ZF to install

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I talked to a vender and told him I was going to saftey wire the ring gear, he said that is not nessisary unless the original bolts have been loosened. The original bolts have teeth that bite into the gear.

A VENDOR TOLD YOU THAT??!!!

Was that a Yugo vendor? I can not imagine any Pantera-knowledgeable vendor telling you that.

Yes, the stock ring gear bolts do have 'teeth', but due to the hardness of the ring gear, those teeth do not really get a bite. When they loosen, they begin to back out. Everything is fine until they get out far enough that on the next rotation they find a portion of the case to be slammed against. Being a very hard alloy, they (thankfully) snap off instead of jamming. And if the gods are smiling on you, that bolt head harmlessly falls down to the bottom of the case. But the gods are not always kind.

I will never forget the PCNC member who showed up at one of our tech sessions with a small Ziploc baggie. In that bag were ten bolts heads and five bolt thread sections.

He had used a coat hanger to fish all those pieces out the bottom drain hole of his ZF, after one piece plopped out into the oil drain pan while performing his first oil change on his newly acquired Pantera.

Amazingly, the only damage was a case crack, apparently caused when a piece was flung against the case, that was not of major concern. He was one of the VERY lucky ones.

Pantera Land is full of other incidences of bolt heads falling out during an oil change and cases ruined when they were cracked after a bolt head became jammed in the gears.

Bill, many owners have bought the safety-wiring kits (bolts and tool and wire) and done it themselves. Apparently it is not rocket science. I suggest you call a real vendor and order that kit.

The 'vendor' who gave you that advice is either ignorant or does not like you. Of course loose bolts need to be tightened - genius advice, there. The big question is WHY would they become loose? Because there was a design flaw, and they DO loosen.

The problem is you cannot check ring gear bolts with the ease of checking the engine oil. Your first hint of a problem may be the horrendous bang when your case cracks, gears are destroyed, and you find yourself (hopefully) at the side of the road with that nagging voice in your head...

'Why did I listen to that STUPID vendor?"

Larry

5000 dollars later. Here it is. I'm going to have to safety wire it. Any pointers?

Put a bell on it.

I've been using Redline MTL in all of my cars with manuals, except the Pantera. I just haven't got to it yet.

Gary Hall told me to try it a while back and I can tell you that it is a very interesting formulation.

It makes shifting easier but more precise, like it was a new gear box. Frankly, my ZF could use a little of that medicine.

If you go to their web site you will read the reason it is made. I suppose to paraphrase it, it is fully synthetic gear lube, with special friction modifiers added for the synchros.

See. Full synthetic gear lube is too slippery for your synchros and they won't slow down the spinning gears properly. It's kinda like oiling your brake pads. The pads need friction to work.

The MTL has those friction modifiers and makes the trannie feel tight and precise. Like I said, my ZF can use that.

I have been using full syn 75-90 Valvoline. It works fine in all but third...that pesky grind. Now I have a spare ZF so instead of shifting easy. I can just jam it into third without fear. I don't know if it grinds less but it but it does grind a shorter period of time! How come my new dash2 is missing the top rear fill plug?

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How come my new dash2 is missing the top rear fill plug?

Dash 2 doesn't have one.

John

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Originally posted by jb1490:

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How come my new dash2 is missing the top rear fill plug?

Dash 2 doesn't have one.

John

Some do.

Mike

The dash 1 is out, but there is a bushing holder that is pressed in the rear of the crank, any idea on how to get it out? I got the needle bearing out fine. The bearing holder is a larger dia, hopfully the same size as my new pilot bush. I made a tool to push grease in but it ain't moving. Don't make me get a bigger hammer???

What I did was take a tap and thread it in. When it hit the crank it pressed the bushing out. It was a while ago. Might have been a 1/2 "? Don't remember the size?

This is the bush that comes out, the new one in my hand. I'm surprized that the flywheel has hot spots all over it, in only 5000 miles

I cut a slot on each side. I just knew this would work. It slipped, I clamped it. I'm soaking it now while I regroup.

