Mangusta Engine Removal and Rebuild

@mangusta posted:

Mike,

If you have the stock timing pointer and marks, you actually can see them BUTT, ya hafta put the timing light near vertical, and mash your head up against the firewall window and look directly down.......

It can be done!!!

Those new blue reusable gaskets for Holleys work very well!

COOOOOL!!!!!!!  Getting closer!!!

S

Seriously?  I'll have a look, but i didn't see any obvious sightline...  If I can get my old borescope working that might help...   The new roller cam changed my firing order!!!    I was surprised about that...

  My list has a ton of "to do's"...  Which includes shifting the engine over toward the passenger side...   Water pump idler pulley is about 2mm from the firewall padding...  Also have to figure out what is up with my oil pressure gauge...  It's not showing anything at all...  I pulled the gauge and ran a short to the signal terminal and it pegged...  Seems to respond fine...  Also put a VOM on the sensor and it seems fine...  Will jumper the gauge directly to the sensor tomorrow to isolate gauge OR wiring...  I'm hoping it's wiring !!!

If I need to rebuild the carb I'll look for the holley blue seals...  It's a 4150 holley...  So no worries there...l

I haven't pulled the radiator cover yet to look for an air bleeder...   So far I've gotten just under 2 gallons in her...   1 gallon antifreeze & almost 1 gallon distilled water...

I'm having a blast...  (my bank account, not so much)...

I'll post a video of her running once I got mufflers on her and a decent idle... Right now she sounds like a drunken grizzly bear...

I appreciate the help, insight, warnings and patience...

MH

Getting there...

it's alive.  congrats.

YEAA!! Sounds awesome, Mike...

👍👍CONGRATULATIONS ‼️‼️

Yeah, timing is set by ear at this point and I still have to source the radiator hose from the right side tube to the water pump...  Haven't found that one yet, so I slapped the old one back on...  It has a leak !!!  Possibly damaged in the shop or during the pull...  Either way, I need to find a new one...

Headers have to come back off for ceramic  coating...  I switched to the big bore headers from Hall...  Had to cut notches for the plugs in the heads.  The headers wouldn't fit otherwise.

My to-do list is getting smaller...  Front suspension is next, then off to paint & body...

MH

Nice job Mike!!  Must be a major relief!

VAROOOMBAAAA!!!!

Mike,

Hose info to help you out.

I dug this off of page 3 of my "oops I'm doing it again post"  regarding hoses.  Looks like I made two out of one for about $8....probably $16 now...!!!!  Still needed a second unique but easy to find hose as well. Read on...

"Found a Gates / ECR #22185 (O'Reilly or Rock Auto) hose of the proper 1-3/8" diameter to make the "Y-Pipe to the under car pipe" connection!     From this one new hose,  I was able to get one piece of hose that will do the job... and give me a spare to carry in the tool box... for only $8!

I cut this new hose apart, with the RH section as you see in the picture being my primary piece, and the LH section as my spare.  I found an errant slice in the area near where the clamp would go, under the label....but once I cut the hose up I ruined my option of returning it... so for $8 I ordered another and am real fine with hanging it in the rafters until needed!"  (Might still be there????)


My old lower hose is at the top of the picture....but I had no Y-pipe and wrong water pump as I found it....a total mess.

New hoses with proper Y-pipe etc fit MUCH better!!!!!

More cut and paste for "water pump to under car pipe" info from the same post!   (Gates / ECR O'Reilly) #21749- I think this may be the stock lower hose for a 67-69 small block in Mustang /Cougar models.

"Needed to do just a tad of trimming to get things to line up and not bind.

I took one inch off of the lower end. It should be noted that this hose is 1-3/4" at the top and 1-3/8" at the bottom, just what doctor DeTomaso ordered!!!"

Hope these number help you out!

Steve

Wow, that is VERY useful information.  Got a list of belts in that collection of data?  I've tried several sizes and profiles and am solid with the water pump & jackshaft belts up front...  The Alternator belt is the right length, but I think it's too wide, not fully seated in the pulley...  the A/C belt i'm still messing with...   All Gates Green Stripe so far...

Thanks for the part # on the hoses...  That is going into my archives !!!

MH

Mike,

For the alternator you may need to go down to 7/16" width or perhaps even one fraction next smaller.   I don't recall what that particular dimension was....

Otherwise, for AC belt and an Alt belt, here is where my expertise falls......as my car had the alternator mounted on what would normally be the smog pump wing of the bellhousing!!!  SOOOOO, I must defer to the masses to follow up here!

TO make matters less fun, I checked my "alternator pictures" out from various cars, and found at least 3 different rear jackshaft pulleys in use!!!! 2 sheave and three sheave!   I also wonder if I didn't see at some point in time, a belt running the AC pulley which then back fed on a second sheave to the alternator!!!  Talk about "your mileage may vary!"

Since that part of my rebuild had already been figured out during prior engine swaps etc, there was no change in belts this time!

