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I have a question. I have been struggling with the AC pipe reconnection from the compressor to the cab on 6997. It seems plain there is something funny , but not amusing, with the way its set up .

The standard layout clearly shows the piping runs going up though the center of the car, next to the heater hoses. On 6997 these have been routed through the RHS sill. A very tight fit and makes the congestion above the pedal area quite extreme.

The questions are :

Have these pipes been run in the wrong place?

If so, where is the correct exit and entry for the AC pipes in the center of the car as it is not obvious  ? How is the transit from the compressor normally done ?  I have upgraded to a rotary.

Has anyone hard piped these runs using annealed copper pipe with a insulating sleeve ?

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Images (4)
  • Std AC layout: Center location
  • pipe run 1 engine bay: Shows RH sill entry
  • pipe run 2 into cab: Shows RH sill exit
  • pipe run 3 under dash: Shows pedal crossing of pipes
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Some people have used hard line. Recently owners have been taking advantage of a very easy do it yourself replacement hose sold by vintage air under their trade name and available from Aeroquip in their EZclip system.

It is very noticeably smaller in diameter and very easy to route in tight radiuses.
I noted your current hoses are listed for R12 Freon so I do imagine you will be replacing all of the hoses for the new Sanden and converting to 134a?

this is the hose I used in my recent projects and I was able to add both hoses to the right hand sill area

The current 90° fitting on your evaporator could be replaced with a 180° fitting which combined with the smaller, new hose would likely be a solution to your space encroachment problem

Larry

Thanks Larry .  This would  explain many strange layout issues with these hoses.

I just had a look and will attempt to pull them out and reroute them . They are in there tight!

I take it the run up the center is in the harness loops on the RHS of the tunnel. The pipes then run to the RHS of the gearstick tunnel and then up into the AC connections ?

Percy,

The RH sill A/C hose routing is correct on a later car like yours, heater pipe through the center console. If I recall my hoses exit higher up over the fuse panel. It appears the congestion in your case is compounded by the fact your car has been converted to RHD. It would be good to reach out to a RHD owner and see how the factory routed the hoses on those cars. Maybe ping Johnny Woods with a PM and I bet he will know off the top of his head.

When converting to R134a it's not imperative to change the hoses, it is critical to flush the system and use ester oil (not PAG or mineral oil).

Last edited by joules

Buying a kit for a Pantera, with its far from normal hose routing will likely give you extra hose in some sizes and inadequate  hose in some sizes than you actually require. Same with the fittings.

www.hosewarehouse.com

this is the supplier I used for almost all of my material. They appear to have everything in stock, they ship very promptly, and their pricing is competitive.

The Eaton Aeroquip website is a good resource for learning what fittings are available

Larry

Use the Aeroquip fittings and clamps with supreme confidence.  I have set up the AC systems in many Pantera's using these hoses and fittings.  Not only never a failure, but they are more flexible, narrower diameter lines and provide the ability to clock the fittings perfectly in situ that results in a superior optimization of available space.  The clamps are of high quality and nothing like the worm gear setup associated with coolant lines.  JT seal of approval!

Marlin is absolutely correct, if the hose clamps used with the EZ clip system were  just another version of the hose clamps we use on coolant rubber hoses. But while they may look similar, they are part of an entirely new system.

The clamps used are click and lock and will never loosen from vibration like a standard worm-screw hose clamp.

part of the system is a “cage” which firmly indexes onto the fitting and serves to firmly and permanently capture the clamps in their correct position.

https://youtu.be/a3k1zDGNujI

This system is used by our military on their equipment and you can often find surplus hoses and fittings on eBay  

Larry

Thanks all - I think I have all of the information required to sort out what has been one of more awkward layout issues on this car.  I will be running it through the firewall opening around and up the rhs center sill . The removal of the lines from crossing over above the drivers feet provides around 30mm extra  clearance in front of the upper pedal area  under the dash - It sounds minor but I expect it to be a noticeable  improvement . Never  an issue on LHD layouts but a significant one here.

Finally, one last question,  with 134a swap do you need to replace the TX valve?

@Percy posted:

Finally, one last question,  with 134a swap do you need to replace the TX valve?

Some might say not needed, but I say change it for optimal performance between high and low pressure side and having gone this far what's an extra ~$30. A new dryer is a must too. Be sure to flush out the evaporator core and condenser thoroughly if reusing. The PAG oil used with the R134a is not compatible with the old mineral oil in the R12 system. Ester oil is a good way to go to avoid problems from any residual mineral oil.

0764BA00-8D70-4ACA-A40D-2ED3D9724EA4You need to remember our cars are 50 years old and what was done previous to our ownership in most cases is totally unknown.

The air conditioning hoses on 2511 ran right through the central tunnel, on the right hand side of the shifter mechanism. I, like thousands of owners, never noticed any shifting problems with the hoses in that location.

Larry

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  • 0764BA00-8D70-4ACA-A40D-2ED3D9724EA4

On our '72 L, the evaporator valve under the dash had a 'final filter' in the side arm going to the evaporator core. It was a small (1/4" OD) filter of fine copper screen rolled into a 1/2" long cone. The screen appears hand made. It was completely blocked by tiny pieces of rubber from the hoses, bits of disintegrated dryer pellets, reddish flakes and who knows what else. Hooked it out with a scribe and soaked it in paint thinner for a while, then flushed with solvent & returned it to duty.

Because r-134a is a poorer AC fluid than R-12, higher flow is reportedly needed to get adequate cooling, so shops remove the screen if its there. An evaporator valve suitable for r-134a supposedly uses a different calibration spring inside that valve. If you want, the screen will fit (loosely) in any valve. I once cut apart a 40-yr old  OEM dryer can and it appeared to be 1/3 full of concrete/oil sludge like you'd find in an old neglected engine's crankcase. No trace of 'dryer pellets' as such. This is why the screen was in the OEM system, I guess.

Bosswrench

That information is gold. I will crawl in there and see if I can locate the final  filter while  it is all apart. I will get a new TX valve for  r-134a while its in bits. I only want to do this once.

Larry - the photo you posted is interesting.58696641020__1B31B8BD-B66B-4E23-AB33-B4130F4596C8

If you look at the bare floor pan photo of 6997 you can see the 4 spot welded loops on the RHS of the central tunnel which were sized to contain the hoses in that run location. 2511 does not seem to have these retention tabs in your photo - perhaps a later factory addition to contain the hoses ?

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Images (1)
  • 58696641020__1B31B8BD-B66B-4E23-AB33-B4130F4596C8

FWIW, dryer cans in both brazed-steel and aluminum are readily available in various heights & diameters. I'm currently using an aluminum one for some sort of semi-tractor that's 1-1/2" shorter than stock but 1" larger in OD from NAPA. It fits up front in one of the sculpted depressions in the front trunk near where the stock battery once fit. I use a dropped battery and a front-mounted AC condenser

The only tricky thing I ran into is, the threaded ports in this can are cut for 45 degree flair fittings. I took a 37 degree double-male aluminum AN fitting of the proper thread and changed one side to 45 degrees with a file in a drill press chuck. I scratched '45' on that side for the benefit of the next poor mechanic that works on the car's AC. All the rest of my lines & fittings are 37 degree AN.

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