custom ZF mounts

What grade material & matching process is being used?

Why countersink the mounting holes when a full thickness measurement would be stronger?...Mark

Billet 6061T-6 Aluminum
3 Axis CNC Machining Center

As for the counter sinks I copied the stock "Cast" unit.

I can make them without if you would prefer.

Evan

Looks Like I will be making Motor mounts too. 351C That will lower and or move the motor forward or aft. in .5in increments Price on the motor mounts
will be $750 per pair

Hello Evan; Appreciation your clarification!

As I readily admit I DIDN'T know the stock units were "cast" & countersunk making your custom pieces infinitely stronger, in addition your pricing is in my opinion...extremely competitive

On aside note...Have you considering custom mounts to LOWER the engine & transmission?

I would DEFINITELY be interested in that!!!...Mark

I have a frame stiffener under My ZF so I'm limited as to how much I could lower mine....But if some wanted a set to lower the ZF I could certainly design that in.
Evan

I've been asked about a 2.5 in offset. It would look something like this.

Everyone will need to do their own research about fitment. I think this much offset will interfere with the speedo cable.

Would there be any significant change in f/r weight distribution if the engine/transaxle assembly was moved to the rear about an inch or so?

It would make a difference. Noticable? we'll see.

I thought I would see requests to move forward and not to the rear.

I'm moving mine reward 1 in to better accommodate the Coyote engine I'm building. That and I have some interest in someday supercharging the engine. Need the clearance to the firewall.

quote:

Originally posted by agustaboy:
It would make a difference. Noticable? we'll see.

I thought I would see requests to move forward and not to the rear.

I'm moving mine reward 1 in to better accommodate the Coyote engine I'm building. That and I have some interest in someday supercharging the engine. Need the clearance to the firewall.

Hello Evan; I too are rather surprised at requests to move in essence "Weight" further back, being that the Pantera is already "Front-End LIGHT!!!".

I will also promise to utilize the precise machining terminology in the future to appease & prevent incurring the wrath of Marlin Jack...Mark

LOL

Yes I'm thinking of relocating the gas tank to the front like Chris/Scott did.

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...62/m/7581071156/p/10

And or mounting some lead up front.

Anyway some out there might be interested in a set of stock position billet mounts.

Polish them or anodize them some crazy color.

Moving the Engine/Trans forward 1in would look something like this.

And 2in forward starts to look like R2-D2

[QUOTE]Originally posted by agustaboy:
LOL

Yes I'm thinking of relocating the gas tank to the front like Scott did.
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...62/m/7581071156/p/10



And or mounting some lead up front.

Jeez, we went for years without people chirping back and forth. Were turning into a tuner club with a bunch of punks.
Signing off…...

quote:

Originally posted by Marlin Jack:
...Folks, The Machinists down out Our shop have made a very lucrative Living off, Just Fixing and Repairing the 'Screw-Ups' performed by engineers who thought they knew better then a Specialized Trained Machinist, and took on repairs themselves. Or They just Did Not Listen or Follow Instructions.
The following is just a very small example of what I am speaking of.

quote:

Originally posted by 1Rocketship:

I will also promise to utilize the precise machining terminology in the future to appease & prevent incurring the wrath of Marlin Jack...Mark

A Smart Ass! "No Man is as Blind, as the Man who WON'T See!"

There is also a time tested adage...

As per the example you posted...

"*Last: Lucky for Your customers, Your Price! I would have charged $300.00 EACH. My Boss just finished CNC Machining a Pair of 'Engine Support Struts' for a Vintage Aircraft. They NO LONGER EXIST! About 14" Long, a Lot More Complicated and Multiple Operations, Same Material 6061 AL. He Greatly Improved upon the Original Design. The Cost to the Customer?
$10,000. EACH!"

That being..." A Fool & his money are SOON PARTED!"

Lets work out the cost of Marlin Jack's $10,000 EACH parts!

A customer brings in a pair of Engine Support Struts.

The parts are scanned for duplication, those measurements are placed into a CNC computer program, the part/s are then machined.

At a $200.00 an hour shop rate it would TAKE 100 HOURS to produce two 14 INCH LONG parts!!!