The fried flywheel. only 5000 miles. Never felt like it slipped. I did a burn out just before removing, Would it do that much?

Only the forged steel units do this. Seems to be normal for them? I do not think it was slipping. The steel gets hot spots on it. The stock iron doesn't do this as much. You really don't need a steel flywheel. They are a major PITA to resurface.

You have to use a diamond studded surfacing wheel and make about three passes just to get it flat and the hot spots out.

Next time I'm going to an aluminum flywheel.

Try a 3/8 npt tap (plumbing size). Looks like it is the right one. They are cheap and you can get them in a good hardware store. Should be $10.

If you can't get it to press the bushing out then you can thread a pipe fitting into it that you can grab with the puller.

Common Billy, this ain't that hard?

Doug, The internel is smaller than the roller pilot that came out. I broke a tap in it. Figures, I went back to the outside slots.. This finally worked. Everyone should know that the peice I took out is an Italian bushing that extends the back of the crank and hods the pilot bush for the dash1 only. Dash2 does not require this piece because the output shaft is LONGER. And a larger end tip that penetrates the bush.

Here is how it fits the dash 1 shaft. The bushing I'm holding was the problem to remove. The slots I cut to accept the puller. The washers were just spacers because the 3/8 push bolts were so short.

Hey Bill those little things are worth a few bucks to anyone that has a Goose or Dash 1 ZF.....somebody on here was looking for one a while back.

You should at least get the dimensions and post so its recorded for future reference.

Julian

1.28 inch total length 1.375 out dia .510 length of area inserted in crank .682 deep are that holds roller pilot that is bored .825 dia The nose is cut down to 1.265 with a taper on the end. A smaller hole goes all the way through to ease removal if you have the right tool.

I got my flywheel back, it is slick like polished.

It's pretty but your clutch is going to slip on it.
There are specs for the clutch that require a certain finished grit on it.
I don't remember it but the shop should know this.
The steel flywheel require a diamond stone cutter to do it right. Mine required three passes.

Few shops use the diamond stone. It's too expensive and very few people have steel flywheels these days.

That's what I think too, but one of my old time race a four speed buddy says it looks great. The pressure plate is cast and you can feel the machine grooves in it, a lot courser finish. My friend says that being slick like it is gives more surface area to grab, makes sense to me... like a drag slick. Anybody else want to chime in here?

From here it looks like steel. As soon as I saw those hot spots I said to myself, "yup, steel". Just an incorrect reaction. Sorry.

I do not really consider myself a clutch expert.
Let me explain my own personal experience with clutches. 1)Ford Van, 302, 5 clutches 2)92 Taurus SHO 4 clutches 3)98 Contour SVT Vortech Supercharger, 4 clutches 4)73 Pantera, 2 clutches
5)68 GT350, 3 clutches 6)67 Shelby GT500, 1 clutch. I think I got them all?

What did Jimmy Hendricks say? Are you experienced? I think I qualify?

The flywheel looks to shinny? I think it is gonna slip?

...oh and as the Southern Evangelist might say, "Brothers and Sisters, I feel you pain!".

My 2¢

My first thought on seeing that surfaced flywheel was.....

Too shiny, too smooth, not correct and going to slip.

Here is a shot of my stock Ford flywheel after surfacing.

Larry

And a closeup of my stock pressure plate after rebuilding and surfacing.

Maybe it's not as slick as you think.

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Maybe it's not as slick as you think.

Yea, that shot isn't nearly as scary-smooth looking.

