No, but I did install an aluminum Girling clutch master with no separate reservoir, back in 1982. Still working fine but I did have to elongate the mounting holes in the Girling with a file, as they were a bit too wide. I also replaced the black plastic cap when it split at the threads. I used an aluminum cap by Pegasus-Racing.
Note the aluminum Girling with no translucent reservoir solves your problem of seeing "Black Stuff" in the reservoir. Since it was mentioned several times that it is probably either iron oxide, or carbon black commonly used in rubber parts, did you ever check your debris for magnetism? That would narrow it down to essentially one material.
I did - non-magnetic 3d particles at the bottom of the reservoir with the finer black particles remaining in suspension in the fluid. Garbage bore finish, cheap seal materials and improper clearances- pick one!!!! Time to move away from Pantera vendor parts!
I believe the ATE and ItaliaBrake units I found on the web are direct replacements. That includes the slave cylinder. I was hoping someone could provide the measurements for the MC so that I can verify with ATE.
@Rob Fridenberg posted:Has anyone found/tried a Wilwood clutch master that fits the Pantera?
I installed a Wilwood Clutch Master Kit from SACC Restorations in 2018. I later ran the excess braided line under the front trunk.
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@Rob Fridenberg - I have a brand-new SACC Restoration Wilwood Clutch Master Cylinder if you are interested in trying one. I had it installed, new used and then upgraded to a dual master cylinder configuration and got another Wilwood Clutch Master Cylinder in that set-up. SACC modified the mounting holes so it would use the Pantera mounting holes. PM me if you are interest. Larry
CNC was a firm located in San Diego that supplied Dennis Quella with his aluminum clutch master cylinders.
The OEM center to center clutch master studs are roughly 2 inches, but the standard spacing for the CNC master used by Dennis was 2 1/4”. Dennis arranged for a batch of them to be made with the necessary OEM spacing, but they were only available through him and not directly sold by CNC. You see a lot of these, or close cousins, on many Panteras. Shortly before CNC ceased operations I purchased a 3/4” master from them, made with a S&S sleeved bore.
The modification to the mounting holes by SACC is far from a precise, machining operation. I modified my SS master mounting holes very easily with just a good rattail metal file.
In short, just about any aftermarket three-quarter inch bore aluminum master can be easily modified to fit the OEM studs. A cast iron/steel mounting base would be more problematic, however.
And of course, one advantage to a aftermarket replacement is the ability to purchase from an established firm having a respectable track history of being able to deliver quality components……😉
Larry
Great insight Larry. I bought a CNC slave from Dennis. Has been perfect.
Appreciate the info on Wilwood masters - I assume the stroke specs are adequate for the Pantera set-up? Any performance issues using a long braided line?
I'm waiting on resolution from the vendor that provided my masters, but going with a Wilwood seems like a safe bet for the reasons that Larry mentioned.
No functional performance issues with the braided line. Once bled, the length of the line doesn't really matter. Although, the original braided line did spring a leak a couple of years ago for whatever reason. Shouldn't have, but it did. Those lines are rated at 3,000 psi. Replaced the line, and no problems since.
Just in case, I like to keep a spare of just about all the potential failure items. That way I can continue to drive throughout the cruise-in season here in lovely Ohio... 
As I mentioned, I eventually pulled the hard line under the front trunk and routed the extra length of the braided line through the hole.
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Here is the Wilwood MC as shown above from their website. Bolt spacing is 2.25" which from a rough measurement of mine seems about correct? Price is $83 bucks. How could one go wrong on this.
With the link:
Also from Amazon.
John
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As Larry said above, you will have to elongate the mounting holes a little bit to match OEM bolt pattern.
While previously searching for clutch master info, I ran across where Bosswrench said that “...most aftermarket clutch masters mounting holes are 2.25” center-to-center, and the OEM Pantera clutch master is about 1.85"center-to-center".
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Great info on the Wilwood product! I assume the braided line is not part of the kit??
The braided line and all the adapters were part of the original plug-and-play SACC Restoration's kit, but that kit is no longer on the Web site for whatever reason. So, I put this info together for future reference...
