Hall Pantera 8 stack Weber intake.

A close up of the intake manifold.

Appears to be Weber 48 IDA carbs. Price is a variable dependent upon condition of intake/ Webers/linkage/alterations/etc/etc...Mark

The carbs are 48ida. The version -1, -3, -4, will be stamped into the mounting flange.

The carbs are all worth a minimum of about $350 each used. "Made in Italy" are more desirable than "Made in Spain".

New the carbs are only "Spain" and are about $550 each.

The only way the used carbs are worth more than that is if they are the early '60s version and you would identify them by their absence of the triangluar auxiliary mounting tab bosses on the side of the carbs.

Yours are not. They are at least early '70s manufacture because they do have those bosses.



The manifold is available new from Hall for $900. There are two versions. The big 4v iron head ports and the smaller square SVO ports.

I can't see what you have. The lighting in the picture is not showing me the details that I need and I cannot see what the intake ports look like since you did not post pictures of them.



The vacuum plumbing and manifold is worth something, about $150, on top of all that as is the linkage and the fuel plumbing. About $150 for each of those.



So presuming everything is in good shape about a minimum of $2750 and about a maximum of $3500. Splitting the difference, from what I see $3100 to $3200 for what you have would be a fair price to pay for that setup.

If I was buying, which I am not, that's what I would offer you, take it or leave it.



Weber carbs are very rarely trashed out. The exception would be if the castings are radically modified such as the fuel bowls like what the Mazda rotary people do to them or if there has been a carb fire and the main castings are damaged or melted.

These carbs are very modular, kick down into components easily and those components are all replaceable relatively simply including the throttle shafts, and are available from Weber.

I used this same set up on my car. Since I have a Ford 400 in my car, the deck height is an inch taller which means the manifolds are further apart. The Hall intake has a great dividing line which makes it easy to cut and use as left bank and right bank.

Nice work. How tall are those stacks?
I figure 6"would be perfect to hide under the roof. Problem is there are only three sizes for those spun aluminum ones. Stock, 5" and 6-1/2".

Not sure, I'll look it up when I get a chance:

I think I located which receipt but I will have to dig it out tonight. I think I got them here:

http://www.carburetion.com/Weber/stacks.asp

Inglese has the wide mouth spun aluminum in stock @ 5". 6-1/2" on special order.

The tall ones only give you about an inch of clearance to the inside of the roof. They fit but they are a tight fit.

For me 6" would be just about right for running just with screens. Filters still won't fit wit them though.

Thanks for the info.

Your set up looks nice. Especially considering all the fabrication you had to do.

My Doug Nash magnesium intake was just like you did. A separate manifold for each side and an aluminum plate in the middle.

I have Yates C3L heads, apparently an inch taller than normal, which also required the split manifold like yours, except I'm running EFI.

I have to admit it is VERY tempting to run my car without the air cleaners. NOTHING looks cooler than open velocity stacks IMO

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:
I used this same set up on my car. Since I have a Ford 400 in my car, the deck height is an inch taller which means the manifolds are further apart. The Hall intake has a great dividing line which makes it easy to cut and use as left bank and right bank.

I ordered 2 horns; I think these are the one's I got. They are listed as 3.5" but I measure 2 5/8" from the base.

The tennis balls are actually oversize balls from the Pet store.

http://www.carburetion.com/Pro...ils.aspx?part=CU6057

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:
I used this same set up on my car. Since I have a Ford 400 in my car, the deck height is an inch taller which means the manifolds are further apart. The Hall intake has a great dividing line which makes it easy to cut and use as left bank and right bank.

Hello Comp2; Due to you utilizing the stock height DeTomaso valve covers, I presume you are not using a rocker arm stud girdle?.

Is your valley plate aluminum?...Mark

Mike I have posted before but if you look on mine I am using a lawn mower recoil spring.

quote:

Originally posted by 1Rocketship:

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:
I used this same set up on my car. Since I have a Ford 400 in my car, the deck height is an inch taller which means the manifolds are further apart. The Hall intake has a great dividing line which makes it easy to cut and use as left bank and right bank.

