Fuel line no gas again

The placement of the pump ... where is it located .. mech or electric ? .. is this pump is mounted up high ? Is there a filter before the pump ?

R

Do you have the kind of pickup from the tank that is through a banjo fitting on the top of the tank, or a pipe that comes out of the plate that contains the wires for the sender?

If the former, then disconnect the banjo fitting and make sure there are no goobers blocking the small orifices in that connection. They can trap sealant or rust particles very easily.

The other possibility is that if this car sat for a long period of time with a low fuel level, then the pickup tube may have developed a pinhole due to corrosion.

Its a mech pump. Has the plate with wires on top of the tank. I had it working fine 2 months ago, or so I thought. Filter is after the pump. I will check for blockage in the fittings. If the pickup has a pinhole leak, that would require to remove the tank? That would suck but thats life. I will post what I find out this weekend.

The early cars had a pickup tube that extended into the tank with a banjo fitting on the top. The fuel sender was just that. On the later cars the pickup tube is part of the fuel sender unit. The pickup tube on the early cars develop pin holes as they corrode which causes the fuel pump to draw in air and fuel which will starve the pump. There is also a filter sock on the end which can be removed by "mechanical means" without removing the tank. The simple fix is to replace youe fuel sender with a later model (available from vendors, although other cars use a very similar design). You can leave the old pickup tube installed. Makes for a good return if you use fuel injection.

quote:

Has the plate with wires on top of the tank. If the pickup has a pinhole leak, that would require to remove the tank?

You have the later system, which can be replaced without removing the fuel tank.

John

I will take a picture of the top of the tank today. Also my fuel gauge does not work anymore either. Will not budge off of 1/8 of a tank. Does that mean anything? The pickup and the sender is one unit?

The pick up and sender is one unit on the newer models. Yours may not be so just upgrade to the new one and cap off the old pick up tube or use the old one as a return fuel line if you are going to run fuel injection as someone else said already.

Took a picture. I am going to try some air through the line to the tank. I havnt tested my gauge yet but I would guess the sender is bad and is old anyway. Might not be a bad idea to replace it either way.

That's the later fuel sender. Looks like your tank originally had the banjo fitting. That hole should have been plugged.

John

Attached a line to the top of the tank and blew through it no problem. Attached the fuel line again and made sure everything was tight. Cranked over the engine 3 different times. Looked at the fuel pressure gauge I put inline a while back and it reads about 7pds. So that looks like its working to me. Next I checked the carb, Dry inside. Pumped the carb a few times and no gas. The 2 squirtersarenot squirting. Taking it off to clean it in an hour or so.

Opened the carb. So who knows why I have green slime and how do I get rid of it for good? Last time I opened the carb a few months back I had it then too. Any ideas?

Yuck

Looks to me like there is moisture in the fuel tank? Look to see if there is a drain plug for the fuel tank at the bottom. If so and if you can remove the plug without doing any damage I would drain the tank to see if rust and other stuff is in your fuel.

Cleaned the carb of all the green. That was the problem again. Yeah must be from water or moisture. Tried to take out as much of the old gas as possible. I siphoned it out best I could. Added some Heet in case there was some still in the tank. Started up no problem. Now if I could just make sure all that crap is gone. Best way is to drive it some but really cant drive it all that much right now. Thanks for the help. Least I know what the problem is for next time.

The green stuff is undoubtably copper salt- a reaction compound between copper/brass and water or acids. The fuel tank drain plug is likely age-welded in place and may need drilling out. The vendors usually have replacement plugs; an air-impact gun set on 'medium impact' and patience as it chatters away on its socket for a few minutes, sometimes will loosen tight plugs without damage to either plug or tank.
Given your problems so far, I'd completely empty the tank however you can, run a shop-vac hose in thru the filler or sender hole for a few hours to dry it out, flush it with alcohol to remove the last traces of water in tank seams, then proceed as if you were restoring an old car's tank. Expect perforations in the welded fuel-out line if its a pre-'73 tank. This will eventually cause you to run out of gas when the level gets to the lowest corrosion hole in the line. Changing to a late fuel sender with integral fuel-out spigot cheaply cures an inaccessible perforated line. It is a true bolt-in mod; one of a very few.

Well I let it sit again for 2 months and no gas. I really think theres a problem with the fuel pickup tube/sender. So Im going to start on replacing it. Was reading about the war about the side window. Guess I will try to do it without removing it first. I think the rubber around the window might be old as dirt and could be a problem. I will take pictures since I never found and on here yet. Almost positive theres a hole in the pickup tube Pump is good, theres just not as much gas in the tank and I know if I add enough above the hole it will pump some gas. My gas gauge has been stuck on empty too so its an all around fix I hope.

You have the early gas tank (like me) and the pickup was replaced or updated at some point with the newer type.

The tubes are steel and they will rust through with a pin hole size so small it's tough to find.

The original pickup hole needs to be plugged. It is allowing moisture into the tank every time you wash the car.

Most likely the newer pickup has holed through also.

If you are going to let the car just lay there for long periods of time, best to do it with a FULL tank of gas.

Those rust holes tend to appear at the level the gas was at for extended periods.

Wilkinson has new pick ups/senders for $169.95. He is the sole importer of that part and if you want to pay more to another vendor like Hall who sells it for $230, and gets it from Wilkinson, it's your choice.

I JUST went through this with my car. It is the pick-up TUBE IN THE TANK.

http://www.panterapartsusa.com...l.cgi?prod_id=09003A

Incidentally with these corrosion issues apparent in your tank, you should slosh it, then tefflon coat the inside of the tank.

The tanks rust out too. A new steel one is $995 and a stainless one is $1100, but you need to pull the engine out to change it.

