Wrecked the Pantera (pics)

Dang Robert, breaking an A-arm is a hell of a lot better than breaking a UR-arm! Throttle lift is so intuative for us Americans. I wish all cars were mid-engined so we would know how to drive them properly. It is hard to undo instinct.

I have been lucky or smart enough to only spin the Pantera out on the track and never had any damage. I do now have an understanding of how fast everything happens though. Sorry to hear about your accident, but glad everyone was ok.

PI would have the resorces to handle it. That's a real bummer. Sooo sorry Bro. Tell us a little about your insurance coverage....Bill

Sorry to hear about your misshap Robert. I hate seeing Pantera carnage, especially on Mondays!

Good luck!

-William 3331

quote:

Originally posted by Mark M:
I have been lucky or smart enough to only spin the Pantera out on the track and never had any damage. I do now have an understanding of how fast everything happens though.

You aren't kidding. It seemed like the whole thing happened in two seconds. I don't even remember if I hit the brakes.

Insurance: kept meaning to switch over to agreed upon value insurance, but never had the time...wish I had made the time now. Dave Adler says they do a good job of knowing what they are insuring, and I am paying higher premiums for the Pantera than on the Porsche, so they must have set the value higher. We will see. I think they want PI to help them establish a value as well. That makes sense as PI is familiar with the car. They sold it to the guy I bought it from.

Dave even told me he almost died in that car...I responded "yeah, so did I." He was a passenger on a test drive that didn't go well. He said my car was the last test drive he went on. :-)

Everyone is correct that people are more important than cars. I would feel horrible if I seriously injured someone else. The good news is I suffered through hours of people making fun of me for drinking diet cokes, instead of beer, at the function I was at before this accident. I don't drink and drive, and this reinforced why.

R.

Oh, Robert. I am so sorry this happened. And yes, you don't have to think too hard to imagine how it could've been way, way worse.

Still, a bit of a bother to put it mildly. Glad you're okay, glad the car's in good hands. The rest will get taken care of.

Keep us posted.

Robert!

ACK!

My heart just sinks over the whole situation. The uncontrolled spin, collision and damaging the car are stress enough. I am so thankful neither you or anyone else were injured my friend. That is a ray of good news amongst all the mayhem.

thoughts are with you

-G

Robert, really sorry about what happened. Obviously glad you are unhurt...physically. I really feel for you and hope it turns out well. Good luck!

Those pictures brought tears to my eyes. Glad you're ok Robert. The car can be repaired. Keep us posted on progress.

WOW Robert glad you are ok, but man that sucks what happened to your car.

Jeff

Hey Robert, behind you all the way. Glad you're OK.

Michael

Robert, that's a real bummer but don't fret over the car. Metal can be fixed, flesh and bones another story. When in doubt give it more throttle. Chuck

Robert,

Thank God your ok ... and the car well you'll be in good hands with Jerry. Sorry for your misfortune.

I have spun out twice ..once on the street ...in front of about 5 cars and they came to a halt and watched me ... I put it back in gear and off I went legs shaking .. the other was on the track and it just made a large cloud of smoke ..funny how the ass comes around very fast ...

Ron

quote:

Originally posted by DeLoreans and DeTomasos:
glad you are unhurt...physically.

You are right...my brain keeps going back to it and I get a lot of anxiety. I feel so much safer in the Porsche now that I realize an accident CAN happen to me. Traction control, ABS, airbags all seem more important now.

You all know I will keep you up to date. The important thing will be what the insurance company thinks of PI's estimate to fix the car.

R.

Robert,

I had a similar issue with my Pantera and the insurance co when I bought it and shipped it from Cali to NY. The shipper smashed it. Once you get it to the shop of your choice .. the shop will work it out with the insurance co ... Mine was fixed ..it took a while ... but eventually they paid 11k.

Ron

Robert,
Glad you were not hurt. That is the main thing. From the pics it looks like it needs a fender, door skin and rear qtr. plus the suspension etc.

The decision to repair vs. total will be dependent on what the insurance company uses for the car's value. If they total it someone can and will put your car back on the road. I doubt anyone would part it out.

I have a question about your tires. How old and what brand? I have been told that certain tire compounds get very hard with age. This makes them very slick and it takes very little to cause them to break loose. Not sure if this was your issue for the accident, but it would be educational for me to know about your tires.

Again, glad you are OK and hopefully your insurance company will work things out to your satisfaction.