Hello Comp2; Due to you utilizing the stock height DeTomaso valve covers, I presume you are not using a rocker arm girdle?.

Is your valley plate aluminum?...Mark

No girdle. I specifically wanted a larger cubic inch engine with a lots of tq and limited rpm; no more then 5500. Trying to head off high rpm valve issues.

http://www.tmeyerinc.com/category-s/1888.htm

Yes aluminum vally plate.

It never occurred to me before that I remember but the separate center plate could have been cut narrower to permit it to be used as an access cover into the lifter gallery?

MTS's situation would be a good illustration of why it could be useful.


Stacks are normally measured from the ring to the top. Those are the stock replacement heights. I had a set of those polished.

That was a mistake. They were always full of some kind of slime with oily fingerprints and hand marks on them. I'm going to get the mill finished ones this time?



Pet Shop balls? Those are yellow, big and hairy. I had forgotten about that? Strange?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W-fIn2QZgg

I AM tempted to take the top off and inspect my lifters while my engine is down, while waiting on new rockers.

If I do, you can bet I'll be getting busy with my grinder and cut a big hole in that plate, and make a bolt on cover so I can look inside by simply removing the cover off the center plate.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
It never occurred to me before that I remember but the separate center plate could have been cut narrower to permit it to be used as an access cover into the lifter gallery?

MTS's situation would be a good illustration of why it could be useful.

Pet Shop balls? Those are big and hairy. Strange?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W-fIn2QZgg

Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean about using a lawnmower spring.

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:
Mike I have posted before but if you look on mine I am using a lawn mower recoil spring.

quote:

Originally posted by mike the snake:
I AM tempted to take the top off and inspect my lifters while my engine is down, while waiting on new rockers.

If I do, you can bet I'll be getting busy with my grinder and cut a big hole in that plate, and make a bolt on cover so I can look inside by simply removing the cover off the center plate.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
It never occurred to me before that I remember but the separate center plate could have been cut narrower to permit it to be used as an access cover into the lifter gallery?

MTS's situation would be a good illustration of why it could be useful.

Pet Shop balls? Those are big and hairy. Strange?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W-fIn2QZgg

If that is the case, might I suggest, mark on the plate where the manifold meets it.

Take the plate off and cut it leaving the lines you marked on the plate.

Fit it back in a way that you can seal it to the edges (l left and 1 right) of the intake manifolds with silicone.

You might want to also consider adding two Allen socket head bolts to each end that go through the plate and thread into the edges of the block.

You aren't going to see much through one hole through the plate and there isn't much point in making it into swiss cheese?

This way you can periodically remove the plate to examine and or change the lifters?

It's a lot faster than pulling off the entire intake manifold and disturbing all of the throttle bodies and linkages.

You actually can cut that plate on a table saw with a triple carbide tipped tooth blade very easily...but don't tell anyone I said that ok?

I was thinking I'd just scribe the top plate where the manifold edges are, then measure over enough for socket and bolt holes, and go in a little more from there. Then I could just take an oversize flat plate and have it overlap the areas I left protruding past the manifold sides, drill and tap a few screws to hold the cover in place, and voila!

Then I'd have a rectangle cutout in the top plate, but it would still be all one piece.

What holds that plate in place? Is it just squashed down by the manifold with lots of silicon?

I see a screw at the end, but no bolts actually holding it in place (I assume because usually it's part of the manifold and connected to both sides)

Okay, back to me!
The carbs are all stamped '2J 48IDA 4R'.

Here is a picture of the bottom.... Are they 2V or 4V?

And here is a picture of the 'Made In' stamp on the side, but they are all blank. Anyone know what that means?
I have paperwork saying that the car went to Hall in 1985 and had the GTS conversion done. I'm 99% sure that this setup is from then.

That is one cool setup!

Definately 4V...Mark

OK. I can help ya on this. The carbs are the Spanish ones. The 2J is the date code. Probably November 2012.

The manifold is the small port manifold for the SVO heads. Hall originally modified the 4v iron port manifold to fit the A3 SVO heads. Since those heads are dated 1982, it was a while ago already.

The ports are similar to many aluminum head ports available now such as the CHI heads and this manifold is more desirable than the bigger 4v iron head manifold.

