body repair questions

The side mounts on the chassis also have buts welded in. I use them for a platform I can stand on in the back and for a stainless steel display. I am considering using them as an extra mounting point for a custom trunk tub:

There is a lot more but my favorite has to be the removable rear window. It can be taken out in 5 minutes with an Allen wrench:

quote:

Originally posted by Husker:
Kirk,
What material did you use?

The light pods are composite and the trunk material is off the shelf available at most trim shops. It was made specifically for lining your trunk. I use to make liner kits back in the early 80s using this material and discovers you can stretch and pull it for a seamless covering. This stuff it quite tough and is great looking once installed---IMHO

Here is a shot of a rear with the seamless material installed. The bottom crack seen in the picture is a lid that covers a cavity below where you can keep cleaning and polishing goodies away from public view.

Is that symmetrical tube from an early (or late) model or one you cleaned up?

This design was scratch built. I wanted to have a symmetrical tub with a much larger condenser air cavity to improve the AC and finally to be able to hide the cleaning supplies from public view.

Here is how it started. The master model "plug" was made from wood, metal, foam, acrylic sheet, filler, and polyester primer.

Early side view of the back. You can see the start of the AC condenser cavity.

Getting close to a finished shape now. There was allot of inside and outside radius work on every edge. It took many special hand made forms to do the finish detail work.

Some of the tools for the details that were needed. The round ended shaft tools were used for the inside radius work. Others for shapes, fill work and drafting needed to make the mold pull from the master.

Master plug in primer ready to start the mold now. You can clearly see the dropped floor where the lid sits into the bottom. Plenty of room for all kinds of goodies hiding until they are needed.

Building the mold.

Ready to lift it from the engine compartment.

A bottom view of the freshly pulled mold.

A raw part right out of the mold.

Here's a tub modified with a clear bottom. The hidden cavity was removed but the lid still protects the acrylic if you want to put some luggage or folding chairs in the back to travel.

Here's one modified with an acrylic front for engine view. The bottom lid/cover is out in this shot.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by comp2:
When doing the frame rail repairs I made them from 14g. I added extra supports with grooves and holes to drain moisture. I would be jacking on the frame rails like those before me but if some one does latter, I doubt they will hurt the rails.

Nice work. I do a similar repair using 12 gauge on the full bottom following the curve. Usually only needs the area repaired in your picture. I have the entire bottom patterned so we can cut the laser-ed patch off and only do the straight area. This is a good solution.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by comp2:
My headlight buckets had individual bolts. It was a PTA. I made a nut plate which made bolting on and adjusting the buckets a lot easier:

Really nice work. Love the door holing fixtures. I use simple slip sleeve bolt locks like your door adjuster has to find the vertical location on all of my caster fixtures also.

Question---How did you mount the headlight bar back into the car? The ends are short, right? Did you add length to the bar after the install or is this a custom opening mechanism?

I mount the lid tabs to a 1/2 sleeve that attaches to the lift bar. That way you can adjust the buckets into the openings by holding the split sleeve with hose clamps. Here is a shot of the split bar mount modified to be installed on the main drive bar later. You can replace the bar bushing and use collar locks to hold the side to side position. The bar slides into the mounts in one piece but you have to have the drive gear removed. And if both fenders are still on, you will need to cut a hole in one fender to put the bar back into the car. Sounds horrible but it's simple to butt weld the hole shut and hammer the seams---there is room.

Here is the bucket mount welded to the lift bar. You can see the collar locks in the right side in the pic that hold the bar from sliding back and forth.

quote:

Originally posted by Kirk Evans:

The headlight bar? I actually eliminated it. I set up linear actuators because I reconfigured the front. All air goes out the hood now. All air under the car is blocked off:

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/hood/hood.htm

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/rhl/rhl.htm




I also found the headlight bucket fit quite sloppy so I welded a wire around to tighten it up:

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/hl/hl.htm

I do have a question. I thought about making a stainless steel wire mesh trunk tub. It would be see through. I know it would not stop the heat but would be kind of cool. I was thinking if things in the trunk are heat sensitive I could use some sort of thermal blanket. I was curious what you might think?

