Air conditioning piping runs

The hoses originally enter the cabin in the lower corner of the firewall as shown in this photograph. Poor photo, but note the reference point of my seatbelt anchor in the inner sill.

Larry

Some people have used hard line. Recently owners have been taking advantage of a very easy do it yourself replacement hose sold by vintage air under their trade name and available from Aeroquip in their EZclip system.

It is very noticeably smaller in diameter and very easy to route in tight radiuses.
I noted your current hoses are listed for R12 Freon so I do imagine you will be replacing all of the hoses for the new Sanden and converting to 134a?

this is the hose I used in my recent projects and I was able to add both hoses to the right hand sill area

The current 90° fitting on your evaporator could be replaced with a 180° fitting which combined with the smaller, new hose would likely be a solution to your space encroachment problem

Larry

Thanks Larry .  This would  explain many strange layout issues with these hoses.

I just had a look and will attempt to pull them out and reroute them . They are in there tight!

I take it the run up the center is in the harness loops on the RHS of the tunnel. The pipes then run to the RHS of the gearstick tunnel and then up into the AC connections ?

And yes - I will pull them out. If I can get a better hose solution as you suggest ,I will, as the existing hose is not a suitable barrier hose for 134a.

The compressor is already set up for 134a so it would be silly to go any other way.

Is it a kit or do you have to buy individual items?

Larry -Is this the type of Kit that could be adapted ?

I think the die is cast. Old hoses have come out in several pieces....

Percy,

The RH sill A/C hose routing is correct on a later car like yours, heater pipe through the center console. If I recall my hoses exit higher up over the fuse panel. It appears the congestion in your case is compounded by the fact your car has been converted to RHD. It would be good to reach out to a RHD owner and see how the factory routed the hoses on those cars. Maybe ping Johnny Woods with a PM and I bet he will know off the top of his head.

When converting to R134a it's not imperative to change the hoses, it is critical to flush the system and use ester oil (not PAG or mineral oil).

Buying a kit for a Pantera, with its far from normal hose routing will likely give you extra hose in some sizes and inadequate  hose in some sizes than you actually require. Same with the fittings.

www.hosewarehouse.com

this is the supplier I used for almost all of my material. They appear to have everything in stock, they ship very promptly, and their pricing is competitive.

The Eaton Aeroquip website is a good resource for learning what fittings are available

Larry

Use the Aeroquip fittings and clamps with supreme confidence.  I have set up the AC systems in many Pantera's using these hoses and fittings.  Not only never a failure, but they are more flexible, narrower diameter lines and provide the ability to clock the fittings perfectly in situ that results in a superior optimization of available space.  The clamps are of high quality and nothing like the worm gear setup associated with coolant lines.  JT seal of approval!

Marlin is absolutely correct, if the hose clamps used with the EZ clip system were  just another version of the hose clamps we use on coolant rubber hoses. But while they may look similar, they are part of an entirely new system.

The clamps used are click and lock and will never loosen from vibration like a standard worm-screw hose clamp.

part of the system is a “cage” which firmly indexes onto the fitting and serves to firmly and permanently capture the clamps in their correct position.

https://youtu.be/a3k1zDGNujI

This system is used by our military on their equipment and you can often find surplus hoses and fittings on eBay  

Larry

👍👍

Thanks all - I think I have all of the information required to sort out what has been one of more awkward layout issues on this car.  I will be running it through the firewall opening around and up the rhs center sill . The removal of the lines from crossing over above the drivers feet provides around 30mm extra  clearance in front of the upper pedal area  under the dash - It sounds minor but I expect it to be a noticeable  improvement . Never  an issue on LHD layouts but a significant one here.

Finally, one last question,  with 134a swap do you need to replace the TX valve?

@Percy posted:

Finally, one last question,  with 134a swap do you need to replace the TX valve?

Some might say not needed, but I say change it for optimal performance between high and low pressure side and having gone this far what's an extra ~$30. A new dryer is a must too. Be sure to flush out the evaporator core and condenser thoroughly if reusing. The PAG oil used with the R134a is not compatible with the old mineral oil in the R12 system. Ester oil is a good way to go to avoid problems from any residual mineral oil.

S/N 1744 which is a very early car has the AC hoses routed in the passenger rh sill.  They exit and connect to the compressor which is on the right side of the car.  I don't see how AC lines would ever route in the center spine with the shift rod.

You need to remember our cars are 50 years old and what was done previous to our ownership in most cases is totally unknown.