The Italian and Spanish carbs are both Wber carbs but the old timers prefer the Italian ones. They are both just as good. Pars interchange.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
OK. I can help ya on this. The carbs are the Spanish ones. The 2J is the date code. Probably November 2012.

The manifold is the small port manifold for the SVO heads. Hall originally modified the 4v iron port manifold to fit the A3 SVO heads. Since those heads are dated 1982, it was a while ago already.

The ports are similar to many aluminum head ports available now such as the CHI heads and this manifold is more desirable than the bigger 4v iron head manifold.

The Italian and Spanish carbs are both Wber carbs but the old timers prefer the Italian ones. They are both just as good. Pars interchange.

Have to Disagree with Doug. Those Weber carbs are date code stamped 2J, "2"= 1982 & "J" is the 10th letter of the alphabet & the 10th month is October so 2J= October 1982, also in regards to whether the Webers were built in Italy or Spain, since Genuine Weber carburetors were produced in Bologna, Italy up until 1992, when production was transferred to Madrid, Spain, where they continue to be produced today and Weber carbs made in Spain are CLEARLY MARKED!

So using my GENIUS-LIKE deductive POWERS...The date code for the Webers is October 1982(built in Italy) & your intake was machined for A3 SVO Heads from the 1980s...Let's ADD 2+2 & see where it leads us!!!...You can send the envelope of $100.00 bills to...1Rocketship's Early Retirement Fund...Mark

quote:

Originally posted by 1Rocketship:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
OK. I can help ya on this. The carbs are the Spanish ones. The 2J is the date code. Probably November 2012.

The manifold is the small port manifold for the SVO heads. Hall originally modified the 4v iron port manifold to fit the A3 SVO heads. Since those heads are dated 1982, it was a while ago already.

The ports are similar to many aluminum head ports available now such as the CHI heads and this manifold is more desirable than the bigger 4v iron head manifold.

The Italian and Spanish carbs are both Wber carbs but the old timers prefer the Italian ones. They are both just as good. Pars interchange.

Have to Disagree with Doug. Those Weber carbs are date code stamped 2J, "2"= 1982 & "J" is the 10th letter of the alphabet & the 10th month is October so 2J= October 1982, also in regards to whether the Webers were built in Italy or Spain, since Genuine Weber carburetors were produced in Bologna, Italy up until 1992, when production was transferred to Madrid, Spain, where they continue to be produced today.

So using my GENIUS-LIKE deductive POWERS...The date code for the Webers is October 1982(built in Italy) & your intake was machined for A3 SVO Heads from the 1980s...Let's ADD 2+2 & see where it leads us!!!...You can send the envelope of $100.00 bills to...1Rocketship's Early Retirement Fund...Mark

You missed one feature there Sherlock. ALL the Italian carbs are made with studs. The Spanish carbs are made with slot head screws.

Look at the retaining hardware on the velocity stacks. Screws. Answer. Spain.

The Spanish carbs don't start appearing until around 10 years ago. Could be 2002, but unlikely 1992.

J is the tenth month of the year. Answer. October. Comes after September, the ninth month.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by 1Rocketship:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
OK. I can help ya on this. The carbs are the Spanish ones. The 2J is the date code. Probably November 2012.

The manifold is the small port manifold for the SVO heads. Hall originally modified the 4v iron port manifold to fit the A3 SVO heads. Since those heads are dated 1982, it was a while ago already.

The ports are similar to many aluminum head ports available now such as the CHI heads and this manifold is more desirable than the bigger 4v iron head manifold.

The Italian and Spanish carbs are both Wber carbs but the old timers prefer the Italian ones. They are both just as good. Pars interchange.

Have to Disagree with Doug. Those Weber carbs are date code stamped 2J, "2"= 1982 & "J" is the 10th letter of the alphabet & the 10th month is October so 2J= October 1982, also in regards to whether the Webers were built in Italy or Spain, since Genuine Weber carburetors were produced in Bologna, Italy up until 1992, when production was transferred to Madrid, Spain, where they continue to be produced today.

