4.6 3 valve install. 2008 gt. Anyone done one?

I thought someone would have chimed in by now. Anyway not a 3 valve but Richard Barkley has a good article on what he went thru to get a modular motor in a Pantera. Dave Doddeck has another article about what he did. And I think it was MadGuy who did a 5.4 install.
Steve Wilkinson of Panteras by Wilkinson has installed a few. He went to the trouble in the 1990s to get the 4.6 swap smog approved in California. He would probably have the special parts and great info it takes. If you search this site and realbig.com/detomaso you will find info on how to get the articles mentioned earlier.

Good Luck,
David

Thanks for the reply, Its obvious you've done your homework. I called Wilkersons and yes they seem to have done up to years 03-04, but not any newer than that. I am pretty sure Its not going to much different but it would be nice if someone has done one or knows someone with a 3 valve 4.6 install.
The articles I've found don't really give a idea of what the car performed or dynoed like before and after so I think I might start posting some pics and dyno sheets on my Build for anyone else. Im looking to dive into it in a month or two.

By all means share the info. Before and after on the same dyno would be sweet. Getting the electrical, motor mounts and engine fitment, exhaust system, fuel system, as well as the cooling and a/c changes sorted out is quite an exercise. The thing that catches me out is all the "might as well" things I get sidetracked on. If you are not going with power steering, I think that you can use a power steering pump eliminator kit.

BTW, Wilkinson is currently installing two 2006 5.4 aluminum supercharged motors at his shop.

FWIW, there was a nice early car with a home-installed DOHC 5.4 at the '09 Reno Fun rally. It appears the 5.4 is easier to install since the taller block causes the gigantic heads to rise up over the inner fender panels. With the shorter 4.6s (any variety), notches must be welded in the leading edges of the inner fenders and small pieces sawed off the heads for clearance.

I am currently in the process of installing a DeTomaso/Wilkinson homologated 4.6 DOHC in my 1974 DeTomaso Pantera.

In the late 90's and early 2000's Santiago DeTomaso and Steve Wilkinson worked on the project with Ford for the Guara, Bigua (vis Qvale Mangusta) and as a replacement motor for the Pantera.

Earlier this year, Wilkinson's had a few of these complete engine "kits" still available.

My engine has a custom harness and MOTEC engine management system. DeTomaso CARB certification required engine dyno results. The chart indicated 360ish crank hp and torque in the same range. I spoke to Richard Barkley. With his tuned Ford engine management system, during "dyno days" in SoCal, he said he gets over 290 rwhp with about the same torque.

FWIW, All Rear-Wheel Drive 4.6 short blocks are basically the same in mounting geometry. There are differences in the Italian Teksid block, Windsor aluminum blocks and the cast iron blocks, but, as I say, the mounting geometry is the same. Heads, intakes, pistons, cranks, con-rods, accessories etc, varied depending on the engine. The 3-valve SOHC motor will have the same basic 4.6 block albeit in cast iron.

Here are some facts:

1) The inner fenders DO NOT have to be modified if you are installing the engine in 7000 or earlier series cars with appropriate engine mounts. The outer part of the heads need a small amount of material ground off for the DOHC motor but I am not sure if the SOHC 3V will require this - my educated guess is yes.

2) The following modifications to the engine bay are required:
i) Removal of the lower frame rail cross member that runs between the forward lower A-Arm mounts. It is replaced with a removable piece to clear the oil pan
ii) Removal of the coolant recirculating tank bracket mounted on the forward right inner fender apron for engine head clearance.
iii) Optional: Removal of the bracket holding the Emergency Brake cable lever arm and replacement with Dennis Q's (PPC) removable E-brake X-member. Makes installing the engine easier.

Optional: The engine came with a power steering pump. The recommended mod is to delete it by using a smaller belt with altered routing. Personally, I chose to replace the power steering pump with a Power Steering delete kit from KarKraft so I can always use the standard belt.

I plan to do an article on the installation after I complete it.

B.G.

andriyko I wish we were alittle closer in miles so we could compare note on the build. I am setting up a dyno day, so I will have some pictures of the car and dyno graph once I figure how to post pics and graphs, anyone got any advice on that?.
The power steering is something I hadn't thought of yet, wouldn't it be great to have powersteering?. Who do you go to get that rack?. how much?.

I am going to use the stock harness have my computer burned here locally as the guys there can tune the car and then after all is done, I will probably stick a Kenny Bell on it and see 500Rwhp?. Will the tranny hold up?, or the half shafts.

I build ls-2s in 67-69 camaros and all corvettes we integrate the wiring from the ls2 into the old cars. The gain there is anyone (dealerships) can plug in a do diagnosis.

I would love to install a ls2 but no one has done that yet.
Anyone closer to Oklahoma than Canada?

Power Steering ... Wilkinson has the rack suitably set up for the DeTomaso Pantera. The price is less than the stock rack.

I like the stock steering feel.

