Pantera powersteering… why? which and how!

The Support Group:
“EPS anonymous” : my name is Roland and I’m installing a electric Powersteering unit in my Pantera… 😳😳😳🤓😱😱🤔🤢

…. don’t judge me…!!   LOL 😂

I think it would be a great idea! I haven’t found any real information,  aside from what the manufactures provide, of people bolting Powersteering in Panteras..

that was one of the reasons I started this thread! it would’ve been a hell of a lot easier if I would’ve known what I know now! there’s no reason everybody has to go through the whole learning curve!
I definitely recommend buying a super short 90° angle drill! it has to fit with the drill on it in a space of 97 mm! Changing to studs in the front, measuring the distance between steering tube and dashboard before you take the original out…. All that would take a lot of work   ( and guess work) out of it!

Today. I fixed my lower steering tube (big thanks to my 15-year-old daughter, who helped me a lot getting the thing back in),  the brake light switch that was installed on the brake pedal stop and cut the wiring out and re-soldered (once again under the dash but behind the pedals ) it to go to the brake pressure sensor in the front, got rid of a few wires under the dashboard, which made no sense and don’t belong there , found a wire I do not know where it goes to , rerouted the wiring harness for the ignition switch , Ceramic coated my wheels, retightened and all my brake fittings… and the day is not over yet!

It,s hard when I climb out of my sexy Italian-isn car and people expect to see Guccis and get Fruit of the Looms. I feel sort of inadaguite…

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@Ed Harbur posted:

It,s hard when I climb out of my sexy Italian-isn car and people expect to see Guccis and get Fruit of the Looms. I feel sort of inadaguite…

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

It’s a potpourri of flavors…👍👍

Every girl likes Makeup… Little bit of paint and it looks so much prettier!

Just an update and explanation where I am…

I haven’t abandoned this thread but I am going for the heater core… thread “heater core - keeping it cozy “ and for this task the dashboard has to come out! The powersteering unit would be very much in the way for that! I pick up again once it’s finished…

Tomorrow taking center console out and replace the speedo cable and at the same time install the sensor for the power steering! Inside empty…

Of course, far be it from me to make suggestions, but….

I have seen dashboards where they have “connectorized” all the dash, so if they have to remove it in the future…. it’s a snap!

Do you think that’s worth considering?

(I have never removed my dash….  I’m too scared of the “while I’m in here…” syndrome!)

@rocky posted:

Of course, far be it from me to make suggestions, but….

I have seen dashboards where they have “connectorized” all the dash, so if they have to remove it in the future…. it’s a snap!

Do you think that’s worth considering?

(I have never removed my dash….  I’m too scared of the “while I’m in here…” syndrome!)

The factory wiring is like that mostly…

the things that made it very interesting are the modifications done by previous experts!!! Crisscross jungle.. cut cut cut cut and I figure it out and do it correctly!

you have multi plugs from the factory for

turn-signal switch

speedo

tach

gauges (I think I had someone adding wires that didn’t plug

emergency flasher

didn’t see multi plug for

wiper switch

& what’s the switch next to it??

the 2 dash panel lights

blower motor

the biggest biatch was the heater controller - that guy made me angry.. its sandwiched onto the center console, 2 7mm nuts and some grove hook thing on the right side

otherwise not bad… a few identical spacer, 3 I think spacing the dash from the back!

Start taking speedo, and Tach out little flash light and off you go…

Damn, I still got a lot of cleaning to do

@rocky posted:

Of course, far be it from me to make suggestions, but….

I have seen dashboards where they have “connectorized” all the dash, so if they have to remove it in the future…. it’s a snap!

Do you think that’s worth considering?

(I have never removed my dash….  I’m too scared of the “while I’m in here…” syndrome!)

For the number of times you're going to remove the dash, it's probably not worth the time and effort to put everything on quick-connects. I do think it's a good idea to do it to the gauge panel because you are much more likely to be removing that from time to time. In order to do it, you must replace the ammeter with a voltmeter, which isn't a bad idea anyway.

@davidnunn posted:

For the number of times you're going to remove the dash, it's probably not worth the time and effort to put everything on quick-connects. I do think it's a good idea to do it to the gauge panel because you are much more likely to be removing that from time to time. In order to do it, you must replace the ammeter with a voltmeter, which isn't a bad idea anyway.

Agree!! The majority does have multiplugs  anyway! That gauge panel is a pain!