So using my GENIUS-LIKE deductive POWERS...The date code for the Webers is October 1982(built in Italy) & your intake was machined for A3 SVO Heads from the 1980s...Let's ADD 2+2 & see where it leads us!!!...You can send the envelope of $100.00 bills to...1Rocketship's Early Retirement Fund...Mark

You missed one feature there Sherlock. ALL the Italian carbs are made with studs. The Spanish carbs are made with slot head screws.

Look at the retaining hardware on the velocity stacks. Screws. Answer. Spain.

The Spanish carbs don't start appearing until around 10 years ago. Could be 2002, but unlikely 1992.

J is the tenth month of the year. Answer. October. Comes after September, the ninth month.

Ahhhhh...Doc Watson...Why would you ever doubt your mentor???!!

n 1986, Fiat also took control of Weber's competitor Solex, and merged the two into a single company (Raggruppamento Controllo Motore, or the "Engine Management Group"). This was then reorganized as Magneti Marelli Powertrain S.p.A. in 2001.[1] Genuine Weber carburetors were produced in Bologna, Italy up until 1992, when production was transferred to Madrid, Spain, where they continue to be produced today.

ALSO it was you Doc Dim Bulb Watson that confused the 10th month was being NOVEMBER as evidenced by your post copied forthwith ...
PanteraDoug
posted April 03, 2015 04:49 PM Hide Post
OK. I can help ya on this. The carbs are the Spanish ones. The 2J is the date code. Probably November 2012.

quote:

Originally posted by 1Rocketship:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by 1Rocketship:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
OK. I can help ya on this. The carbs are the Spanish ones. The 2J is the date code. Probably November 2012.

The manifold is the small port manifold for the SVO heads. Hall originally modified the 4v iron port manifold to fit the A3 SVO heads. Since those heads are dated 1982, it was a while ago already.

The ports are similar to many aluminum head ports available now such as the CHI heads and this manifold is more desirable than the bigger 4v iron head manifold.

The Italian and Spanish carbs are both Wber carbs but the old timers prefer the Italian ones. They are both just as good. Pars interchange.

Have to Disagree with Doug. Those Weber carbs are date code stamped 2J, "2"= 1982 & "J" is the 10th letter of the alphabet & the 10th month is October so 2J= October 1982, also in regards to whether the Webers were built in Italy or Spain, since Genuine Weber carburetors were produced in Bologna, Italy up until 1992, when production was transferred to Madrid, Spain, where they continue to be produced today.

So using my GENIUS-LIKE deductive POWERS...The date code for the Webers is October 1982(built in Italy) & your intake was machined for A3 SVO Heads from the 1980s...Let's ADD 2+2 & see where it leads us!!!...You can send the envelope of $100.00 bills to...1Rocketship's Early Retirement Fund...Mark

You missed one feature there Sherlock. ALL the Italian carbs are made with studs. The Spanish carbs are made with slot head screws.

Look at the retaining hardware on the velocity stacks. Screws. Answer. Spain.

The Spanish carbs don't start appearing until around 10 years ago. Could be 2002, but unlikely 1992.

J is the tenth month of the year. Answer. October. Comes after September, the ninth month.

Ahhhhh...Doc Watson...Why would you ever doubt your mentor???!!

n 1986, Fiat also took control of Weber's competitor Solex, and merged the two into a single company (Raggruppamento Controllo Motore, or the "Engine Management Group"). This was then reorganized as Magneti Marelli Powertrain S.p.A. in 2001.[1] Genuine Weber carburetors were produced in Bologna, Italy up until 1992, when production was transferred to Madrid, Spain, where they continue to be produced today.

ALSO it was you Doc Dim Bulb Watson that confused the 10th month was being NOVEMBER as evidenced by your post copied forthwith ...
PanteraDoug
posted April 03, 2015 04:49 PM Hide Post
OK. I can help ya on this. The carbs are the Spanish ones. The 2J is the date code. Probably November 2012.

Noverber of 2012? It was a slip. I was thinking about the last time I got laid? Very distracting.

Bottom line, who cares about the date codes on the carbs? I don't.

I know someone who keeps track of them by their serial numbers. He's the only one who cares about that too.