...Yes, Pilot Bearing; Right! Did You try the NEW Bearing on the -2 Input Shaft, Dia.= .6695" (17mm)? The Dash 1 has a Smaller Input Shaft at 15mm. I Machined one Pilot Bearing for a Customer with a Beautiful GT-40; the Machine had a different Brand Transaxle than the ZF, That Input Shaft was Only 12mm in Diameter!! The Flywheel will Not Slip!! Just BE SURE to clean Both Surfaces; Flywheel And Pressure Plate, with 'Lacqure Thinner' before Installing. And have You touched the 'Disk' with Your Fingers Yet?? That's a No-No, Nothing touches the Disk; and Do Not try to clean it! You pick the Disk up with a finger through the center hole. Any grease on the Disk face can start it slipping...

quote:

Originally posted by MARLIN JACK:
...Yes, Pilot Bearing; Right! Did You try the NEW Bearing on the -2 Input Shaft, Dia.= .6695" (17mm)? The Dash 1 has a Smaller Nose... some are 15mm and others are 12mm! The Flywheel will Not Slip!! Just BE SURE to clean Both Surfaces; Flywheel And Pressure Plate, with 'Lacqure Thinner' before Installing. And have You touched the 'Disk' with Your Fingers Yet?? That's a No-No, Nothing touches the Disk; and Do Not try to clean it! You pick the Disk up with a finger through the center hole. Any grease on the Disk face can start it slipping. You Did ALL those clutch replacements? I wonder if You did any Correctly? Proves one thing!! Your Experienced at Burning them Up!...

Thanks Marlin. You're such a pal. I didn't burn them all up. I had help.

....Hi Doug! I was just 'Rattling Your Cage'! Didn't want to offend You so I removed the writing. I'am sure You have 'Tons' of experience; All needed Here! And You did the Clutch replacements Correctly!! After All; What do I know??...

Were they all done correctly? Hum I'll send you the DVD's and you can grade them for me?

I will say that out of the three Centerforce clutches I've done, the only one that has not caused some level of grief or disillusionment is the Pantera.

As it was explained to me, the clutch that we have now is essentially the same as what was initially invented for an engine that only fully developed 30 hp.

That factor right there explains alot of where the issues come from. That and the fact that when you are behind the wheel of a 500hp vehicle there is a slight tendency to want to stretch ones legs and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.

There are some thing that clutches just don't like, amongst them things like nitrous oxide, superchargers, Weber carbs, sticky tires, front wheel drive.

Oh, and it isn't that they don't like me, they just heard that I take a lot of them in, along with cats, and they want to help their homeless friends find good homes, and they know that will happen here.

FWIW, here's some info on flywheels:

http://www.ramclutches.com/cri...billet_flywheels.htm

John

I have the -2 in the car but the shift shaft hits the universal shaft. Looking back at the shiter box attached to the trans they are different. The das1 in the frist pic has the shaft coming out at a higher plane. ???

About a half inch lower, see the boss on the side of trans?

This where the linkage hits. I thought about turning the shaft around so the adjustment is close to the trunion?

Bill,

The ZF shift shaft and axle/u-joint is a fixed dimension, so the trunnion in your early car must be in a different place creating the angle. Take a photo of that and maybe it's as easy as use a slightly longer trunnion or change the mounting point.

Julian

You may be able to adjust the trunnion up higher if you have enough thread left. The trunnion on my early 71 (not pushbutton) is adjusted all the way up. There's about one half of a thread showing below the bottom nut.

John

My trunion is all the way down and worn. More parts needed

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My trunion is all the way down and worn.

While you are waiting for a new trunnion, try adjusting it up to see if that solves the problem. Also, check for clearance forward of the trunnion .

If you still need more clearance, try your suggestion of turning the shaft end for end so that the adjuster is forward instead of aft.

If you haven't done so already, start soaking the bolts and the shaft ends where they enter the u-joints.

John

Good news... I moved the trunion up, it is still worn out, but by removing my shifter plate and getting an extra spline at the rear linkage I have 5 forwards and 1 reverse! All gears shift smooth. This job is finished. Thanks Bill 1362

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I have 5 forwards and 1 reverse!

Great news Bill!! Glad to hear that it was a "simple" fix.

What is the "extra spline" that you mentioned?

John

With the sloppy trunion. I just had to rotate the shift shaft 1 spline to catch 4-5. I'm just happy that I bought a ZF untested sitting since 1980 and it works fine. Thanks to Ron Parapantera for checkin' it out visually!