and leg room was thus defeated, and the Pantera isn't much better (if at all) than the Mangusta in that department.

The shells for these seats became the racing seats installed in Group 4 Panteras, optional in Group 3 and GTS Panteras.

I'm 6'2". I installed longer bolts and stacks of washers where the front seat tracks bolt to the floor pans, thus reclining the seat backs and raising the fronts of the seat cushion. It did indeed create headroom, leg room, and improve comfort. I can drive the Pantera for hours and arrive at my destination relaxed, with less fatigue than what I've experienced in cars with far more expensive seating.

I don't know if it creates enough headroom for 6'2" AND a helmet ... but for the price of two bolts and a stack of washers its cheap enough to experiment. I'd also recommend experimenting with this to anyone who finds the OEM seating position uncomfortable, whether or not you need head room or leg room. Start by raising the front seat track by 1", then increase the stack in 1/4" increments until you find the height you like best (if at all).

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kirkevanskirkevansAmeriSport GT5-S builder Pantera Parts Vendor
I had forgotten about the prototype seat story. Tom also said they were going to try a higher density of foam that was molded with shape but was overruled.

The spacer issue is another solution I used on all of the AmeriSport GT5-S cars because the pans were dropped flat and is you did not space the front of the seats, it felt like you were slipping forward--HORRIBLE!

Removing the rear spacers and adding them to the fronts will help allot---the later car spacers were welded in---earlier one were aluminum blocks. If you have an later car with the longer seat tracks, you could replace them with the shorter tracks and move the front mounting holes in the shorter tracks to the longer track forward mounting position. Then re-drill the rear mount holes without any spacers spacer which would also drop the back of the seat. The bottom of the seat when all the way back will be touching the floor using this approach and will give you the max head space height without cutting the car.
rockyrockyMember
On the C4 seats, you can gain headroom by removing the wire basket that supports the foam on the lower seat pad.

This can be done without removing any of the seat covering or the foam, from underneath the seat (before mounting it, of course).

Rocky

PS - I like those Bride seats - a throwback to the original prototype design!
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by Rocky:
On the C4 seats, you can gain headroom by removing the wire basket that supports the foam on the lower seat pad.

This can be done without removing any of the seat covering or the foam, from underneath the seat (before mounting it, of course).

Rocky

PS - I like those Bride seats - a throwback to the original prototype design!


Very similar and in the same family as what the GT40 seating position was.

The most recent production car that comes to my mind with this thinking is the Lotus cars.

I want to see what Alfa did with the 4c seats also but those cars are scarce to the dealers and seem to be allocated to them?
hustlerhustlerMember
I'm leaning toward the kirkey 41v and the largest bucket they have which is 18" at the hip for the side bolsters. Figure I can add foam cushioning to tighten the side bolstering and back cushioning if I go too large. The fixed brackets will allow me to recline them to the degree I want for headroom and the slim back profile will allow me to scoot it way back to the firewall and put it practically on the floor.

Can someone provide me with center to center bolt measurements from front to back and side to side for the factory floor/slider mounting bracket holes? Is this documented anywhere? Would save me a 2 hour drive.
panteradougpanteradougMember
Seats with any kind of sidebolsters in a Pantera are not easy to live with.

It isn't that once you are in they are much of a problem but getting in and out combined with the deep footwells and the proximity of the steering wheel are for me are just a "bridge to far".

You don't really need side bolsters in a Pantera because the car itself is going to hold you in place. Not unless you are 100 pounds and 5 foot tall.

You are really creating an "infant car seat" for adults with it.

I stand with my original combination of the Hall modified seat on the early hinged back design, lowered pans, pedals moved forward, power seat platforms, quick release steering wheel and height adjustable column.

That all didn't happen over night. I understand why there is just so much resistance to it by other owners, but just changing to the one "magic seat" isn't going to do it.

Putting in power seat platforms are going to give you the flexibility of tilt and height adjustments that you are looking for. It gives you the ability also to lower the seat enough to wear a helmet as well on track day without creating additional drama.

Those platforms are adjustable fore/aft, up/down, tilt forward/tilt backwards.

Corvette units are the easiest to find and are going to match up to just about any seat you decide on.
T tomsealbeachMember

Here is a new seat possibility I will be trying in the next few months. They are made by Scat. I've spoken to a few Pantera owners that have done seat swaps and have been told they look like they will work. They are $357 & $406 depending on the version. They also have seat tracks that look to be low profile. They appear to have a very low seat height. Any thoughts from people that have done the swap?

ProCar by Scat 80-1000-51L Rally Series 1000

Amazon https://www.amazon.com/ProCar-...GLQ8?ref_=ast_bbp_dp

They also make a different version that has a smooth, non ribbed design which I will probably go with.