The air conditioning hoses on 2511 ran right through the central tunnel, on the right hand side of the shifter mechanism. I, like thousands of owners, never noticed any shifting problems with the hoses in that location.

Larry

On our '72 L, the evaporator valve under the dash had a 'final filter' in the side arm going to the evaporator core. It was a small (1/4" OD) filter of fine copper screen rolled into a 1/2" long cone. The screen appears hand made. It was completely blocked by tiny pieces of rubber from the hoses, bits of disintegrated dryer pellets, reddish flakes and who knows what else. Hooked it out with a scribe and soaked it in paint thinner for a while, then flushed with solvent & returned it to duty.

Because r-134a is a poorer AC fluid than R-12, higher flow is reportedly needed to get adequate cooling, so shops remove the screen if its there. An evaporator valve suitable for r-134a supposedly uses a different calibration spring inside that valve. If you want, the screen will fit (loosely) in any valve. I once cut apart a 40-yr old  OEM dryer can and it appeared to be 1/3 full of concrete/oil sludge like you'd find in an old neglected engine's crankcase. No trace of 'dryer pellets' as such. This is why the screen was in the OEM system, I guess.

Bosswrench

That information is gold. I will crawl in there and see if I can locate the final  filter while  it is all apart. I will get a new TX valve for  r-134a while its in bits. I only want to do this once.

Larry - the photo you posted is interesting.

If you look at the bare floor pan photo of 6997 you can see the 4 spot welded loops on the RHS of the central tunnel which were sized to contain the hoses in that run location. 2511 does not seem to have these retention tabs in your photo - perhaps a later factory addition to contain the hoses ?

FWIW, dryer cans in both brazed-steel and aluminum are readily available in various heights & diameters. I'm currently using an aluminum one for some sort of semi-tractor that's 1-1/2" shorter than stock but 1" larger in OD from NAPA. It fits up front in one of the sculpted depressions in the front trunk near where the stock battery once fit. I use a dropped battery and a front-mounted AC condenser

The only tricky thing I ran into is, the threaded ports in this can are cut for 45 degree flair fittings. I took a 37 degree double-male aluminum AN fitting of the proper thread and changed one side to 45 degrees with a file in a drill press chuck. I scratched '45' on that side for the benefit of the next poor mechanic that works on the car's AC. All the rest of my lines & fittings are 37 degree AN.

I'm in the middle of installing my new A/C system. I'm looking at your pic of the A/C lines you have thru the center console on the car with the silver Dynamat looking sound/heat material. It looks like the hard heater lines are ran below inside the tunnel under shifter mount (is this a European thing or model?). I'm thinking  running both A/C and heater lines on top will be to crowded for the shifter. My heater lines are on top and look to be factory soft copper. My car is a 71 and A/C lines were ran thru RH door sill. I won't even try to run the new ones back in there cause just pulling the old ones out was almost impossible . Do I need to hack a hole in the firewall behind RH seat near the heater line hole to rout new A/C lines or maybe run the A/C line thru the heater line hole and reroute the heater lines. Do you have more pics?

An old thread, but does anyone happen to have a list of the Aeroquip ez-clip parts required to reinstall an AC system?

I have lived without AC in my GT5 for 17 years, but a I get older creature comforts are becoming more important to me and more importantly the wife! I currently have half the interior out to replace the throttle cable so it’s a good time to do this project before the trek to Monterey in August!

Thanks!

Hi Joules

Excel sheet attached. Prices were as per three months back.

Allows for rotary sanden compressor with o rings.

I hope this assists

Percy

Just ran back through it as a check - may be worth adding in a  FF14171 Clip & Cage Kit so you have a spare no 6 cage and clips. Its another $5 but you can probably afford it ......!

Thanks Percy, that’s exactly what I needed, I can get parts ordered and be there by the time I get home. I already got the Sanden SD7H15 compressor and will get the aftermarket condenser and squirrel cage heater motor too!

That’s how my hoses are running

I 1st bought the rebuilt stock a/c heater box that was modified with a extra fan speed from the guy up in LA and that was a good purchase. I bought his pre maid  A/C lines and that was a wast of good money. The lines were all clocked wrong an unusable. What I did was made up all of my lines with all the right fittings, marked and clocked them right and went back to my local A/C guy and had him swedge them. It took several trips down to my A/C guy to get it all plumbed. I charged the system with nitrogen and let it sit for 48 hours and re checked the pressure  for leaks. This was the biggest pain in the ass I have ever experienced working on a car and if I would charge someone to do this job it would be so much they probably wouldn't have me do it. The only thing I like about the Pantera  is the way it looks, My 70 T/A will lay waste to it on a road course, top speed or the 1/4 mile. After owning one I can see why they get crashed when driven aggressively. They do look cool though.  

