Thanks John. Hope you are well! Lee
Here is an interesting find: Alfa part no. Steve, does this look like the multiple units you have tried?
Yes it is similar. Mine had a square reservoir but the body is the same. It is the one at the beginning of this posting that made the fluid black. The one I got was inexpensive, maybe $50.
If you search online, and I just did a quick search on the Alfa forum, there are similar debates. ATE makes a unit that would work for the Pantera. I don't need one but am wondering if somebody is making a cheap knockoff like most things as opposed to getting a quality unit. Steve, How much was your unit?
Mine was cheap. Maybe $50. The body of mine looks identical to the one in your link with the round reservoir for 299 euro.
Does it say ATE on it. The Alfa guys are using a supposedly quality unit made by ATE
I won’t be back at the house for a week. Can check then.
@stevebuchanan posted:My new clutch master failed. The fluid seemed to be turning black so I flushed it a couple of times. Then I took it on a fairly big outing to Full Throttle Panteras open house. The fluid was perfectly clear when I started the trip. About halfway through the trip during some spirited driving the clutch master begin to fail. When I held the clutch down, it would gradually release itself. I was able to complete the trip and make it back home but maneuvering in parking lots was very difficult.
After arriving at Full Throttle, I inspected the fluid and it was very black. The next week I removed the failed master and showed it to Wilkinson and explain what happened. He asked which brake fluid I used and I said it was DOT3. He said it has to be DOT4 and set me up with a new one. I have that in the car now. So far so good, but time will tell.
I just installed a new clutch master cylinder and within a few days, the fluid began to turn dark and there is black grit in the fluid. I suspect that this could be caused by the brake fluid attacking the rubber seals. I am holding my breath and waiting for this master cylinder to fail. I have also limited my trips with the Pantera because I don't need a clutch master cylinder failure several hundred miles from home. I found a company in New York that can rebuild the original master cylinder and use modern seals. I am going to be shipping off my old master cylinder to them.
JFFR,
Any chance you can pop your old unit apart, lay it out and take some pictures???
I don't have any old ones to look at....! See what the story is........
I can't imagine that these would need much more attention than perhaps a new seal/o-ring of brake fluid compatibility, and a light polish to the bore........
Cheers!
Steve
Here are some pics of my old ATE master that I replaced with the new garbage.
Perhaps rebuilding this is an option - any info on rebuild kits??
Attachments
Images (3)
Well, that certainly looks a little more involved than a single o-ring.....but like everything I have encountered with the Goose......"your mileage may vary!" I found 3-4 different slave seals used over time in the same cylinder.
OK! So further, what are the markings on the umbrella seal and in the other rubber cup seal??? If known, these could be potentially sourced......
What needs to be known, is stuff like bore diameter, shaft diameter (ID of seal)....
Steve (the other one....)
I would buy a new ATE unit from one of the Alfa vendors. We need to know what ATE part number is needed as the Alfa's used various units. I did read where an ATE rebuild kit is available as well. Several reputable Alfa vendors stock the ATE as well as a different manufacturer here in the US.
@mangusta posted:I can't imagine that these would need much more attention than perhaps a new seal/o-ring of brake fluid compatibility, and a light polish to the bore........
Cheers!
Steve
Or, and here is a radical idea for the Pantera community, our vendors could stop reproducing parts with 85% correctness, leaving 15% substandard and leading to discussions such as this.
For over 20 years, I have heard the mantra of we must support and respect our vendors.
Sadly, with a continuing series of substandard reproduction parts, I think what really should be happening is our vendors should start respecting us by providing reproduction parts that are accurate and functional, instead of “close, but no prize” failures.
Larry
I have read this thread all the way through as I picked up a clutch slave cylinder and master cylinder a few days ago from PIM that is scheduled to be installed this week. After reading how most of the new ones leak almost from the "getgo," I'm a bit nervous. I had a new clutch put in two weeks ago, and my mechanic suggested that I replace the slave and master cylinder as well. I will now monitor them both regularly to avoid any issues. By the way, I replaced my clutch with a unit from Southland Clutch in San Diego. I was in San Diego two weekends ago and had been recommended to give them a call. Wonderful, knowledgeable people to deal with and extremely reasonably priced. So far, so good.
I live in SD and am familiar with Southland. Curious can you provide details of what clutch work they did for you. OBTW their website says they do clutch master cylinders as well? Did you ask them? thanks for the feedback on them.
tberg,
Now why would someone want to replace a perfectly good master and slave cylinder just because you replace the clutch disc and pressure plate??????
That's the goofiest things I've heard in a few days..... 
What you COULD do, it take them apart and clean the cylinders out of any crud and crap...and actually INSPECT them for wear! No wear, no replace!
ALWAYS use brake assembly snot/lube when putting these together for the first time or for any time for that matter if you take them apart.
I wouldn't risk replacing working parts with parts prone to failure according to this post!!!!
Gotta remember when hotrodding......induce only one failure point at at time!!! It keeps the anxiety level lower......when shite does hit the fan!!!!!
Steve (Used to drive a '58 that my dad had when I was a sr in HS! 283-3spd, total farmer car.... Car drove like a truck! Cuz that is where Chevy borrowed the front suspension from! His buddy's dad had a dealership and always gave him crap about that point!)
There's Bush Power Brakes in San Diego (National City).
John
panterapatt,
Call Southland Clutch in National City and ask for Kim. He is quite familiar with Pantera clutches and can give you all of the information. I did ask him about the clutch master cylinder and the slave, and he told me they do not carry them. When I picked up the clutch on a Friday afternoon, he asked me about which size bearing pack my clutch had to which I had no answer since I didn't know. So I asked him to just give me both, and to charge me the little bit extra for it. The clutch was $285.00. With the bearing packs and tax, my bill was $340. and some change. The owner of the company came out to talk to me and my wife, very friendly and quite knowledgeable. It was an altogether, very pleasant transaction and the clutch is in and functioning. Kim will tell you about how much torque and horsepower their clutch will handle. (I believe it was around 650 ft. lbs for torque and even more horsepower. My car is around 500/500 if I recall. Kim races cars as well and has a 1000+ horsepower car with one of their clutches, and he'll be able to give you all of the specifications. I just picked it up two weeks ago, so if you remind him that Ted picked up a clutch a couple of weeks ago for a Pantera, I'm sure he will know exactly what I got.
Thanks
I am thrilled to report that the new/improved bottle to fitting joint leaks!! So - not only is the fluid turning dark from the o-rings dissolving, the bottle still leaks. Really? Who is making this garbage???
Getting ready to request a 4th replacement. What is that saying about the definition of insanity...... unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any alternatives.