Dr.John Hawks, University of Wisconsin. Did a comprehensive DNA study going back over 5,000 years. There appears to be a mystery species mixed with human DNA sometime within the last 5,000 years. Not human, not animal. Extra terrestrial? Hey I deal with aliens every freakin' day. It's the ones from Uranus that you need to worry about. Anyone care?

Same thing about where these carbs were made?

You guys are awesome!

Well, there is no way that they are 2012 because the engine has been in a crate since 2011 and they were not new (or anywhere close to new) when they came out.

I'd have to agree that 1982 makes a lot of sense. I don't think that Hall makes that manifold anymore.

Any more opinions of what it's worth or what I should ask for it?

quote:

Originally posted by Dr.Oldsmobile:
You guys are awesome!

Well, there is no way that they are 2012 because the engine has been in a crate since 2011 and they were not new (or anywhere close to new) when they came out.

I'd have to agree that 1982 makes a lot of sense. I don't think that Hall makes that manifold anymore.

Any more opinions of what it's worth or what I should ask for it?

Not according to this?
http://hallpantera.com/cgi-bin...ntera-inc&item=22759

The carbs are from a year ending in a 2.

Hello Doc; Please desregaurd any attempts by certain individuals ( Doug) to impart any correct information unless it involves where the local free clinic is located.

After Weber was acquired by Fiat in 1992 ALL Weber carbs were stamped "Made in Spain" to identify & promote the acquisition.

Since your carbs are NOT stamped, it would be HIGHLY unlikely that a Hal Pantera manifold manufactured in the 1980s would be mated to a set of "Unmarked" Weber carbs that were manufactured at the latest date of 1992...TEN YEARS

Please be advised & made aware of the "Doug" & myself involves ourselves in "Good Natured Ribbing" as NO malice is intended!

Since you are Doc Oldsmobile, have you ever owned a W-30 Olds with the RED inner fender wells?!...Mark

As a matter of fact I've owned one for 28 years. My grandfather bought a new 1972 Oldsmobile 442 W-30 (455 4-spd) in August of 72. I bought it from him when I was 15 (1987). I did a half-ass teenager restoration on it and drove it daily until 2004 (Summer and Winter). I tore it apart a few years ago and now it's a work in progress. My Grandfather is still alive. He's now 88. I plan to take him for a ride in it again someday soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr.Oldsmobile:
As a matter of fact I've owned one for 28 years. My grandfather bought a new 1972 Oldsmobile 442 W-30 (455 4-spd) in August of 72. I bought it from him when I was 15 (1987). I did a half-ass teenager restoration on it and drove it daily until 2004 (Summer and Winter). I tore it apart a few years ago and now it's a work in progress. My Grandfather is still alive. He's now 88. I plan to take him for a ride in it again someday soon.

WOW!!!...Very Impressive!!!...As only 659 W30 Coupes were produced in 1972 & even FEWER mated to a 4 speed transmission.

I give you a lot of credit & for showing restraint beyond your years, being just 15 years old & owning a 455CI engine with 410 ft lbs of torque & NOT wrapping it around a tree!!!

I always LIKED the ram air feature, as numerous cars in 1972 featured a ram air/shaker hood option. The 1972 Mustang Mach 1, Pontiac Gto, Trans Am, Ford Torino, Dodge Challenger.

Was the W30 blue with white hood stripes?...Mark

quote:

Originally posted by mike the snake:
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean about using a lawnmower spring.

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:
Mike I have posted before but if you look on mine I am using a lawn mower recoil spring.

I posted some of this some time back. Since the Webers have 8 butterflies on an 8 cyl it needs basically a long spring to hold them down. I retrofitted a lawn mower recoil spring to do just that. You can actually see it in the plate between the Webers in the earlier photos:





http://www.rc-tech.net/cars2/panttransam/web/DSC_0059.AVI

http://www.rc-tech.net/cars2/p...sam/web/DSC_0059.AVI

quote:

Originally posted by comp2:

a pullstart Yo-Yo clockspring throttle bellcrank...

Nice!

Thanks, I think someone working with Webers can take it to the next level.

I made a mistake. The Oldsmobile is a 1971, my Pantera is a 72'.