Unless I'm misremembering, the A-1 Performance Adapter in the image is associated with the clutch system hardline.
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Ron - thanks for putting this together as this may be the best direction for master replacements for those that prefer reliability over originality.
The "original" clutch masters I was buying were blowing seals. At least the Wilwood masters can be rebuilt. Cheap enough that I keep a spare Wilwood clutch master and rebuild kit on hand so my Pantera is not parked and waiting for parts during the cruise-in season. Of course, connecting the thing under the dash is about the worst job on a Pantera and where bodies, heads, hands, and fingers do not belong...
I have to pull the seat for access. Can't contort like that anymore.
Ron - any reliability issues with the wilwood? How long have you been using it? Your spare comments make me nervous! Perhaps it is ptsd from the garbage repro parts??!!
To my eye, the Wilwood clutch master looks identical to my '60-vintage Girling, except possibly for the Wilwood having an anodized 3/4" bore. So its a reliable design and rebuild kits are available athough in 40 years I've not needed one.
Husker, to make the clutch master easier to change, some of us bore a 1" OD hole sideways through the toe-box sheet metal, such that the hole lines up with the clutch master connecting pin. A 1" plastic hole plug from a hardware store closes off the access hole for neatness. We also do NOT use the factory connecting pin with those tiny impossible-to-find-if-you-drop-one circlips. Mine was swapped for a piece of drill rod with a push-pin through each end. YMMD-
Bosswrench,
I took that suggestion from you regarding the push-pin quite sometime ago. Can't imagine dealing with that thing now.
@rlee63a4 posted:. Of course, connecting the thing under the dash is about the worst job on a Pantera and where bodies, heads, hands, and fingers do not belong...
True story.
I swapped out a bypassing CNC aftermarket clutch master with the new CNC SS master in the parking lot of a lodge in Monterey, without ever getting underneath the dashboard.
since both masters were dimensionally the same, we left the linkage and push rod in place, and just removed the master.
put things back together, filled the reservoir, and connected the line
We did not bleed the system.
everything worked just fine and never required any follow up
you never know what will work unless you actually try
YMMV
Larry
Does anyone have a photo of the 1" hole in the side of the sheetmetal for the pedal box?
Also, has anyone converted the mounting bolts for the clutch master cylinder into permanent studs that face outward?
Thanks!
No photo right now but its in the upper corner and its 1" so you need not be very precise. I didn't bother to convert to studs in the big aluminum plate. I just clamp a long-nose Vise-Grip pliers to a bolt head and that immobilizes the bolt so the nut comes right off. I'm still flexible enough to reach under the dash with pliers!
@Rob Fridenberg posted:Ron - any reliability issues with the wilwood? How long have you been using it? Your spare comments make me nervous! Perhaps it is ptsd from the garbage repro parts??!!
No worries. I keep just about a spare of everything not readily available local that could possibly fail during our driving season, especially after 2-3 failing "OEM" clutch masters in this case.
@husker posted:I have to pull the seat for access. Can't contort like that anymore.
I pull the seat out every time I need to work under the dash, and these days, it takes all the effort I can muster to get up and out the door. I'm sure it's not an age thing...
@bosswrench posted:...to make the clutch master easier to change, some of us bore a 1" OD hole sideways through the toe-box sheet metal, such that the hole lines up with the clutch master connecting pin. A 1" plastic hole plug from a hardware store closes off the access hole for neatness.
I forgot about boring that 1" hole idea. Have to consider doing that next time. The last time I R&R'd the clutch master, I used a hairpin clip to secure the pin I fed from the other side using needle nose pliers. Having the hole would make that job a lot easier for sure.
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@stevebuchanan posted:Also, has anyone converted the mounting bolts for the clutch master cylinder into permanent studs that face outward?
Thanks!
I fabricated this bracket incorporating two studs. I think there are some minor differences in the pedalbox plates but this design or something similar should work for all cars.
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Thanks Larry.
Are the bolts tack welded to the bracket? Is the bracket attached to pedal box to keep it from falling in?
LOL - the fact that the Pantera community has had to develop "quick change" clutch masters is amusing and a reflection of a bad part that most vendors say never leak or fail (or blame it on brake fluid).
