External fuel filler mod

That patch (center of it) is located just about where the longest indentation rib is on the sailpanel.

To get a “proper eyeball “ on the situation I removed the filler elbow

And then drained the tank of all the 8 year old fuel 😳. Maple syrup?

clear hose and a piece of brake line stuffed in the end, still sticking out 1/2 inch so I can hear it touching the bottom, pull up 1/8 inch, tape hose to the piller and hose going down the side.. into my monster gas can…. Little suck with the vacuum pump and monitor… 55 minutes long…

10 gallons later.. empty

It’s just not really possible to show it in pictures but the angle from the original intended hole to the gas tank fill hole is rather shallow… so I won’t use that location but I go up to the next indentation rib.

Now here are the fuel caps I want to use

They are the same, one chrome and the other black, designed like mini cobra fuel flip up caps.

For my taste the aviation cap is to big and to modern looking, having recessed fuel filler with a door is too complex and I think that cap is pretty and no need to hide!

I have not decided on black or chrome…

The cap has a threaded flange I turned to 1.5”. Then the flange into the gas tank I made with a 2 1/8”hole vs. the 2.5” from the original…. It just gives me more  wiggle room for the 2” stainless steel elbow to tig weld and to get the angle and the clearance for the 3 o’clock bolt!

Because I intend to mount the filler in the piller and just use the ribbed sail panel as trim I want to make sure everything is lining up properly… I am drilling thru 3 layers, trim, outer skin and inner skin!

so I set out to make a mock up trim panel

its important that the hinge and the locking part sit in the depression… so the hole in the skin has to be exactly at the right place!

Here is the filler assembly…

fuel resistant hose 1.5” to 2”

next is to test it at the gas station, stick it in a 5 gallon gas can and check how it flows before I start cutting anything! I still need to trim some of the tubing going into the gas tank… about bottom of blue tape!

(tape is on it so I can’t drop it into the tank!)

With the fill test I want to see the nozzle reach, back splash and if I have to add a vent tube in the filler neck.

One of the studs on my black trim panel is messed up… Does anybody know if they are just threaded into the casting or are they cast into it??

I seem to recall they are threaded into the casting. Easy enough to check, jamming two nuts together

you are slowly making progress and that’s a good thing especially testing the flow of fuel. Just cutting a hole and hoping everything else will work is a dangerous way to go. Looking forward to your finished product.

Larry

I give WD40 a go first and then vice grips..

threads are gone at the base 5/8” up

that’s the problem… I can go washer, spacer, nut -  to hold it on but… well I know it’s not right and I bugs me… 🤪

I went to several different gas stations today to check the flow of my filler neck and I have to say that I never noticed that there are so many different nozzles… long and short (2” only) with and without spring around, long sleeve to suck vapor off…

anyway.. it worked well… very good on the shorter nozzles and okay on others.. I don’t think it’s any different compared to the original… I use this design and keep working on it!

Locating where I want the fuel filler.

I abandoned the first hole!

I am going one inch higher than DeTomaso did.. I think the additional slope helps for the filling, and clearance for the bolt on the flange at 9 o’clock.

I’ve been straight up, same location within the recess and drilled my hole! Because how the panel is more slanted in the back than in the front. I abandoned that hole as well, and moved it slightly to the left! Taped off the incorrect holes…

and made a mark with a drill

And now it’s destruction time…

The largest diameter on the fuel filler cap is 3 inches , and because their panel is going over there already mounted fuel filler cap start out with a nice big 3 inch hole,!

battery died… Time to take a look

filed out the recess for the closing and hinge mechanism.

and that’s how it looks!

i’ll paint black around the filler cap before assembling it.

I’m just glad I cast this markup panel!

If I would’ve done the chop on the real part, I would’ve broken out in sweat! All the holes would not have mattered because it’s all within the part that’s going to disappear anyway.. but still..

the finish work on the metal panel is going to be much easier, much nicer, because that casting here is quite brittle being fiberglass  and resin!