Gary

Gary,

Your obviously a skilled craftsman, fabricator and this is your baby so go for it. My only suggestion would be to build inside a tub that fits your car and the various items that you will need to form around. Or build a protective shield shaped in various flats out of foam core to protect your engine bay. Then use it to build the wire tub in flat shapes so you can form the mesh and not have to shape it. Straight forms are easy---complex shaping mesh is difficulty to do and will stretch and shrink the wire holes.

If I were building something like this, I would build an outer shape with hard corners on all of the edges that would be formed in maybe 1.5 x 14 gauge angle bent to fit---an entire structure shape in SS custom bent angles. Then cut the wire mesh to fit the flat angles on you bent framing and it's various shapes built to fit your car. Thinking of a framed cage approach. By the way, the picture is not my work.

It's something I have been thinking about. Unfortunately I have a long list of other things in front of it.

How about some topic suggestions?

Drain holes, door alignment, trim blacking, deck cracks and top edge lifting, body week spots, door hinge rebuilding, rocker cavity dust catch pockets, composite part fitting, roof rust, side mirror window mounting, hood front rust repair?

Kirk,

Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge!

The metal work on 5715 has finally gained momentum. There are a couple of topics that I can use some help with.

First, where do suggest body reinforcement be added. An aluminum 9.2” deck height 400 cubic inch Clevor engine with probably about 450HP will be installed. Not a huge powerhouse like some others have installed but strong enough to consider body flex. The goal for 5715 is for it to be a nice street car so hidden reinforcements and/or gussets are OK.

The second topic is wheel positioning to the chassis. Specifically front to back. 5715 is rust free and we don’t believe it has ever taken a big hit. We found a small crunch at the front left corner ahead of the head light that was banged out and Bondoed. There was a repair under the drivers seat that will be redone. Looks like the car ran over something at some point. The car appears to be square. The issue that concerns me is the track dimension we measured. With all new bushing in all the suspension arms and a rough alignment we measure almost 1” longer than the published stock dimension. Everything seems to be symmetrical. Do you have some hard points we could check? Are these cars usually dimensionally consistent? BTW, all the control arms appear to be straight.

5715 has been media blasted so everything is visible.

Thanks,
Mike

JFB posted a chassis diagram which show a couple of dimensions that might help. It’s no longer attached to this thread. Can it be posted again?

Thanks

Mike,

The hidden reinforcement that would make a difference would require opening up the car and based on your rust free description, I doubt if that's a good approach in this case. How deep do you want to go is the question.

As far as the dimension, are you measuring from the hub centers? If yes, do you have all of the lower rear control mount shims out, are the upper rear arms adjustable or extended, and are the front upper control arms caster modified? I do not measure the wheel base from the centers. Might I suggest measuring the platform from the suspension mount points side to side and see if they match. Use the control are tabs/holes front to rear. If they match, do a cross measure left rear to right front and see if the numbers are the same. If yes, don't worry, the car is fine and will align correctly. DO NOT USE THE FACTORY ALIGNMENT SPECS! They will take out the inside tread on the rear tires.

The S car is suppose to have the same center to center wheel dimension but is indeed longer. I know this because we had to modify the platform fixture to bolt on the body.

Here is a shot of a simple fix that helps keep the taillight corners from cracking. It's a bar welded in to hold the rear valance from flexing when you're driving the car. Picture is a bit muffed---it's the muffler opening area on the rear valance.

quote:

Originally posted by Racecar Mike:
JFB posted a chassis diagram which show a couple of dimensions that might help. It’s no longer attached to this thread. Can it be posted again?

Thanks

What happened to the post? Sounds like something that could help.

I didn't want to clutter up your postings so I removed it (not the best quality). I thought Mike and I could exchange privately.

Your advice though is beyond what I would have even thought about related alignment settings.

Thus I'll just shut up, listen and try to learn!

quote:

Originally posted by Kirk Evans:

The 2 primary reasons the window drags are from the center guide bar no having the original washers re-installed at the top and it's in a bind or the vent window felt channel gets replaced and the new material is not the correct size and/or is was not notched at the top to allow the clearance for the upper mounting bar which is screwed into the top of the door and is welded in the window guide channel. The are numerous other combinations of reasons---those are the primary ones and the window drag will weaken the motor over time---you third reason.

You should pull the window mounts and test slide the window first. If it moves up and down by hand without dragging, the rest is adjustment details. I can go through the process once your sure the glass slides OK.

