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the shop bought new, shifter to ZF, but didn't adjust to go easy, just FORCED shifts.   Telling me that was the way it should be.!   I haven't checked to see if it could be an easy correction.   I've been driving without gate and side to side free play is a lot.

as for collector nuts, I went with old school long brass nuts.

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i think the shop bought every thing in the Wilkinson catologe.!

they initially used the rubber insert trunion, But I insisted they use a sperical bearing.

It should have been perfect, but I think the forceful shifting during testing loosen things up.   the free play requires shifter sliding along side of the upholtered frame,   ie where the gate was machined to.   with 2/3 is pretty close to center, (some times requires a little side to side wiggle)

correcting is on my wish list for latter.  sort of imposible to watch linkage to find loose section by your self.

Last edited by jfb05177

Joe,  I would gladly drop down there to help with that, but you're aware of my newest commitments.  My schedule might be free enough if you head north this weekend, as I'll probably be stuck in Rocky Mount.  We could also address it at Fleet Fest assuming one of the trailer folks brings a floor jack.  Or possibly even at my house earlier that departure day, just I hate to be adjusting it under time pressure and possibly making it worse before better (it could happen).  I personally have had good experience with the (basically Hall I think) spherical trunion, though I have seen arguments for stock in the long run, but I don't put that much mileage on mine.  I'm basically now probably also wearing out some fabric going into R, but I am comfortably back to keeping my shift gate in.  Obviously, the trunion nut must be tight. - Lee

no adjustment attempted.   I did notice one connection.   the "nipple" on the ZF shifter input shaft.   with zf in 4th, the "nipple" could be wiggled to move the sifter about the amount machined.    during drive, if shifter pushed max right (where milled away) it would go into 4th, BUT if pushed to where 4 th gate should be, it could go into 2nd (MONEY SHIFT)

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the input shaft does not wiggle (well veryverylittle).   the nipple that is pinned to that shaft is wiggling.   not much at that diameter, but is significant at the shifter.

my gut feeling for repair is to drill/ream the pin hole larger and new fitted pin.

just the location would require right hand drill and a steadier hand than mine

without the gate is the way to go, BUT just for looks, I want a gate

using a distrubuter so just single spark.   since I've had it back the performance has been questionable, but this is embarrising and probably doing damage.

In fact I think that right muffler is restricting as the pulse of "normal" is very noticably less than left side.

right now I'm just going to leave it parked.   we've got a week of heavy rains and wind

Joe, I had been up at the lake where I have forgotten my p/w for this account, until this afternoon (at home my PC remembers it or something).  Not sure what all has transpired (maybe Four Oaks show, your appointment, etc.) since we drove it last Thursday when I thought it was running well overall, with the exception of 2 "hiccups," but I didn't push it very hard.  Obviously these passenger bank plugs are fouled (2nd from left in pic maybe not so bad, hard to tell from that angle).  Probably the driver's side are, too.  I would strongly suspect your heated wideband O2 sensor is also now fouled, which will keep your system from learning and proper operation (as you know, been there, done that).  Those can be a bit pricey, when I last replaced mine it was around $130 from Summit with tax and shipping, and I re-fouled mine and new plugs very quickly, the reason I switched back to a carb as you know.  But I may have had some other exhaust leaks at the time still, and my EFI system model had more of a reputation for that way-rich idle circuit than your system.  Do you have an O2 sensor tool?  I have one, but they're not very expensive, I have the sorta cylindrical type that plugs onto a probably 3/8" ratchet, with a slot to clear its wires.  Usually easy to replace, easier than the plugs I suspect if the shop did the bung for it with easy access in mind, but the bung needs some upward orientation, as I'm sure they knew.  I "think" you may have the Sniper 2, which has a good reputation if so, but you still need some knowledgeable tuning help it sounds like, and that's hard to get in areas like ours for aftermarket throttle body EFI.  Maybe you can confirm that so others have a clearer picture here.  --Lee

Last edited by buttondoor
@jfb05177 posted:

"don't ask me how i did it, I just did it, it was hard"

changed the right back plugs.   from the top.

It did make a differance.   the popping at idle seems to went away.   still can just hear random popping at cruise.

the right muffler is still significantly quiter than left.