I let this simmer right now in my brain… Thinking, maybe to go with a different way of assembling it and make the hole only 2 3/4 of an inch diameter

Chrome looks pretty good too.. I may even like it better… make it a feature versus hiding it!

(I’m a little late to the party with this suggestion, but…)

There was a thread somewhere in which one individual hinged the whole gill at the front, and I think he had a post/grommet setup at the rear to hold the gill closed.

Hinged that way, the airflow couldn’t open the gill.

He inset his new filler neck into the metal behind the hinged gill panel.

Your solution looks very good too!  Keep plugging along!  And keep posting pictures!  We love to watch progress!

Rocky

@rocky posted:

(I’m a little late to the party with this suggestion, but…)

There was a thread somewhere in which one individual hinged the whole gill at the front, and I think he had a post/grommet setup at the rear to hold the gill closed.

Hinged that way, the airflow couldn’t open the gill.

He inset his new filler neck into the metal behind the hinged gill panel.

Your solution looks very good too!  Keep plugging along!  And keep posting pictures!  We love to watch progress!

Rocky

Yes, Rocky, I saw that! It was and monstrosity of hinges… I think I tried to keep it simple… and in 1970s style!

black or chrome… What do you think?

I just read your thread. How you Went over your whole car… Pretty much did everything! I’m gonna pick your brain on occasion, if I may… I’m a Pantera Owner only for three or four months, so I’m still learning and learning  a lot! I am reading this forum inside out, top to bottom and there’s no end to it… It’s like a library without walls… endless!!!!

Thanks for the compliment!

I like the chrome, myself, but to each his own!

Rocky

Both look great.  As you said do you want to hide it or stand out.  I think 70s would be chrome.  On old months go black, even months go chrome. LOL.  Larry

I decided to make a second test cut on my other fiberglass panel I made… I would like to have a little less gap between the panel and the filler cap base..

the first time I used a 3” hole saw because I thought the filler cap itself is 3” and the panel get mounted after the cap assembly is installed… the cap base is 2 1/2” so I got 1/4” gap around the base! Just didn’t feel right…

now with the cutouts for the hinge and the little locking mechanism I actually could get the 3” cap though a 2 3/4” hole, leaving me with only 1/8” gap around the base! I’m good with that!

local stores didn’t have a 2 3/4 hole saw so I ordered one.. coming Saturday!

I'm also thinking about moving the cap down one rib.. still higher then center of the panel… looks better but higher location would fill better… decisions, decisions, decisions,…🤔🤪

( and that’s why I made a mold to make some panels to be able to f@$& up)

Agreed Roland, moving it down and a smaller hole I think will look better and have a little more product before the end of the panel.  Right now you are close with the hinge and locking mechanism cut outs to the ends of the panel.  Larry

@Lardog posted:

Agreed Roland, moving it down and a smaller hole I think will look better and have a little more product before the end of the panel.  Right now you are close with the hinge and locking mechanism cut outs to the ends of the panel.  Larry

Agreed 100%… it’s a process.. Lol

here is again..center between the ribs equals half inch down from the top of the ridge. Then center of the ring 90° to it… X marks the spot, this time with the number to be able to repeat it… 80 mm

then drilled pilot hole and hold sawed with 2 3/4” hole saw instead of the 3” from the back

here’s the direct comparison:

2 3/4@ hole is perfect fit! I am happy!

i’m only half inch higher than the original filler location from the factory… that does not make me so happy but (compared to the 1.5 inches I had before ).   well sometimes there’s a trade-off between beauty and super Duper functionality,! it might even work out, it is still more angle in the filler tube than the original ever had!

and once again, I let it simmer in my brain…. And Look what you guys have to say to it and tomorrow - maybe I’m going to poke real holes in the real metal!

(am I glad I made those fiberglass covers!!!!!)