Take care, and keep us posted.
Jeff

Rob, glad to hear your OK. Hopefully it won't be too long to fix as the anxiety will shift to when you can get back in the seat...

Dude, that really sucks. But you know how much worse it could have been.

It doesn't look that bad. Not even close to a right-off. Just a little time and insurance aggro and it will be back better than before.

And btw, Porsches spin too. And cost a lot more to fix when this happens! Keep us posted.

Robert,

So sad to see what has happened to your car but glad you're not injured. It is very scary how quickly things can change and we have all been either very close to that edge, or like you, just past it.

Good luck with the repairs.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Pantera 4134:
I have a question about your tires. How old and what brand? Jeff

Pirelli P-Zeros purchased new about a year ago. Manufactured in January of 07. Never a nail.

R.

quote:

Originally posted by David B:
Dude, that really sucks. But you know how much worse it could have been.

It doesn't look that bad. Not even close to a right-off. Just a little time and insurance aggro and it will be back better than before.

And btw, Porsches spin too. And cost a lot more to fix when this happens! Keep us posted.

It could have been much worse. Sure, I know Porsches spin too. But you have to admit, modern safety equipment can give you a sense of security after sliding sideways into oncoming freeway traffic. :-)

I hope you are right, and that it is fixable. I can't imagine finding a replacement car that is so "me."

R.

Bummer about the car, my condolences but as always, the main thing is that no one was injured. Glad to hear you're OK!

Sorry for your loss Dude!!

I'm glad you are OK....the car can be fixed....

Damn, too bad dude, but you are ok and taking it ok it seems. Interesting to see you have fiber flares and how they held up. I have heard many "stories" of Pantera folks how you bump a fiber fender with your leg and it can come loose. However, on your car you can see although the fenders got wacked hard as hell, they are still intact and didn't come flying off.

MAN THAT SUCKS !!!......but remember, a car is JUST a MACHINE , and can be replaced,.........you ONLY HAVE ONE LIFE !!.....glad YOU are O.K......DAVE

I'm sorry to hear about this. Your car is definately repairable. The only question is how much it will be. Two fenders and a door.

I would say from my own personal experience Panteras do not like decreasing radius turns at speed. You have to decrease speed as the radius decreases. If you don't it will break away at some point. Many tires don't give you a lot of brake away warning. You should be running at least 35 psi. I start at 40 and work down. I can tell you that mine haven't been worked down at all from 40.

The secret is to drive the car like you are driving in snow...smooth. Steer and brake it with the throttle. If you stomp on the go or the stop, it doesn't like that.

I don't really think it is a fault of the car though. The Pantera is a very stable car at all speeds. Like small aircraft crashes these things are always put down to driver/pilot error. Other then that and maybe an oiled down road ( ). Yep, been there done that. (my own oil too...don't ask!)

Accentuate the positives. Your ok, no one else is hurt and the car is repairable.

quote:

Interesting to see you have fiber flares and how they held up. I have heard many "stories" of Pantera folks and vendors of how you bump a fiber fender with your leg and it can come loose. However, on your car you can see although the fenders got wacked hard as hell, they are still intact and didn't come flying off.

I wanted metal flairs but PI Motorsports told me this was a good car and I should buy it before the owner changes his mind. Turns out they were right. The flairs were added a long time ago, but the moldling/blending was beautiful and there are no cracks or flaws, well there weren't before the accident.

quote:

The secret is to drive the car like you are driving in snow...

I live in Vegas. I don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. I only recently learned that there are different tires for different seasons??? :-)

R.

quote:

Originally posted by RobertVegas:

quote:

The secret is to drive the car like you are driving in snow...

I live in Vegas. I don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. I only recently learned that there are different tires for different seasons??? :-)

R.

Robert,

Like everyone else I'm glad you are okay. This could so easily have been a lot worse for both you and the car, light panel damage and the car certainly looks very repairable. A-arms are usually designed to be the weak point that way they break and you don't have to do chassis straightening. What about the Campi wheel that was attached to it? Finding a replacemnent 14" width would be a challenge

Good luck,

Glad you are OK Robert and that no one was hurt, metal is secondary and your in good hands with Jerry.

Robert,
Wow, so glad you came out of this unscathed!
It's awful to see such a nice cat banged up like that, but all the long-term owners and experts are telling you it's fixable, so don't worry about it, just take it one day at a time with the insurance.