Not pretty… I would go for a “spirited” drive.. rpm, going thru the gears….

plugs look like what my dad had in his car when he was 83 years old… (35mph top speed)

Last edited by LeMans850i

Lee, following Four Oaks, the right side exhaust was popping hard enough to possible bust a muffler.   the day after the popping occured at idle.   the youtube audio above.

the new right side plugs helped,   test drive, I can hear a light popping less often and had a carb hickup.   I'm still concern that the exhaust pulse out of the right is still much less than left.  wonder if unbalance back presssure is causing problems.

LaMans,  driving is the Plan!.   Given I aint that good of a driver, I do stay in the lower rpms, but avoid Lugging below 1800.    plan to start taking shifts to 3500

Last edited by jfb05177

I don't think low RPMs are an issue here, both Joe and I were hitting reasonably high RPMs a week ago on his car (Ron McCall swapped out my ring gear to 3.77, which I have now gotten accustomed to, so if anything I was mentally surprised to see Joe's tach going as high in each gear shifting naturally, but Joe still has a stock ring gear).  Not to mention that when I drove his, I "missed" 2 shifts due to the ZF in the 4th gate still hitting 2nd, briefly, not under continued acceleration.  It's interesting because the stick still settles to the left side of the 4th gate even in 4th (probably related to the rotation in his diagram at the "tapper pin").  But overall the shifting was so close to excellent, and I only had a couple hours at the time, and by the time we both did a country drive, it didn't make sense to break loose the turnbuckle to try to "perfect" it.  All the joints (trunion, shifter u-joints) appeared tight/solid visually watching the other go through the gears. You just learn to go all the way to the right side of the gate to hit 4th and 5th, not hard to do.  He had his resto shop follow George P's 500 HP 351C formula with this build (pretty bombproof), a couple of brief "missed" shifts hitting 4,500+ certainly wouldn't be an issue here, none close to redline.  But they're also not going to fix any fouled O2 sensor.  I definitely wouldn't have suspected any valvetrain, etc., issue a week ago, but with some new mileage since then, and I haven't seen this new issue firsthand, and I see the couple flames in his video from the passenger tailpipe, which I think was still on the fouled plugs.  Swapping out the driver's side plugs will probably continue to help, for now.  But it's not a carbureted engine and still in fairly early stages of EFI tuning (which "should" be self-learning but isn't always that simple), and neither his nor my main driving with our P-cars is in particularly "idle circuit" places, our drives are usually substantially highway.  I don't claim to be a master mechanic by any means, it's why I'm trying to add some details for the collective brain trust here, but I've had up to 2 P-cars at once, over 25+ years, I've done most projects by now, most several times over.  Normally I would agree with the spirited driving theory, but I doubt that's going to be the fix in this case.  I also doubt there's any "mechanical" issue.  FWIW.

thumbnail [13)A picture of Taper Reamers and Taper Pins.

Reamers are turned 'Clock-Wise'...Backing-Out by turning it 'Counter Clock-Wise', will destroy the cutting edges! This will Chip-Off the Cutting Edge, and make it forever Useless. Look at the Ends of these Reamers and see the 'Square' Drive End. This Denotes a 'Hand' Reamer. (Not a 'Machine' Reamer) The square drive is used in a 'Tapping' Handle, or a 'T' Handle. Most don't know, the Hand reamer Square drive, can also be used in a Rachet Handle with a 8-Point or 12 Point Socket. CW Only.thumbnail [13)

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Last edited by marlinjack
@jfb05177 posted:

Lee, following Four Oaks, the right side exhaust was popping hard enough to possible bust a muffler.   the day after the popping occured at idle.   the youtube audio above.

the new right side plugs helped,   test drive, I can hear a light popping less often and had a carb hickup.   I'm still concern that the exhaust pulse out of the right is still much less than left.  wonder if unbalance back presssure is causing problems.

LaMans,  driving is the Plan!.   Given I aint that good of a driver, I do stay in the lower rpms, but avoid Lugging below 1800.    plan to start taking shifts to 3500

Once you figure out the bigger problem, You also may consider changing to hotter spark plugs (if the plugs left and right don’t have a better color just to suit your driving style ) do a compression test while you are at it!
That the muffler may have a baffle loose and blocking the exhaust flow is a possibility…

Last edited by LeMans850i

...I have Tested ALL the Autolite Plugs! 24 is too cold 26 is Too HOT and will cause Pinging in a 'Normal' running Engine. 25's are Perfect by My Testing!