On any other car - a clutch master failure is typically a forum discussion after 100k miles of usage - not 100 miles!
Hopefully my clutch master soap opera will be over soon and I can return to thinking about other things.
@stevebuchanan posted:Thanks Larry.
Are the bolts tack welded to the bracket? Is the bracket attached to pedal box to keep it from falling in?
Yes, they were eventually tack welded to the bracket. Photo was an in-progress photograph. Nothing holds the bracket in place, but the bolts are long enough you can use a needle nose vice grip to hold a bolt in place during installation process.
Larry
@Rob Fridenberg posted:LOL - the fact that the Pantera community has had to develop "quick change" clutch masters is amusing and a reflection of a bad part that most vendors say never leak or fail (or blame it on brake fluid).
On any other car - a clutch master failure is typically a forum discussion after 100k miles of usage - not 100 miles!
Hopefully my clutch master soap opera will be over soon and I can return to thinking about other things.
We usually just go from one interesting soap opera to another to keep these beasts alive. I actually enjoy the challenge having always been a car guy.
It's a sick life, but someone has to live it...
Here is another take on Larry's bolt head retainer idea (I welded on a curved piece of steel rod) with the application of a plain pin and clip to retire the circ-clip style pin (the proper sized pin from my junk box just happened to have a hex shaped head).
The next problem you may encounter is the new dust boot on your master is a too tight fit in the hole. Here's a pic of some junk parts and how I reduced the diameter on a bench grinder very neatly, no tears, no cuts.
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For the folks that have installed the Wilwood and hogged out one of the mounting holes on the master - is there a reason for not slotting one of the bolt holes on the pedal box? I'd rather do that than modify the Wilwood part.
Thanks
First off, you want to enlarge both holes by 1/8” to keep things centered.
Second, I think it is far better to modify an aftermarket part to allow fitment, instead of modifying the permanent OEM pedal box plate.
My 2¢
Larry
@lf-tp2511 posted:Second, I think it is far better to modify an aftermarket part to allow fitment, instead of modifying the permanent OEM pedal box plate.
My 2¢
Larry
Agree. Please add my 2¢...
Thanks Larry/Ron - also, good point about enlarging each hole for centering. My thoughts on not modifying the master:
-If there was ever a warranty issue (geez I hope not, but....) there may be some issues returning a 'modified' part with cobbled holes?? Maybe not....
-Modifying the OEM box plate - the small amount of enlarging will be covered by the master, and the holes would still accomodate an original style master if some owner in the future finds a reputable OE type master to use if they are concerned with originality. I would imagine that gasoline will not be available when a quality OE master is finally produced!
Thanks (still waiting on resolution with the vendor....)
The only possible resolution from the vendor that would be to your advantage would be a refund.
I often share with new owners that if you talk to enough people, you will find major complaints about every vendor. Nobody, even our vendors, can bat 1000 all of the time.
The solution I suggest is to do business with all of them and you will have your own good guy and bad guy list after a few years.
in your case, you have a vendor that you might want to add to your bad guy list. 😉
I would just proceed and buy the Wilwood, and if you can get a refund from the vendor, consider yourself very lucky.
Larry
Update - I called Scott at SACC (thanks for the tip Ron) and he had one Wilwood master/line kit left on the shelf so I bought it. I was going to get the master from Summit Racing, but I didn't want to spend 3 weeks sourcing the line and various adapters that are needed. Scott's price was very reasonable for the added parts. I did have to use my OE clevis as the supplied short clevis did not work with my early '72 (non-effort reduction).
I did end up modifying the pedal box AL plate ilo of grinding on the master. The minor hole changes are not visible and you could still use an OE style master if a future owner wants the OE look. Given all of the changes that are made to Panteras, enlarged holes should not be upsetting to future owners.
I have around 100 miles on the Wilwood and the fluid looks like it just came out of the bottle - as it should. Plus, one less failure mode as the reservoir is integral.
My vendor graciously agreed to provide a refund. They share the same frustrations that we have!
I appreciate the advice/help that everyone provided.
Next project - installing a Fluidyne rad/Flex-a-Lite shroud combo!
Glad to hear it worked out.