The question is, do you have a new quote to go with your avatar as a result of the experience? Michel's is priceless "Man, the Pantera is spacious, upside down you can lie flat on the padded roof!"

quote:

Originally posted by Joules5:
What about the Campi wheel that was attached to it? Finding a replacemnent 14" width would be a challenge.

The wheels look good. I don't think they were hit directly. There are a couple of small dings on the rear 14" but Dave said it is fine. Good things as "challenge" seems to be an understatement...I think finding a replacement would be impossible.

R.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ D:
The question is, do you have a new quote to go with your avatar as a result of the experience? Michel's is priceless "Man, the Pantera is spacious, upside down you can lie flat on the padded roof!"

I will think of something. Right now I am still pretty serious about the accident so it would be "thank goodness I am stubborn" because I tolerated hours of teasing for drinking soda instead of beer.

I will come up with something better when I am not so freaked out.

R.

quote:

Originally posted by RobertVegas:
Wrecked the Pantera.

I'm really sorry to hear that, and glad you are OK. It's a sickening feeling, getting out of your car to see how trashed it is.

quote:

Long story short: going around curve to get on freeway. Hit something slippery and tires don't just break loose, they spin like on ice. Car goes sidways and points me at a wall on the right. I take my foot off the gas (mistake) and the car spins around the other way and shoots me out into light traffic.

Hmmm, if it spun the other way, it sounds like you recovered from lifting off the throttle. Sounds more like the slow steering ratio hampered your second correction.

And yes, those high-performance tires suck on anything other than dry warm pavement. I learned that the hard way.

quote:

Not sure yet if it can be fixed. It will be a simple numbers game for the insurance company.

From the other comments so far, it sounds like at least that is going your way.

Mine is not fixed yet either.

Good luck, and a speedy recovery for your car.

Robert,
Glad you're OK. That's the most important thing. If your insurance totals it and you ever wanted a GT5S clone, this is the time.
Mike

Hi Robert,

You seem more than a little connected, so this isn't to imply otherwise. Just a recent experience.

In my claim, I found the adjuster very - shall we say - averse to certain phrases, very agreeable to others. All were true, non manipulative, without deceit, and we all emerged with our conscience intact. That, plus a few thousand justified dollars for certain adjustments.

This is a trying time for you. As the headaches and "What ifs" subside, give me a call or PM as you prefer. I'm on no time limit. Things worked out well on my end, but mine wasn't even remotely close to as serious as yours.

Just know I'll gladly recount my experience for you and hope it helps.

Wow! Bummer. I'm happy you are OK, it could have been a lot worse.
As for the car, it can be fixed, as you know. Dealing with an insurance company can be a pain, and a shop and person like Dave Adler can go a long way at making it less of a hassle for you.

If the insurance company needs a 2nd (or third) opinion I can recommend Julie Summerfield, as she has appraised numerous Panteras (typically before an incident), and if your car is in the Registry, its history of "Before" photos may help show the condition and help support value. So if I can be of any help let me know.

Chuck Melton
www.ProvaMo.com

A big THANK YOU to everyone that has offered assistance. I will certainly be taking some of you up on your offers.

Here is the new story. The insurance company decided that it can be fixed in Vegas, and won't pay to have it sent to an expert (PIM). So, I am loading it up on a trailer later this week, and leaving for PIM Saturday morning on my own dime.

I feel I need someone familiar with the car to figure out things such as the condition of the gas tank, etc. I also need their help in discussing dollars with the insurance company. As much as I love a certain body shop here in Vegas, how the heck are they supposed to know whether the integrity of the car is compromised? I'll bet they have never worked on a Pantera. How many places have?

So far I haven't talked to a single person at Allstate that has ever heard of my car, and I don't think they are enjoying this experience. I asked how a local body shop is supposed to know if my transaxle has been damaged...silence. I asked how a local body shop will know the best place to find replacement body panels, or a donor car...silence. Can we still get replacement parts for the headlight conversion, or will we need to convert both headlights to the newest version? How will they track down a replacement extended A-arm that came from an unknown Pantera parts place? Does that mean we will need to replace both? I don't know, will they? Well, I think PI will know. :-)

R.

quote:

So far I haven't talked to a single person at Allstate that has ever heard of my car, and I don't think they are enjoying this experience.

Uh....you have regular car insurance on a Pantera?