I like the new location.  Larry

@Lardog posted:

I like the new location.  Larry

I do too… and with the chrome filler cap, I think it looks killer…

Roland, I think the chrome works well because it picks up on the other bright work around the window.  And if you are going for a 70s look, then chrome is it. IMO.  Larry

well, it’s done,!🥵

same as the last time… then drill pilot hole…
The lower drill mark is the center for the 1 1/2 “ hole at this spot!  It was important to make the mark with the drill through the panel being 90° to that surface and not to the grill outside!  It is angled,!!

drilling from the back…

being very careful with the hole saw so it can’t catch and break a rib in the panel!

marked outlines for  Hinge and lock..

and carefully  Filing my way towards them..

it’s a very close fit! 1/8” around..point of no return…

and it’s like giving yourself a root canal, OMG 😱

at least from here on out, it’s just connecting dots lol.

You're getting closer.  Now the drill the yellow body and you are home free.  Looking Good!

@Lardog posted:

You're getting closer.  Now the drill the yellow body and you are home free.  Looking Good!

Next is pilot hole from the outside through the outer skin and inner skin 90° to the Outside skin… then I have an idea with the filler neck goes..

hopefully I’m in the ballpark what I expected where I should end up..

then drill outside 1.75 inches, the inside 2.5 inches!

Here it is:

covered fuel filler hole with the red aluminum plate… this shows the angle I come in.. not bad..

the fuel cap is not bottomed out onto the sheet metal… I have to “flair” the ribs for it to come down! I guess another 5mm

I used the long drill I had to mark the spot with paint … the angle of the inner fender didn’t let me drill through in one go!

I going to see if I have a way to get a pilot hole going and then shoot with the hole saw and an extension from the outside in… maybe..🤔

it definitely will be a Chinese puzzle putting the finished project together..

the big 3” hole would have been the easiest but -the gap- no! Patience!

More

nothing bolted.. just stuck in..

need to do a bit more detail work…

Looks really good!

Nice work!

Rocky

thank you 🙏
Once everything is finished I get both panels powder coated flat or semi flat black…

and change to the chrome cap!

Well, making the hole in the inner B-piller was, to say it mildly, an absolute pain in pretty much any part humanly possible and loosing a more or less important body part is always possible till very very last second until the hole is exactly where it needs to be!

I can not make any recommendations how to go about this job…  you are working in limited space, very counterproductive angles of sheet metal ( which is responsible that the hole isn’t really round from this prospective) and Home Depot doesn’t sell a StarTrek phaser (the extra small version) in their tool section!
And tomorrow …a little welding.. tube to flange.. 👍

Today’s job… connecting

part A to part B

Because I went 1 inch lower – one rib lower, it became a little bit more and elaborate design to get the angle right! Also, the 9 o’clock bolt is trapped now! I had to come out in a very shallow angle to catch the filler with the second turn going upwards!

Beautiful Work!

Thank you.

Tomorrow finishing work on the filler tube..I might leave it stainless steel (little polishing ) and finish the cut out of the panel.. smoothening out sharp corners and get both panels ready for Powder Coating

Tedious little work right now, try to get everything dialed in to the closest millimeter to have enough clearance for the hinge of the fuel cap and the lever for Opening the cap. Nothing to see here… posting updates as i get stuff done.

but simultaneously I’m gonna start the next project… it’s a controversial project….that much I know!

powersteering

Cleaned up…

Pretty… and the check again with the water hose… Faucet open all the way 5 inches away from the opening and zero splash back! I think it should work if the venting of the gas tank is appropriate!

blacking out where i may be able to see yellow underneath around the gas filler!

Wheel house seal..

Great work, Roland!

Very cool!

Ready for Powder coating..

(that raggedy hole for the fuel filler is in reality really smooth like a babies ass! There is not one sharp corner whatsoever)

Warn your powdercoater; these are fairly porous castings and outgassing can be a problem. If they bake them for a while, before powdercoating, it will minimize the chances of outgassing during the post-powdercoating bake.

As an alternative finish, try Cerakote. It does not need to be baked, so outgassing isn't an issue. I've used one called CERAKOTE GLACIER BLACK. It's a semi-gloss black and looks just like semi-gloss black powder coat. It's also rated to 1,800° Fahrenheit, so it's great for headers and brake calipers.

Thank you for the heads up.!

