I thought that in order to use these lenses on a US car, one needed to change the entire housing?
Some people are saying that uou just need to change the lenses?
Are there two types?
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I would think you would have to replace the housing although someone, can't remember who, modified his existing housings to make them work. Worked pretty well from what I recall.
There have been a few sets of lenses for sale recently. I believe that if you look at PI parts, it says the leses fit existing housings as well. I'm sure it does, because that's what brought the question to my mind.
I'm confused because my GT4's don't fit the US housings.
Of course it is possible that no one knows what they are talking about anyway and just want to express an opinion.
I'm confused because my GT4's don't fit the US housings.
Of course it is possible that no one knows what they are talking about anyway and just want to express an opinion.
I think PIM used to (or still sells) a kit which allows you to use the GP4 lens on stock buckets. Here's a "how-to" from MACMAN who's done the conversion.
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7650045562/m/5080003603/p/1
I think Larry is selling a set of Altissimo buckets on ebay right now. Pay yer money and you're done.
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7650045562/m/5080003603/p/1
I think Larry is selling a set of Altissimo buckets on ebay right now. Pay yer money and you're done.
Group 4 pantera tail lights. Having sold eight sets on eBay, collected/repaired from here and there, I think I can answer this one. 
The stock tail lights came with just red/clear lenses. The Euro tail lights had an amber lens for the turn signal section. The housings for these two styles are EXACTLY the same. Remove the screws, remove the lens - reverse the procedure to install Euro red/amber/clear lenses.
The Group 4 housings do have the exact same footprint as the stock tail light housings. The lens to housing gasket is the same. The electrical connector plug is an exact plug-n-play swap. The Group 4 housings are not as deep as the stock housings and the mounting studs will not protrude into the engine bay area to accept the nuts and washers used on the stockers. You can easily get around this problem by using 6mm barrel nuts (couplers) but you will probably have to search for them, and the little buggers are not cheap.
But while the Group 4 lenses have the exact same footprint as the stock lenses, and will 'fit' onto stock housings, the housing is unique to the Group 4 style.
The link posted above has a photo of what was done to 'adapt' a stock housing to Group 4 lenses. Quite the creative, Rube Goldberg conversion. And while I admit you would get light shining through the Group 4 lenses with this conversion, I can't help but feel the "look" of the lighting would not be right. Bulbs and the round reflectors would not be centered in the corresponding lens sections. Part of the Group 4 'look' is the circular light source coming through the lenses, and a conversion won't provide this. True, only noticed at night, and you won't notice it at all while you are in the driver's seat. So, during the day, you got 'the look' and those following you at night probably wouldn't notice anything amiss.
Some of the vendors sell complete NOS sets, and P.I. lists NOS lenses and a conversion kit.
I know of three Group 4 lens styles. Carello and Altissimo are both original lenses. Altissimo lenses are about 1/4" deeper than the Carello lenses, meaning they stand out from the car a little farther; and the lens looks a bit different for the reverse lens. Third style is a reproduction of the Carello style by an unknown company. You can however identify them as the red reflector is embossed with the word "superreflex". These reproductions were cast entirely from clear plastic, and spray on dye was used to create the red and amber sections. This coating is prone to flaking, and may over time degrade and fade. One eBay seller offers "NEW" Group 4 lenses, but despite repeated questions to him, he refuses to answer whether these are Carello, Altissimo or the cheap "NEW" reproductions. That makes me think they are the reproductions. I have a set sitting in my garage that I really would be embarrassed to sell. They look okay, and most folks would never pick up on the reproduction aspect, but I don't like them.
I currently am listing a restored housings/NOS lenses set on eBay. Buy it now is $335. This is an Altissimo set, not the Carello style which I believe was the style always used by De Tomaso. Most people do not even notice the difference between the two unless I point it out to them. To see the difference in the two lenses, view my auction where I have photos of Carello and Altissimo lenses.
View the auction, and photos of housings/lenses at -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIte..._W0QQfromZR40QQfviZ1
If I didn't answer everyone's questions with all this, just ask.
Larry
The stock tail lights came with just red/clear lenses. The Euro tail lights had an amber lens for the turn signal section. The housings for these two styles are EXACTLY the same. Remove the screws, remove the lens - reverse the procedure to install Euro red/amber/clear lenses.
The Group 4 housings do have the exact same footprint as the stock tail light housings. The lens to housing gasket is the same. The electrical connector plug is an exact plug-n-play swap. The Group 4 housings are not as deep as the stock housings and the mounting studs will not protrude into the engine bay area to accept the nuts and washers used on the stockers. You can easily get around this problem by using 6mm barrel nuts (couplers) but you will probably have to search for them, and the little buggers are not cheap.
But while the Group 4 lenses have the exact same footprint as the stock lenses, and will 'fit' onto stock housings, the housing is unique to the Group 4 style.