I sloshed and tefloned mine in 1986. I was just in there with the procotology scope I borrowed from the OR and the teflon is still in place with no sign of rust anywhere. No polups either!

Thanks doug. Which hole should have been plugged? So you saw my picure, one is the updated pickup and the other goes to that fuel canister breather vent (black bucket)

There is a third hole.

Looking at your picture there is the threaded insert where the banjo connected to the top of the tank with a hollow 6mm allen socket bolt.

That is the top of the old pick-up tube and it is wide open into the tank.

Thread a 6mm bolt into that to plug it.

I checked what you said about the hole just now. It is a solid bolt in that hole. So someone did it right back then I guess. So you think its impossible to get out the old pickup without removing the side glass?

I saw Wilkinsons pickup the other day and did like the price. Some reason I look at his site first most of the time for real parts.

Possible? No. Take the window out. It is NOT difficult.
It is a neoprene gasket and should have no caulking or adhesive on it at all.

With the glass out it is a simple easy process.

I don't think you can get the new pickup in the tank unless you go through that window opening.

It goes in the tank ONE way and you can not bend the thing to force it in.

The stainless trim comes off first and all in one piece, then you can pry the rubber gasket with a putty knife to get it started and pull it out with you hands.

If you look at the window from inside of the engine compartment you will clearly see the inside flange of the rubber gasket.

Thanks again doug. I think I will remove the window. I rather not break my back trying to twist into that little corner. Starting on it tomorrow.

I understand that all of our cars are a little different. However, I had no difficulty removing and replacing the sender in 5249 with the window in place.

Check out this thread.

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...=623100776#623100776

Took some pictures. Used a 7mm socket to remove the bolts. Lifted right up, had to turn a bit and figure out the best angle to get it through the opening. Float was shot for sure since it was full of fuel. Some corrosion all over the rod. Can not really tell if there a pinhole in it or not. Assuming there is just to get the whole new unit. So far not so hard except if youre about 4 foot 10 its a lot easier to reach.

Another pic

another

Picture of the sending unit. Cant really see the gas in the float but its there.

gas in float

das kaput!

Too hard to tell if theres a hole in the feed tube. Still just going to replace it. I did get it out without removing the window. Dont know if I can get one in the same way yet. Will take pics anyway. Least I am pretty sure the gas gauge will be "alive" again. Got use to the reserve light on all the time.

I had someone turn the car over and put my thumb on the end of the hose thats connected to the fuel pump. Any kind of guess how much suction I should be feeling? I only feel a slight suction.

quote:

Originally posted by daxters75:
I had someone turn the car over and put my thumb on the end of the hose thats connected to the fuel pump. Any kind of guess how much suction I should be feeling? I only feel a slight suction.

It should leave a pretty good mark on your finger. Stock fuel pumps are not known for their dependability.

I always use an electric pump before the mechanical pump. They help to prime the engine when it's been laying for awhile.

Trying to start the car dry also stresses out the diaphragm in the mechanical pump. It needs to be kept wet if it's going to have longevity.

Taking out the old pickup without taking out the window is fine. I think it's just a waste of time since it's so easy to pull the window out.

Consider though that the new one goes in only one way and the sender on it is a little on the fragile side.

If you try to manhandle it trying to get it in, you can hang up the float lever or hurt the sender.

Entering late to previous posts submitted; however, a few items.
In the street rod community, a number of friends are finding collapsed rubber hoses or deterioration in rubber hoses due to ethanol content in today's gasoline. Symptoms include "slime content" in fuel, and blockage to carburetor inlets, jets, etc. to the point that engine will/will not "fire" for only a short time. (Don't know if this is the green content pictured).
Have you attempted to start with fuel cap removed?
You stated your pressure gauge reads 7 pds pressure after fuel pump. Are there any rubber hoses after the fuel pump to carburetor?
If you have taken the line off at the point of entry to the carburetor, is there a screen at the point of entry, and what is condition?
Responding to your latest post regarding the suction of the pump: Have you removed your pressure gauge. 5-7 pds should be enough to supply fuel. (Pantera specs for stock engine, carburetion). Another test is volume test: Again, stock configuration should produce approx. a pint after 20 seconds.

Its very [possible I will still take out the window. I dont want to risk damage ot the new sender putting it in. The suction is no way enough to leave a mark on my finger

I read jag13cat msg and I am going to remove the gauge and filter from the line to the carb. Im going to just the suction again with the fuel line clear, not hooked to the carb, and see if that has any difference.
There are no screens at the carb,

I had the fuel pickup tube tested for leaks. Nothing, anyone know where I can just buy the float so I can save 150 bucks?

Looks like my pump is not working correctly again. I will check it out this weekend.

I think the way I would test that pick up would be with a hand vacuum pump that has a gauge on it.

Pump it up. See if it holds vacuum.

I tested it at work. There were no leaks. Tomorrow checking pump again and connections, mounting and whatever I can see.

Started the car up after 1. installed new fuel pump (this time it was a pain cause Im older) 2. checked all lines. 3. Re installed pickup. 4. Removed carb and made sure everything inside was not green.

Started up ran ok but it ran. After it warmed up I adjusted my edelbrock and that got rid of any little pops from the exhaust. Adjusted the idle to 700. Runs good right now I am amazed. Fuel gauge still doesnt work though. Just the red light is on and the needle is on empty. Theres 4 gallons of gas in it. Well I know the red light works. I havnt tested the wires to the gauge yet (wishful thinking on my part). Least its running again, damn cheap ass fuel pumps. Im going to start it everyday just to make sure. No test run yet, that might be next week. Thanks for everyone's input. Hard to do it alone.