Hey Lemans

You shot of your new filler position reminded me of something to keep in mind, if you are ever put in a position where you have to siphon petrol into your fuel tank from a can of fuel on the side of the road .

Not that I am saying panteras ever run out of petrol or the gauges are sometimes wildly optimistic.

Make extra sure the hose does not come out in the middle of the siphoning operation. Get a second person to hold it in.

Any spilt fuel will almost certainly  run straight down the fender face into LH gunnel of the rear bonnet , and drop straight onto your hot exhaust pipe , which is perfectly aligned below , creating much excitement.

Don't ask me how I know...

@Percy posted:

Hey Lemans

Any spilt fuel will almost certainly  run straight down the fender face into LH gunnel of the rear bonnet , and drop straight onto your hot exhaust pipe , which is perfectly aligned below , creating much excitement.

Don't ask me how I know...

yes!!! So true!!! I couldn’t believe when I saw the original setup for the first time!

there was NO WAY i would have kept that filler setup!

I had   engine oil!!!!  ignited on the header on my E21 Alpina… (minor loss of eyebrows) 😳

Great wok!

Sorry it took so long to finish this project but some of you guys may know I do a lot of things on this car… And Powersteering took a long time and and and and let’s  just call it excuses… well, it’s finished now…

3 studs holding the filler cap base to the car, the panel powder coated, everything adjusted and tightens, hose clamps installed… and the way I did it and the result in pictures…

Now the question to ask, is, do I like it, and would I do it again and the answer is  YES, both times! it looks period correct!!👍👍

The real important thing is the placement on the panel and the tedious finishing off all the moving parts and… I am happy with what came out… I could have done better I think… More test fitting but I’m happy. But I’m getting annoyed by 1 mm off so being half a millimeter off is OK with me😊

moving onto the next project I am requiring a little help… Limited time to get it done and helping hands appreciated…

Engine cooling system…..

That looks really nice.

I had an idea the other day that maybe someone has done or maybe it's a dumb idea and never tried before.

Might be interesting to do the same exercise on the passenger side but for adding coolant? Just don't Criss/Cross the two when refilling.

@jwelch68 posted:

That looks really nice.

I had an idea the other day that maybe someone has done or maybe it's a dumb idea and never tried before.

Might be interesting to do the same exercise on the passenger side but for adding coolant? Just don't Criss/Cross the two when refilling.

The idea doing something on the right hand side did cross my mind… I was thinking more in the direction of oil dipstick…

coolant would be probably doable but would you open it when it’s hot in that location…..

like they always say:  location, location, location-

and no place to hide 🫣💥☄️💦💦💦

the squeeze is not worth the juice!

Really nice finish Roland!

It came out great!

Chuck

Thank you very much! The more I look at it the more it grows on me!
I really like it!

and chrome was the right choice!

Roland, Came out GREAT!  Hope to see your car at the Palooza! Larry

I put gas I it with a Jerry can… absolutely beautiful, not a single drop backsplash,!!

low fuel light goes off at exactly 3 gallons..

I have -4066. It is an early '73. It came with the internal fuel filler.

I basically did the same thing that you have except I used the factory parts for the "can" and the filler neck. Wilkinson had them and that's where I got them from.

I had gotten the exterior hinged factory grill from him as well but the way that I use the car, it was still cumbersome.

I had the idea of the Cobra external cap but I chose the SC version. At the time Contemporary Cobra was 15 minutes a way from me and I bought that cap from him.

It's a big sucker and I considered notching the gills as you did but because that thing is a casting of unknown strength, I just opted to not notch it.

I wound up drilling out the original gills with a hole saw as you did and that was a simple task since the casting is so soft to begin with.

I am happy with the results but you have reminded me of considering the notches to lower the profile. I'll look at it again since you have successfully done it but I'm still not confident that it is not going to leave too little of the grill for comfort?

Are you guys sure that those studs unthread from the gills?

@panteradoug do you have a picture of what you have?

The cobra filler cap is huge! How big of a hole did you cut?

maybe you can use what you did and use the small version..?

original part before turned down