The link posted above has a photo of what was done to 'adapt' a stock housing to Group 4 lenses. Quite the creative, Rube Goldberg conversion. And while I admit you would get light shining through the Group 4 lenses with this conversion, I can't help but feel the "look" of the lighting would not be right. Bulbs and the round reflectors would not be centered in the corresponding lens sections. Part of the Group 4 'look' is the circular light source coming through the lenses, and a conversion won't provide this. True, only noticed at night, and you won't notice it at all while you are in the driver's seat.
So, during the day, you got 'the look' and those following you at night probably wouldn't notice anything amiss.Some of the vendors sell complete NOS sets, and P.I. lists NOS lenses and a conversion kit.
I know of three Group 4 lens styles. Carello and Altissimo are both original lenses. Altissimo lenses are about 1/4" deeper than the Carello lenses, meaning they stand out from the car a little farther; and the lens looks a bit different for the reverse lens. Third style is a reproduction of the Carello style by an unknown company. You can however identify them as the red reflector is embossed with the word "superreflex". These reproductions were cast entirely from clear plastic, and spray on dye was used to create the red and amber sections. This coating is prone to flaking, and may over time degrade and fade. One eBay seller offers "NEW" Group 4 lenses, but despite repeated questions to him, he refuses to answer whether these are Carello, Altissimo or the cheap "NEW" reproductions. That makes me think they are the reproductions. I have a set sitting in my garage that I really would be embarrassed to sell. They look okay, and most folks would never pick up on the reproduction aspect, but I don't like them.
I currently am listing a restored housings/NOS lenses set on eBay. Buy it now is $335. This is an Altissimo set, not the Carello style which I believe was the style always used by De Tomaso. Most people do not even notice the difference between the two unless I point it out to them. To see the difference in the two lenses, view my auction where I have photos of Carello and Altissimo lenses.
View the auction, and photos of housings/lenses at -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIte..._W0QQfromZR40QQfviZ1
If I didn't answer everyone's questions with all this, just ask.
Larry
OK, I do see the differences in the lenses. Mine are definately Carello.
You answered all of my questions except, what should I expect to pay for a pair of replacement Carello lenses?
Also, have you tried replacing the bulbs with LED's?
Thanks Larry, you are now the official expert on the GT4 lenses. Perhaps George will crown you with a title?
You answered all of my questions except, what should I expect to pay for a pair of replacement Carello lenses?
Also, have you tried replacing the bulbs with LED's?
Thanks Larry, you are now the official expert on the GT4 lenses. Perhaps George will crown you with a title?
quote:what should I expect to pay for a pair of replacement Carello lenses?
Also, have you tried replacing the bulbs with LED's?
Doug,
P.I. lists their NOS Carello lenses and the kit for $499. I do not know if other vendors sell just lenses alone, or complete sets. I'd try Wilkinson for that.
The eBay vendor that sells the "NEW" lenses that I think are the 'superreflex" Carello reproductions opens at $139 with $24 S/H.
I have thought about the LED replacement bulbs, but have not done them, nor do I know anyone who has. If you replace all the bulbs with LED's, I believe you may run into trouble with your flasher function, as the flasher function is dependent on the amperage draw of the filaments, and the LED's draw very little power. This is worked around by adding a resistor to the circuit to restore the amperage draw.
If you want just a set of Carello lenses, no housings, I have an NOS set, and a set of the "superreflex" reproductions. Contact me at fresnofinches -at- aol.com
Larry
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Thanks Larry, you are now the official expert on the GT4 lenses. Perhaps George will crown you with a title?
Together each of us who participate on the bulletin board combine our experience and talents to make the DTBB the hip place for Pantera information. The more who contribute, the better it gets.
The idea of crowning someone, means the person doing the crowning is superior to the person receiving the crown, that certainly is not the case here on the DTBB. We are all equals.
The only recognition Larry needs from me, is for him to know I appreciate his participation and respect his knowledge. Even when we disagree on something.
Your friend on the DTBB
I have no problem with everyone here being equals George, but I hope the NSA doesn't tap this forum.
I don't think that the Bush administration would be very happy with the prospect that all Americans were equal.
I don't think that the Bush administration would be very happy with the prospect that all Americans were equal.
Pantera Doug,
I fitted LED rear stop/tail lamps to my 73 Sunbeam Rapier.
Not a Pantera, I know, but the wiring is from the same era and quite similar (a few of the components are exactly the same).
They worked extremely well, improved the light output and reduced the current drain through the switches. But you cannot use these for the flashers as they don't draw enough current for the bimetal flasher unit to work.
I fitted LED rear stop/tail lamps to my 73 Sunbeam Rapier.
Not a Pantera, I know, but the wiring is from the same era and quite similar (a few of the components are exactly the same).