You can go to Hotter #26 Plugs, but until You fix the Problem of Oil being sucked into EVERY Cylinder of That Bank, you're just going to be Burning Oil and Replacing Plugs!! ALL 4 Cylinder Spark Plugs Are 'Oiled', Equally!! There is NO Fix For it. I would Take the Manifold Off, I'll bet it's the Intake Gasket! Intake Gaskets are Very Tricky to get Right!!! They Eather Seal Correctly or It's Very Easy to get them Out of Place. On 4V Ports the Gasket covers less than 1/4" around the Perimeter Bottom. That is why I invented the '4 Stud' Guiding System, it Holds the Gasket Correct, while you drop the Manifold Straight Down! ALL of that Oil is NOT Normal! Yes! I Invented it! I first posted it here Many Years ago. Enough said.

How does the Other Bank of Plugs Look? NOT as Fouled, then it's the RIGHT Gasket. All 8 Plugs Fouled...It's the PVC Valve OR the Entire Manifold is Not sealing against the Valley, My Guess.

MJ

Last edited by marlinjack

MJ and all, thanks for your responses, I'm learning some things, both about tapered holes and pins, as well as oil consumption.  I've always respected your expertise in your knowledge base here.  I think this will help Joe move forward on these issues, which is all I'm trying to facilitate.

Link to thread for Marlin's 4 stud guiding system for intake R&R, so others can see:

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...old-guide-studs-5-16

Is there a way to confirm that to be an issue first?  (His is a "new" build, at this point maybe a few years old but with minimal mileage).  Do EFI fuel pumps have a check valve to stop fuel flow when not powered in case we had to disconnect a fuel line?  I have a ball valve shutoff near the tank on mine now, but Joe may not.  The shop that did his resto is hours away.  Joe has been hoping to attend the Naval base Fleet Fest event in Norfolk in a month organized by the Long Island POCA chapter, as will I.  Intake R&R is not my strong suit, but I have gasket scrapers, torque wrench, etc. and have assisted with it a few times, I understand basic torque patterns and can look up torque specs.   I have no idea what intake gasket system they used, but suggestions welcome, for whoever does the R&R--also for valve cover gaskets if they need to be replaced.  I'm guessing dizzy doesn't have to come out, probably just cap to come off?  It's been years since I had a 351C.  I know it's a dry intake.

MJ - THANKS for Your input, I read every word.   I might take fore ever to act but all you have said has been noted and hopefully will be done.  

My "reasoning" for only right bank plugs was left exhaust sounded GOOD while right was popping, if I pull to look, just as well replace.AND I was exhuasted and sore after doing one side!   double dose acetaminophen not helping today.

the as found gaps were ~0.035 and that is what I went back with.   Next time I due 0.045

I don't see any blue smoke at idle, cruising or moderate acceleration.  (not to say it is not there)

I installed a clear fuel filter between PCV and carb to see how much blowby might be happening.   400 miles and filter is dark, but no oil in bottom.  At idle and filler cap open (PVC connected) there is air being sucked in valve cover.  also in 5000 miles, I might could say cold oil level is only slightly lower.

I also think a compression test would be nice.  but more work than I want to do

today's tank of gas drive has been "one gear down" so rpms ran about 2300 to 3500, with a couple pulls to 4500.    (local back roads here at 45 and 55 mph).  actually a whole lot more fun! than 1800 to 2300 cruising.

I'm not betting on a couple more years

and thinking about cancelling reservations for Norfolk (but hold on to HOPE)

one "bank" popping is more than likely ONE cylinder and could be as simple as one plug wire is loose or bad.  it's highly unlikely a muffler is causing it.  The car is running very, very rich as evidenced by the condition of the plugs you removed.   You need to get to the bottom of that but, a bad plug wire or plug would cause it to pop.  Tell me how I know.

Buy a $50 standard ignition products plug wire set and cap and rotor and replace all the plugs.  Start there.  then tune the carb mixture.  basic stuff to see where you are then.

Last edited by panterapatt

I also have a compression gauge (if it wasn't stolen, I haven't seen it lately) and remote starter switch, not really hard to check compression, but this is a new bombproof 351C build, that won't likely be an issue.  I never saw blue smoke, but neither of us was following from behind on our drives nor saw it in rearview.  Same should be true for plug wires, cap and rotor.  But I am not a diagnostician.  But we do need to isolate the reason for wet/fouled plugs, whether from oil or rich A/F mixture.  I tend to agree it looks like oil as a couple have speculated.  If excess fuel is washing down cylinder walls, a normal oil dipstick level can be misleading.

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