Marlin Jack...You just BLEW UP my B.S. METER!!! & at your Boss's rates it would cost 1.375 MILLION to FIX!!! ...Mark

ANYWAY.

This is going to be a ONE TIME production run. So let me know your interest level.
I will be starting production on July 1st.

******Disclaimer*****

It is up to you to check for clearance issues.
There will be no refunds.
You will have to change your motor mounts too.


I know as for me that I can move the engine/trans rearward 1 in. without issue.
I am using a cable actuated shifter from Scott(ZR1 Pantera) at SACC so I will have no issues but you might if you are going to use the stock shifting rods.
http://www.saccrestorations.net/

When you relocate the engine in a compactly designed car like the Pantera, there are unanticipated effects. In 1995, I shifted our engine/ZF back 3/4" by using already-drilled second motormount bolt-holes in '72-up Panteras. Why so little? Because more than that causes the lower frame crossmember to hit the forward edge of the Aviad oil pan notch. As the Aviaid pan is a race-proven assembly, I chose not to alter it. My custom removeable crossmember (circa 1990) is also a proven piece. This much powertrain movement is accommodated in back by bending the rearmost steel frame tabs into a shallow 'S'. Bending the tabs lowers the rear of the transaxle, so I used 3/4" longer tie-bolts and a custom aluminum spacer, with a new hole in the front (unbent) tab. The slight tilt in the engine did not affect the carb float heights significantly for 20,000 miles.

A decade later, I sectioned & TIG-welded the stock upper motormounts, taking 1" out of them to lower the engine height and level out the carb for air cleaner clearance. !" turned out to be the max I could lower it, as the bottom of the Sankyo AC compressor then hit the crossover water pipe. By notching the lower frame's pinch-weld seam and slightly oval-izing the stainless pipe, I managed to lower the pipe enough that the two parts do not rub. More than that would have required running the pipe THROUGH the lower subframe while pulling the engine for frame welding/bracing. 1" engine lowering also brings the edge of the harmonic damper VERY close to the rubber hose that supplies coolant to the surge tank. By adding a 90 degree copper bend with careful routing of straight sections of hose, I minimized the interference but I know things move around more than you'd think when hot. So I added a small metal rub-strip to the hose where the balancer gets closest. So far (5000 miles), there's no witness-mark on it.

FWIW, I did all this NOT to fractionally change the weight & balance of the car, but to achieve a flat firewall and eliminate the cockpit bulge around the 351-C water pump & alternator. It also allowed me to run a big-cap distributor without the fragile cap hitting the firewall. The alt still needed repositioning and custom aluminum crank/waterpump pulleys finished the job. Our firewall is now flat but my air cleaner still hits the early screen cover, all due to the aluminum SVO heads & mandatory high-rise intake. Everything affects everything else!

All this has been awhile ago so I forgot another important detail. Lowering the engine causes the left motormount to pinch the shift-shaft which passes through it via a stock notch, immobilizing the car. With the small amount of down-and-back movement I did, I managed to lower the shift-shaft support under the left header just enough for clearance, and the shifter stick then aligned as-stock in the cockpit. The shifter rod is now quite close to the edge of the block, bellhousing and inner fender edge but everything clears. Good luck with more movement than this.

Hi,

I'm interested in a set of mounts that lower the engine by 1" and move it forward a little. Do you know how far forward it can be moved without radical modifications? Maybe 1/2"?

Can you let me know if the cost is the same?

Thanks

Coolvet

quote:

Originally posted by agustaboy:
ANYWAY.

This is going to be a ONE TIME production run. So let me know your interest level.
I will be starting production on July 1st.

******Disclaimer*****

It is up to you to check for clearance issues.
There will be no refunds.
You will have to change your motor mounts too.


I know as for me that I can move the engine/trans rearward 1 in. without issue.
I am using a cable actuated shifter from Scott at SACC so I will have no issues but you might if you are going to use the stock shifting rods.

1/2 forward and 1in dropped start to get tricky.
The Trans mount holes and frame mount hole start to intersect.

Here's what what stock position but 1in dropped looks like

I'm VERY interested in maintaining the stock forward/rearward positioning of the engine, but would like to lower the engine.