ProCar by Scat 80-1000-51L-DLX

finish.https://www.amazon.com/ProCar-...QN61EH6ZVEM5FCSA2P44

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Last edited by tomsealbeach
cuveecuveeMember
tomsealbeach posted:

Cuvee, those are nice and may be easier for getting in and out of and the seat bottom looks pretty low. Even if I lose a few inches I won't have an issue, I'm 5'8" so unless I wear a top hat I should be good.

I like a seat with high side bolsters, similar to the ones I posted.  I will see. 

The Seats are Comfortable and fit well, Mine are bolted to the floor since I'm the only one that drives the Car. The stock sliders might be a Challenge but can be altered to work, I think? I've heard Porsche sliders may be easier to make work in the Pantera? Not sure about the height? Good Luck with Your choice.

tbergtbergMember

Being in the interior decorating/design business has its rewards.  I took the torn up C4 seats that I bought for under $400 for the pair to my longtime furniture upholsterer of more than 20 years, told him what I wanted on both the bulkhead and the seats as well as the door panels, bought some very inexpensive but beautiful quality and weight leather, and voila, this was the result.  The seats that came with my car when I bought it were not the originals and were just flat across the seat and back.  I had purchased a set of original seats to re-upholster but just didn't like their condition, so I opted for the Corvette ones.  They are very comfortable and the bolstering is enough to make a difference but not so intrusive as to present a problem getting in or out.  I like them!  Your Lambo interior is certainly out there but stellar.  Enjoy.  Happy Holidays to everyone.

joulesjoules"Racing is Life, anything before or after is just waiting" - Steve McQueen

Lets face it most Pantera seats are fixed anyway! I had Lotus Elise seats in my GT5 for many years, they are fixed and worked great. I had to put spacers under the front of the mounting to get the right angle, but that will depend on your preferred position and angle of dropped floor pans.

74gts74gtsMember

The Cobra Nogaros are great seats. I have them in my highly modified Aston Martin V8 Vantage. What I appreciated the most was the amount of customization they are able to do. They found the same Aston Bridge of Weir leather as in the rest of my interior and matched the stitching so it looks OEM. Highly recommend them.

Last edited by 74gts
tajontajonMember
@74gts posted:

The Cobra Nogaros are great seats. I have them in my highly modified Aston Martin V8 Vantage. What I appreciated the most was the amount of customization they are able to do. They found the same Aston Bridge of Weir leather as in the rest of my interior and matched the stitching so it looks OEM. Highly recommend them.

Did you get the CF or Fiberglass seat backs?  I would really like to see a pic or two

Last edited by tajon
KP Kemper PorterMember

I could use some help on a seat problem. I have the fixed back steel seats. I took them to an upholsterer and he deleted the head rest.
Is there anyone on here with some stripped seats or pictures of stripped seats so I can see the hardware the knob threads into and the tracks the head rest slides into? I will have to fabricate that hardware. I dont see anything like that listed for sale.

thanks

kp

R rene4406Member

I installed Mazda MX5 (Miata) seats after modifying them a bit to be able to install them lower and have more space between my head and the roof. They also allow you to be further from the steering wheel because the shoulders can move back further.
The shape is a little too modern for the 70s but they are very comfortable and above all they have good lateral support.
I mounted them without slides, always to gain height and I had to make new fixings in the floor
I of course keep my original seats carefully packaged.



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panteradougpanteradougMember

Just picking a seat isn't going to solve the problem. There are other factors involved.

Most likely what works for me may not work for you.

It depends on how your body fits, not mine.

I've always said that the best seat for a Pantera is a Pantera seat.





I do think that the post 1974 USA seats are better and for me, in leather with the hinged back are best but I don't think that it stops there.

Everything else is involved as to how YOU fit into the car.

That includes the seat tracks, the steering wheel and the pedal positioning.

I don't think that you can wave a magic wand and with just the seat pick fix everything.

My solution was quite involved but it does allow for easy adjustment for other drivers without the trauma.





ALL of these "GT" cars have issues with seating comfort. Some seats from non-Panteras will work for YOU. Some will not.



Aftermarket wise, the discontinued Scheels fit well but made you fit in one way just like in a F-16 and are questionable for long drives. YOU have to fit the seat. Not the other way around.

I didn't like the way even the fabric held me and kept me from squirming around to adjust myself. Size wise thought they were very, very good.



So unfortunately there is no simple answer to this question. It is somewhat of a project and it will become a solution for just one driver in MOST cases.

I didn't accept that and made everything easily adjustable. It was much more then just the seats.

Last edited by panteradoug
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