Cheers!
Steve

Mike, for belts, you just have to read the manual That and translate somehow...

Mike, you mention notches in the Hall headers--are those to avoid the spark plugs, or (my experience) instead the air injection nozzles from the smog pump?

More of a LACK of notches...   For the air injection...   Also the #4 & #8 tubes are at a bit of an angle and getting a bolt into the inside holes is a nightmare...  Probably best to put a stud in the heads on those two (or all) and use nuts...

Aside from those issues they seem well made...

MH

...my Hall headers are from the mid 80's and it seems nothing has changed  

Lee, can you read the part #'s for the belts?  I can't find them based on what I THINK it says...  It's a bit fuzzy on my screen...

MH

Mike, I spent a little time yesterday looking for cross-references, the Gates numbers are easier to find (but strangely, I haven't found cross-references against the Pirelli numbers...you'd think with Google, this would be easier (!) Esp, elusive is the Pirelli 261206 belt (for the alternator).

The "AS small pulley" is interesting, I assume this differentiates the large radius drive on the jackshaft side for the Anti-smog pump (and who ever calls this the "Anti-smog...). But I thought thought that was a transition that came later (so strange its in the owners manual, which I assumed was printed once, before such a transition)...

(minutes later; take back my words, how could I imagine there wasn't such a thing as a revision (!) An earlier owners manual had very helpful empty boxes for the user to fill in their answers for the drive belt....and on 2nd to last page, instruction for the oil and grease was just "Oil: winter, summer" and not MOBIL). The photo I copied was from 8ma1134 (still on ebay after ~2 years, I think) --Lee

Sorry, nothing to offer, just that I hope you can solve it.

I (shamefully) run an AutoMeter unit in place of the OEM gauge.  It absolutely TRASHES up the classy vibe of the Veglia dash.

I suppose you could send it to a gauge rebuilder but if the issue lies outside of the gauge, in the cable or the sensor then I suppose that wouldn't help...

Good luck! Great thread to follow. Thx for posting.

Sorry @scifi, I guess I deleted my last post while you were replying to it.   I called the manufacturer and they knew the cause of the issue and gave me the solution, so I deleted the post thinking no one had seen it yet...

For those that didn't see the post, I replaced the points with a Pertronix Ignitor 3 unit...  Runs fine, but the tach was reading about half of what it should be.  I checked their website and they said *if* your tach reads too high to add a 10k 1/2w resistor in the signal wire between the coil and tach.  But nothing about reading too low...   Turns out the resistor is effectively a signal stabilizer and should fix my issue as well...   I should have verification over the weekend...

@scifi do you have your old veglia tach? The fiat 124 spider tach is a veglia and the same internals as the Mangusta tach...  Have you ever been into the Veglia's?  Pretty simple stuff...  5 of our gauges are pretty much all the same, just a different face plate... 

MH

Well, adding the resistor was a no go...  Tach didn't work at all with it inline...   At idle it reads a little low, but the problem seems to be exponential with rpm's...  Idle shows around 600rpm, but 3000rpm reads around 2000 and 4000 reads around 2500rpm.  The manufacturers website also mentioned using a capacitor...  I will call them on monday to see if they think this will help...

Meanwhile, I started on the front suspension .  so far I've found the offset spacers on the drivers side upper control arm heim joint completely shot...  Passenger side is perfect...  This explains some if the odd noises I've noticed in the front end.  Luckily, I do have grease fittings on the upper ball joints...  Not sure if they were original or added...  But happy to see them.

More tear down monday !!!

MH

Mike,

2/19 Edited to correct incorrect memories!   S

I will say, that is the oddest looking bad front a-arm Heim joint affair I have ever seen!!!!   My Heim joints were bad, but NOTHING like what you have........ It just looks like there is too much shaft sticking out for the nut to hold anything together............even if all the proper parts were present????

There a long shaft that passes entirely thru the front shock tower and fastens to both heims??????   Check the other side to see what is whacked there?

It's been so long since I've been in there............ likely one of the first things I ever did......was grease the squeaky LOWER front a-arm bushings......later doing the ball joints after the stock ones self destructed...... almost lied and said that I didn't have a digital camera.....what I DIDN'T HAVE was recollection of these particular pictures which were stuffed in a "misc" labeled folder....DUH!!!

Pics of new LOWER inner bushings from one of the vendors.....really the originals weren't bad apparently!!   The "needle" grease gun tip to grease Unibal heims.

New Unibal joints all lubed and bootied up, ready for new ball joint and installation!

Close up of the reinforced lower a-arms that some of the cars got somewhere in the late 900's or early 1000's???     My car came with one of each due to an accident......and this just happened to be the newer piece!   I modified the other side to have a similar reinforcement job done!   Requires one longer ball joint bolt on each side.....

Plews needle style grease gun fitting for the Unibal heim joints!

Cheers!!!
Steve