On possible reason is most of the center bars do not have the same ark as the window and that is critical because it will glide smooth in some areas and bind in others. I bench fit every window now to make sure the guide bar is arked correctly.

Here is a shot of a window bolted to the drive in a rolled down position. I am holding the guide bar down---it was adjusted and greased at this point and is sliding smooth.

Kirk,

Thank you very much for the info.
I will pull the door panel off and check all the points you mentioned. Over the years I have replaced the glass, installed taurus motors and replaced the outer cat whiskers. Somewhere along the way I messed up the adjustments.

The car is in hibernation mode right now in a friends garage. As soon as spring shows up and I get it home I will tear it apart and check everything you mentioned and let you know.

Thanks again,

Doug M

quote:

Originally posted by JFB #05177:
I didn't want to clutter up your postings so I removed it (not the best quality). I thought Mike and I could exchange privately.

Your advice though is beyond what I would have even thought about related alignment settings.

Thus I'll just shut up, listen and try to learn!

No information is clutter IMHO. There is a wealth of extremely talented guys on this forum and the day I stop learning form our group is the day worm feast starts on my decaying butt.

Kirk,

Thank you very much for the info.
I will pull the door panel off and check all the points you mentioned. Over the years I have replaced the glass, installed taurus motors and replaced the outer cat whiskers. Somewhere along the way I messed up the adjustments.

The car is in hibernation mode right now in a friends garage. As soon as spring shows up and I get it home I will tear it apart and check everything you mentioned and let you know.

Thanks again,

Doug M[/QUOTE]

Sounds like your situation is minor. When you get into it this spring, feel free to call. My cell is 419-344-8148

Kirk,
Thanks for the info. Also, thanks JFB for the chassis drawing.
We did measure the track hub center to hub center at both sides. They were about the same. The rear lower control arm adjustment shims are removed. The rear upper arms are stock. The front upper control arms are custom adjustable units. The front lower control arms have been lengthened to minimize excessive scrub radius. The longer arms have been compared to straight stock arms. After aligning the car we then realized the wheel base dimension was longer than stock. I’m comfortable redesigning and making the suspension work but I would rather not reinvent the wheel and keep things as close to stock. We are trying to confirm that the chassis wasn’t modified. We are currently setting the steel flares so we want to confirm the wheels are in there correct location. The drawing JFB posted has a dimension in red of the distance between the front mounting hole for the lower rear control arm to the lower front control arm rear mounting tab. That’s what we need to determine the chassis has not been modified.

Thanks,
Mike

This was a cruddy old deck latch assembly that went thought restoration. It is an original unit and still has the factory pin in it which we salvage.

Another view. You can save all most anything with some TLC and a good plaiting shop.

These were restored also. The allen bolts are stainless with the outer surface flattened by sanding the face in a spinning drill so they fit flush into the catch assembly. The bolts can be philips stainless and plated yellow or clear cad.

quote:

Originally posted by Kirk Evans:
OK so you want to use the early original metal chrome front eyebrow bumpers, modify them to have an integrated LED in the edge and then re-chrome them, correct? Did you fill the valance divot where the original light use to set? There are lights that could be installed on the underside of your bumpers that would not require any chrome work---not a fitted cool custom job but you would not have to cut the bumpers.

Ever consider installing a set of valance light pods and using the original style clear lens lights with the Jon Hass LED conversion? The converted lights can be used as daytime running lights, nighttime parking lights and blinkers that change to yellow when blinking.

I make the pods but you have to open a clearance hole in the valance. Was working on a modified version that would not require cutting the clearance hole---not finished yet.

Found this for the rear bumpers.

Kirk - I would like to see what you have on refurbishing door hinges. Thanks

Along with Rodney's Question....

I have an issue with my driver's door "spring loaded stop" - it won't stay in the detent in the fully OPEN postion.

Is there something I can check there? I'd like to understand how this mechanism works and if it can be replaced / repaired.

Thanks -

I will shoot some better pictures of a complete rebuild soon. Here are the parts made to replace the old stop pins. The replacement pins are all made using standard bolts, a cut off wheel, small grinder a drill press to shape the heads so they look original. For the hinge pins I use drill rod and a reamer to re-cut the hinge holes. There a some tricks to the job that need pictures with a description so please hang in there, I'll try to get the hinge rebuild documented sometime in the next 30 days.

Thanks Kirk - Look forward to more ideas.

Chuck