They worked extremely well, improved the light output and reduced the current drain through the switches. But you cannot use these for the flashers as they don't draw enough current for the bimetal flasher unit to work.
There's an a resistor that one places in line to make the flashers work. I like the intensaty of the light the LED's give
Me too.
The rear lamps on my Rapier were pretty bad (all the silver was missing from the reflectors) and the LED lamps made a huge improvement as they don't use the reflectors.
I am planning on doing the same thing on my Pantera.
The rear lamps on my Rapier were pretty bad (all the silver was missing from the reflectors) and the LED lamps made a huge improvement as they don't use the reflectors.
I am planning on doing the same thing on my Pantera.
Rapier
do you happen to have a part number for the LED's and where to get them? Price too?
do you happen to have a part number for the LED's and where to get them? Price too?
quote:Originally posted by Rapier:
Pantera Doug,
I fitted LED rear stop/tail lamps to my 73 Sunbeam Rapier.
Not a Pantera, I know, but the wiring is from the same era and quite similar (a few of the components are exactly the same).
They worked extremely well, improved the light output and reduced the current drain through the switches. But you cannot use these for the flashers as they don't draw enough current for the bimetal flasher unit to work.
www.ledtronics.com. Everything is posted there including the resistor.
I just got them off the shelf at my local auto parts place. They were designed as replacements for the standard 12v 21w/5w stop & tail lamps fitted to 80% of british cars in 70s.
I don't remember the make.
There were similar to the ones PanteraDoug has found for you.
(Don't forget I'm the other side of the atlantic...)
I don't remember the make.
There were similar to the ones PanteraDoug has found for you.
(Don't forget I'm the other side of the atlantic...)
I'm easily confused.... 
which part numbers off that site should I order??? For Brake light-for parking light-for reverse light.
Does the parking lights in the rear also fit the front?? And resister number.
Thanks for the trouble!!!!!!!
which part numbers off that site should I order??? For Brake light-for parking light-for reverse light.Does the parking lights in the rear also fit the front?? And resister number.
Thanks for the trouble!!!!!!!
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
www.ledtronics.com. Everything is posted there including the resistor.
The dual filament bulbs that you have in your taillamps are an 1157. The single filament is either a 1056 or a 1057. The single filament is the back-up light.
The LED #'s are AUT 1157, AUT 1057 or AUT 1056.
Open you lights and read the numbers on the bulbs.
It is very simple.
The automotive LED's on this site are the same numbers as the bulbs.
The LED #'s are AUT 1157, AUT 1057 or AUT 1056.
Open you lights and read the numbers on the bulbs.
It is very simple.
The automotive LED's on this site are the same numbers as the bulbs.
Just had to throw this into the pot.
An alternative to buying new Carrelo's at $500 a hit or cheap repros, check out your local breakers yard or contact ur nearest Alfa Romeo club and buy the rear taillight lenses off a Alfa Berlina 1750 or 2000 sedan. ( built frm round 1968 to late 70's. These are Carello / Pantera / Fiat lenses.) ...just like many other parts on the Panters's and of course other Italian exotics....door handles, electric switch gear, - its all, or a lot of it, out of the 'corporate parts bin'....
If the lenses are a bit faded frm age, buy some of the special tiny paint vialls that are used by folk making up thier own " stained - glass windows ".....they have exactely the right colors, red & amber... dead easy. I have just done so myself and they look brand new....
An alternative to buying new Carrelo's at $500 a hit or cheap repros, check out your local breakers yard or contact ur nearest Alfa Romeo club and buy the rear taillight lenses off a Alfa Berlina 1750 or 2000 sedan. ( built frm round 1968 to late 70's. These are Carello / Pantera / Fiat lenses.) ...just like many other parts on the Panters's and of course other Italian exotics....door handles, electric switch gear, - its all, or a lot of it, out of the 'corporate parts bin'....
If the lenses are a bit faded frm age, buy some of the special tiny paint vialls that are used by folk making up thier own " stained - glass windows ".....they have exactely the right colors, red & amber... dead easy. I have just done so myself and they look brand new....
Yes, you are absolutely right Roland, I did get my set off of an Alfa Berlina 1750.- Nice to know that Pantera/De Tomaso didnt 'dip' into the various parts bins as much as others. Thanks for clearing that up.
I have heard, & it does look like Fiat X1/9 vents used on the Longchamps, - and a friend has just finished restoring a Mazerati and has found various parts from Fiat; Doorhandles and switch gear were what he mentioned.....Cheers..
I have heard, & it does look like Fiat X1/9 vents used on the Longchamps, - and a friend has just finished restoring a Mazerati and has found various parts from Fiat; Doorhandles and switch gear were what he mentioned.....Cheers..
FYI - Found this post below when farting around looking for something else showing modifications done:
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/765004...570089803#8570089803
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/765004...570089803#8570089803