Is a 2 inch lowering possible, I understand the linkage rod would have to be altered, any other concerns?!...THANKS!!!...Mark

Hey Mark
0 for/rear but 2in drop.
Whether or not you have clearance for this is unknown to me. You will need to be the one to determine that.

Evan

Hello Evan; Will DEFINITELY do my research & get back to you !!!

Are you also willing to machine a set of engine mounts with the same corresponding drop?!

If so, any idea on pricing?

PLEASE don't short change your time & efforts in regards to pricing, as I appreciate your willingness to provide a well engineered quality product ...Mark

Finally have this on the front Burner.
Sorry for the Delay. I've been ill since June.

Feeling much better and all caught up at work.

Please contact me if interested.

Photo of the Set that I'm making fro myself.

6061 T6 Aluminum.

Pic 2

Progressing nicely now.

Besides just admiring the product, I enjoying observing the logistics in 'how' a part is machined.

I was thinking you might make a single bore, before parting. I'll assume doing the two individual borings would be more accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by JFB #05177:
Besides just admiring the product, I enjoying observing the logistics in 'how' a part is machined.

I was thinking you might make a single bore, before parting. I'll assume doing the two individual borings would be more accurate.

$230,000 High precision 3 axis machining center the bore will be plenty accurate.

Wow, that really look awesome.

I Wonder if 1.5 in forward and a 0.5 inch Down would be possible?

When I moved the powertrain back 3/4" & lowered 1" by sectioning & redrilling the front lower motormounts, that much dropped the oil pan VERY close to my removeable crossmember under the engine, and put the AC & its bracket on top of the water pipe that goes to the surge tank. The mini-starter touches the frame & needed clearancing. A stock starter would need far more trimming. The gearshift rod now barely clears the left motormount pass-thru & the bellhousing/block flange in back. Pushing the engine fwd will move the harmonic balancer & crank pulley into the frame crossmember at the bottom of the access door. Pushing it backwards clears that crossmember, at least! The exhaust pipes & header flanges may need trimming to miss the coil-overs, or a new exhaust system. The bay brace now comes quite close to the bellhousing and clutch slave cylinder/bracket.

All these things are correctible but this exercise is a whole collection of little cuts, adjustments and tweeks all around the engine. ZF repositioning is the easy part- I just s-bent the frame tabs & redrilled.

Would be factually interesting to have two exactly identical panteras, 1 with the stock drivetrain location & the other with a 1 inch lowered drivetrain & see the amount of difference in G forces throughout a race course.

There has to be a trade off point in regards to labour,time, money spent & results.

I wonder how much a dry sumped 351C engine with no regards to the amount of fabrication needed could be lowered?!

Mine are done!

I'm anticipating that this will be a One time production run. Soooo If you are interested now is the time to let me know SOON!.

Evan

quote:

Originally posted by 1Rocketship:
I'm VERY interested in maintaining the stock forward/rearward positioning of the engine, but would like to lower the engine.

Is a 2 inch lowering possible, I understand the linkage rod would have to be altered, any other concerns?!...THANKS!!!...Mark

I have lowered my engine by 1" and notice that the driveshafts are now quite close to the chassis rails. A 2" drop would cause interference there I believe.

Looks Like I will be making Motor mounts too. 351C That will lower and or move the motor forward or aft. in .5in increments Price on the motor mounts
will be $750 per pair

MINE ARE 1.5in REARWARD.

HERE IS A PIC FOR REFERENCE.

I MIGHT NEED TO SCALLOP THIS TO CLEAR THE SPEEDO CABLE.

Here is a set that will move everything 1in forward and will drop everything 1in.

And now ready for the bore.

I've been asked how the third counter bore would be done on the 1in and 1.5in forward mounts.

Burning the C.B. in with an EDM Machine.

Burns the metal away electrically.
Burned in at an angle so the strength is not compromised. The nut can be tightened with a short socket with a wobbly extension.

Just received ZF mounts and wanted to thank Agustaboy and let other Pantera owners know that I had one of the most pleasurable purchase experiences. From beginning to end
I always felt like I was the only project he had working, and I was constantly keep informed on progress from purchase of material to shipment with number. Excellent supplier.