@Donny Dotson posted:

I 1st bought the rebuilt stock a/c heater box that was modified with an extra fan speed from the guy up in LA and that was a good purchase. I bought his pre maid  A/C lines and that was a wast of good money. The lines were all clocked wrong an unusable. What I did was made up all of my lines with all the right fittings, marked and clocked them right and went back to my local A/C guy and had him swedge them. It took several trips down to my A/C guy to get it all plumbed. I charged the system with nitrogen and let it sit for 48 hours and re checked the pressure  for leaks. This was the biggest pain in the ass I have ever experienced working on a car and if I would charge someone to do this job it would be so much they probably wouldn't have me do it. The only thing I like about the Pantera  is the way it looks, My 70 T/A will lay waste to it on a road course, top speed or the 1/4 mile. After owning one I can see why they get crashed when driven aggressively. They do look cool though.  

I do have to speak up because  the Pantera is not what you say it is!  Many people with money  buy stuff, but do not know how to handle it… An experienced driver and with experienced, I mean somebody who has the technical knowledge and has the feel for the machine Will get exceptional performance out of the Pantera!

The Pantera is a raw machine… Mid engine with rear bias… You have to know what you’re doing! It’s the driver who keeps the car on the road!
I bought my 1974 911 Carrera When I was 22 years old, (which got me a job at BMW motorsport as test driver ) drove it for 18 years and let me just say I’m a rather spirited driver! Most of the 120.000 km I did in Germany on country roads and the Autobahn, Doing well over 150 miles an hour daily to go to work…

911 is well known as a Tail happy car (being rear engine which makes things even less forgiving) And you have to work for performance with a happy outcome ! The  Pantera can blow the doors off the 911s of the period!  I also got quite a few miles in Lotus Esprit turbo and Maserati Bora. You have to know what you’re doing! And I never, never ever damaged one of those cars! You have to learn how to drive and how to feel the car… It’s not something you sit in it and treated like a front engine, rear wheel drive car, which has a much larger envelope to catch a screw up! Overconfidence will get you in trouble… especially on a mid engine car ! You always have to respect the machine!

regarding working on the Pantera… There are not many things I haven’t touched yet and aside from the screwup some people did over the last 50 years encroaching on the original wiring, it is an easy car to work on.
and if you look on this forum, how many people have torn her whole car apart down to the last nut and bolt and rebuild it in the garage is a testament to the Pantera!

It’s not a Tractor like the Chevelle or a Mustang of the period - it’s a 70’s performance automobile but still built in a manner That normal, technically inclined person can work on!

here is just a few of the things I did:

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...core-keeping-it-cozy

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...uld-the-can-of-worms

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...ng-why-which-and-how

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...tock-disc-conversion

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...ge-it-after-50-years

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...rnal-fuel-filler-mod

and I did quite a few more….

I think your comments were absolutely unjustified and I’m amazed that nobody else was speaking up!

Hi Roland, it disturbed me as well.  I posted that our forum spent a lot of time assisting him with his project that was probably just a for profit endeavor.  Then I thought the controversy was not worth it and removed my post.  Thank you for speaking up.

@stevebuchanan posted:

Hi Roland, it disturbed me as well.  I posted that our forum spent a lot of time assisting him with his project that was probably just a for profit endeavor.  Then I thought the controversy was not worth it and removed my post.  Thank you for speaking up.

It’s always worth speaking up for the truth.

Thank YOU, Steve

Roland and Steve, I agree with you both.  The Pantera is a very easy car to work on, it is simple and well engineered for a 1970's car.  I hope I will get my running for the AZ Pantera's Pantera Prowl at Inde motorsport complex in September.

I am one of the owners who dismantled and reassembled their Pantera from A to Z, everything went through, the bodywork, the engine, the gearbox, the suspensions, the brakes, the electrical harness, absolutely everything.
This is not the first car that I have restored, or should I say rebuilt, and I therefore speak with knowledge of the facts and I confirm that this car is relatively simple and rather well built for a "low distribution" car and easy to maintain and improve with today's technologies and at a very reasonable cost.

@Lardog, @rene… you guys dug deep in the car… AND with stunning results! Well done Gentlemen 🎩🫡

that’s me today ..

ragtop Pantera..lol