There is no problem Supercharging the engine. No concerns with hp. The only challenge is to set up a system where you get cool fresh intake air - otherwise the pressure is limited. Also, in order to install a supercharger you will need to move your engine/transaxle back about 3/4 inch. This means a small mod to the rear transaxle mounting lugs on the car or modified transaxle mounts.

Sorry, can't help with Is2s.

B.G.

Interesting. I talked to wilkerson and he said nothing about moving the transaxle back but I believe you to be right. When are you starting on your R&r of the motor?.

Supercharging: You will need to move the engine/transaxle back 3/4 inch in order to clear the supercharger snout pully drive from the engine firewall (unless you design a custom snout drive).

Sorry, what is meant by R&r ?

For Info, I have the Ford Cobra 4.6 DOHC Shop Manual and Engine Electrical harness manual. When I compare items in the manuals to the DeTomaso DOHC 4.6 I noted quite a number of modifications. Some examples include: Modified Intake; Unique harness; Unique engine management system; No O2 sensor; Modified coolant tubes and routing; Modified Oil pressure sensor provision; Modified engine mounts (not surprising); Modified engine to ZF bell housing; Modified starter; Modified ...

And finally, the engine and transaxle are all polished and suitably badged. A real beauty.

Removal and Reinstallation?. Moving the transaxle back. Anyone done this?, Does the transmission hit the frame?.
My car had extreme rust in the rear so we cut the whole rear frame off and rebuilt it and the suspension parts. Its now stiffer and built like a race car in the rear, so I guess I don't mind going pretty far out on the rest of the car because it will never be original now.

Has anyone come up with any rocker panels that make the car look lower, I plan on incorporating the air scoops for intake in them.

Hello Mod motor considerers. Well I took my car and another friends pantera to the Dyno to see what the rear wheel horsepower came up to and was I dissappointed!. My car has a roar and lope like a big block, The guy that I bought the car from said it was a 400 hp engine. Well My car was with new distributer new plugs, well new everything only put down 218 rwhp and 273.23 rwtq. My friends only did 194 rwhp and 240.88 rwtq. I had a perfect air fuel but the engine ran out of steam at about 5,000 rpm. Is this all you guys are getting out of your pretty much stock panteras??.
I am posting this because in about a couple of months hopefully I will have installed the 4.6 in the car, I will try to take some pics, but I am stripping the car and redoing everything at this point.

With a 351C, the whole powertrain can go back about 3/4" before the step in the oil pan hits the rear crossmember. When a big block engine is installed, the Byars Bros shift the powertrain back around 4" but that takes new motormounts, new Zf mounts, a notch in the A/C shroud and (likely) a dual-sump oil pan.

Two years ago I installed a 04 cobra engine in the Pantera with a Whipple charger on top. Since I didnt want to move the engine and transaxel further back I modified the back wall and cut the rear window a bit (you dont see much out there anyway). Also used the power steering and hydro boost from the Mustang. The steering geometry turned out to be almost perfekt without any bumpsteer and very quick. Took a trip to the dyno and it came out at 460rwhp with proper mapping it will probably give around 500hp torque was 550nm. Also did not want to cut in the inner fenders for the heads because the bracket for the upper a arm is on the outside but it took some cuting of the heads to squees down the engine. The response from the new engine over the hole rpm range is fenomenal. Most of the jobb was to get all of these f....ng hoses properly routed, used 80 feet of them (unbelivable)So good luck with your engine conversions.

Janne

Janne,

How about some pictures???

THanks,
Ron

Not Pantera related, but I have a 5.4l 3V in my daily, great torquey engines, not a big revver though.
Made almost 320 hp @ wheels n/a unopened and then I turboed it with 7 psi made over 430 hp @ wheels !
still makes all that under 5000 RPM !
Oh still... unopened !

The RBT six speed is about an inch longer than a std ZF 5 speed and Panteras have been converted to teh 6 speed so there is that much readily available. You could probably even use the longer offset 6 speed mounting tabs to gain an inch with a std ZF.

The 4 inches Jack talks about is a lot, the Byars big block conversion I saw was nowhere near that amount. Half shaft u-joints won't like turning at that acute an angle so you'll probably be looking at CV axles if you need that amount of rearward movement.

Julian

quote:

Also used the power steering and hydro boost from the Mustang. The steering geometry turned out to be almost perfekt without any bumpsteer and very quick.

Could you provide more info on this?

Thanks,
John

the latest issue of MM&FF has an article on the 3v 5.4L. Interesting stuff. They seem potent. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

quote:

My car has a roar and lope like a big block, The guy that I bought the car from said it was a 400 hp engine. Well My car was with new distributer new plugs, well new everything only put down 218 rwhp and 273.23 rwtq. My friends only did 194 rwhp and 240.88 rwtq.

As a reference, my 90,000 mile original 351C with Hall headers, Edelbrock Performer intake, Holley 670 Avenger, and Mallory Unilite electronic ignition produced 249+ rwhp on the chassis dyno.

Here are some links to modular engine conversions:
http://www.banzairunnerpantera...ular_conversions.htm