#1905 Part Duex

As long as the ring is not removed, the input shaft alignment should remain correct. If Quicktime can not help me, then I was going to orient the bellhousing "right side up" and level it to the zf. Then I was going to transfer punch where the holes need to be correctly located and drill and tap them on a mill. Since the bellhousing locates on the lip of the zf and not simply flush to it, I believe rotating it will not affect input shaft alignment. I will contact Quicktime Monday and let you know what they say.
I knew there would be days like this.....

Additionaly, either redrilling the holes or rotating the mouting ring, would mean the cutouts in the bellhousing would not align with the new hole location. I don't consider this to be a problem unless you're trying to access nuts at these mounting locations. I am going to stud my bellhousing like my original, so I won't need that access. Just another point to think about.
Wow, cam problems too huh? What did you get us into?

LOL, cams, not on this engine. Next time you get a cam from comp or crane mic it!!! You might be suprised how off they are and with problems such as dips after the base circle before the lift which is good for a bounce. All within what they call "Acceptable tolerances".

Just general problem of after market parts in general.

We'll get them to make it right; if not for us then the next ones. I don't mine drilling and tapping knew holes; especially since before locating either of the 2 bell housings I was planning on making one from scratch!

quote:

Originally posted by Pittcrew:

I knew there would be days like this.....

Ah, this is small stuff!

Gary,
I just got off the phone with Ross McCombs from Quicktime. We had been playing phone tag for a few days.Really nice guy.

I explained the problem I was having using the 8012 in a Pantera.
He had no Idea that there was another car that would use a different orientation.That is why the web site doesn't list a application as he thought there was only one application. I mentioned that Tim Meyer had bought one for a Pantera application also and he might hear from him. He seemed to recognize Tims name.

I guess there is a racing company that deals with GT40's(real and otherwise) and they are the ones that had designed the bellhousing for Quicktime. Ross said that company buys 100-200 bells a year for that application.

He said they did not have anything for my application(obvious since he didn't know the P car used one) but that he would look into having the exisiting inventory and future production drilled with both patterns. That way they can accomodate both applications. I asked him to make a note on their web site so people would know.

I told him I thought P car owners were using their small block bells because they are the only ones I know of that are SFI certified.Doesn't the racing sanctioning bodies require that? I know they do for Drag racing. Apparently no other P car owners have used the bell because this is the first he heard about a problem.

Ross said they would do the dual pattern on all their future ZF applications.
He said it was a simple change in the computor.

I told him that I was going to have mine drilled and he mentioned that I needed to be cautious about drill breakage. As he explained it to me the bolt pattern is drilled after welding and the notches by the holes are for a relief so the drill doesn't follow the bell and break as it goes through the hole. He said the bits they use are $100 ea and he didn't want to break them. He said the bell is formed at 180,000 psi and is much stronger than the mounting ring. He suggested starting the hole with at drill and finishing it with a end mill so it wouldn't have the wondering problem.

I talked to him about the flywheel and he said they list the 184 tooth because on a FE and a 460 that is the smallest you can go before the starter hits the block.
He said, (Just like you found out) that I could run a 176 tooth because there was room to move the starter if needed.He said the block is the deciding factor on the flywheel and maybe I could even go smaller that 176 if there is room but he didn't know for sure. He said their small block bells are designed for a 157 tooth flywheel.

Now you know what I know about it. Sorry this post is so wordy but I wanted you to have all the info he gave me.

Brook...BRAVO on the leg work!!!! I talked about it with Tim a little before I left for flight training. I have not been able to follow up as I will be consumed for the next week and a half.

The information you gave is excelent! Thank you for the info on drilling!

We get breaks durring the day so I do get a chance to check the emails ocasionally. Off to do laundry!

Gary

quote:

Originally posted by Pittcrew:
Ross said they would do the dual pattern on all their future ZF applications.
He said it was a simple change in the computor.

Since your bellhousing is unused, could you suggest swapping yours for a new one already drilled with the dual pattern? It would save you some time and aggrevation and insure it was done correctly.

Michael

Heck, just mount the ZF upside down like it is in the GT40. It will give you a lower center of gravity so your car will handle better. Just slow down for pot holes in the road though.

Michael,
While Ross said the change in the computor was a simple fix he didn't know when he would be able to incorporate it into the existing inventory and production.

He also said that he would have to figure out something for the relief notches in the bell.
Dual bolt patterns would double the amount of notches required for relief when drilling.
He wasnt sure how to address that.He also stated that the existing inventory does not have the notches and that might be a problem.
I guess the CNC machines drill and tap holes super fast which is why the breakage consideration.

I am taking my bellhousing to a good machine shop that will drill it. The operation will be done on a milling machine by hand so I feel I won't have a drill breakage problem. Locating the holes will be no problem.

Doing it this way I will have my bellhousing done by Monday and can move on to other aspects of the swap. No additional shipping time/cost and no waiting for Quick Time to get set up on their end.

As Gary had stated, getting the changes made is for people that want to do the swap or update to a SFI scattershield type bellhousing in the future.

I also made sure to point out that the Pantera runs the Transaxle right side up, its the GT40 guys that are upside down.

Sorry to highjack your forum Gary, you can have it back now.

quote:

Originally posted by Pittcrew:
Sorry to highjack your forum Gary, you can have it back now.

LOL, Fine with me! Your doing good!

Bellhousing done with both patterns.
Drilled fine no problems at all.With all of the set up it took about 2 1/2 hours.
The holes catch the edge of the weld so we just went slow when breaking through. Tapped no problem. I tapped it to 3/8NC like the existing holes. My original bellhousing is 10mm-1.50.

Mounts to my ZF perfectly.

Getting some work done to the Aluminum hood. Weld 2", let it cool, weld 2", etc. Grind it smooth, about 1/2 welded up so far. Coming out better then I expected:

Looking good Gary !

Beautiful Car, Very nice work...

Are you going to incorporate the ducting to the Rad into the hood or mount it to the car?

The duct work will ne mounted to the car. It will block off all airflow under the car and leaves enough room for the brake MC and booster.

Have you chosen a clutch?

I haven't chosen a clutch yet.
I hung out at the Turbomustangs forum for a while when I was doing research on a turbo project. This was a few years ago.

A lot of the guys were complaining about driving through their Centerforce clutches when the boost came on early.
As a design characteristic, diaphram clutches need RPM to apply peak pressure. This is bad in a engine that develops a ton of low end torque like a small turbo application. By small I mean quick spooling.
The good side to the design is low pedal effort
.
The good side to a Long or Borg and Beck style is immediate high application pressure,which makes them good for drag racing, but the down side of high effort required to apply them.

Most of the high power guys on the turbomustangs forum went with this brand and were very happy.These appear to be diaphram clutches also but they work. I was going to talk to them when I got to that point.

http://www.specclutch.com/

IIRC didn't the Pantera require a pressure plate modification to clear the ZF bellhousing?
I don't think that will be a problem with the QT bell.

If you contact Spec let me know what they say.

The entire outside edge and the inside hole ahs all been welded up and smoothed. It is amazing how time consuming this is. The hood is hinged and now I am working on inner structure which is going well. I wasn't sure I would get this far with it. This is my first large aluminum from scratch project and so far it is close enough I could simply polish it and it would be ok:

It looks excellent ... keep up the good work ... me i;m working on the floors.

Ron

Floor board replacement?