Getting ready to bolt the Powersteering in for the last time ( recovered dash thread : “interiors are like underwear…”)

Almost done…

notice how high the electric motor is

I need to point out that the mounting of the steering column is MEGA rigged!!

I contribute that to the @davidnunn upgrade with a tube welded in on the rear mounting bracket!!! There is zero give in any way!!! I put my weight on it in every direction.. it is absolutely solid!
The nut to hold the thru bolt (110mm) needed to be kissed with the grinder (no room for washer)  to make it thinner to fit! Zoom in to see the perfect fit of bracket and motor…  you see the thin light hairline of a gap..
Loctite on the nut!!

Plastic cover fits … bad pic🤪

Even your dashboard is clean underneath! Nice work!

@rocky posted:

Even your dashboard is clean underneath! Nice work!

Wasn’t when I started… couldn’t even tell wire colors…🧹🧼🧽🪣

It’s been a little while, but today I hooked up the Powersteering for the first time after I figured out the problems in my electric wiring!
I choose to use the speed sensor that mountains between the speedometer and the speed cable. (there is a second option that comes in the Kit Which touches to the 90° angle drive on the transmission and you run the wire all the way forward to the dashboard! I was not very happy with running the wire right over the driveshaft within a quarter of an inch, it attaches to the 90° angle drive on the transmission and you run the wire all the way forward to the dashboard! I was not very happy with running the wire right over there driveshaft within a quarter of an inch of it) From this on the speedo Mounted speed sensor comes one white plug that attaches to a short wiring harness. On this Wiring harness Is a plug that bolts into the control unit that’s under the power steering motor, red cable for a battery plus, a thin, red cable for ignition plus, a black cable bolt onto ground and a little black box with a tab on it.
I also connected the Battery plus wire For the posting to the wire that runs to the ignition, connected the ground cable to the right Bolt, who holds the steering shaft to the dashboard, and also attached the small box with a microchip in it (Very unqualified guess) By Drilling a hole on their steering column bracket and bolted it on! Only one wire missing now..
just sitting in the shop… No engine running turning the Steering wheel… And it was heavy, uncomfortably heavy to me and then I connected the last wire 15… Ignition +
And it took about one and a half seconds and you hear the click..  turning the steering wheel like you have 155’s on the front No sound to be heard from the power steering no humming, no  buzzing no anything…

very very interesting!

It’s not like Powersteering I am used to, which are a different approach to servo Powersteering. This feels like it just got easier to turn not taking all the workload off. Me just makes it acceptable, very acceptable! If you take the new bronco or a Dodge Durango r/t or Hummer H2, those are one finger turning steering wheels not being in motion this is NOT a one finger turning Steering wheel! It’s not overpowering at all it just feels normal! Obviously, I have to say something good about it because i spent quite a bit of money on it but… Believe me, if I would’ve fucked up buying something expensive and it’s not any good I would tell you!

pictures still to come..

it’s been a good day 🙂

(everyone in the shop tried it and it did bring out the “Kramer face”)

Can’t wait to get back to work!!!!

this got me majorly motivated

@panteradoug posted:

I don't see any negative issues with power steering in the Pantera. They are all just positives. If you can swing it, do it. It helps tame the beast.

I haven't driven my Pantera with the SACC power steering, but will be in a few days. One question that I have is how hard will it be to steer the car if the power assist unit loses power or fails? I am sure that it will be possible because a lot of new cars have electric power steering.

@jffr posted:

I haven't driven my Pantera with the SACC power steering, but will be in a few days. One question that I have is how hard will it be to steer the car if the power assist unit loses power or fails? I am sure that it will be possible because a lot of new cars have electric power steering.

It will just feel like it did before you put the PS in.

I opted for Bruno's automatic "communications satellite" device. It adjusts the boost automatically determined by the vehicle speed. That's what the satellite is needed for. There is at least one in orbit for everyplace on the planet sans Antarctica. Works well.

The only criticism I hear is from those who didn't invent this first? Those guys can get really nasty at times.

I realize that sometimes my socks don't match but there is a logical reason for that. It apparently escapes them?  They don't need to point that out to me. I already knew that. I like to solve problems simply.

I advise putting in the 100amp alternator though. The PS motor takes a lot of power even though it is such a little motor.

@jffr posted:

I haven't driven my Pantera with the SACC power steering, but will be in a few days. One question that I have is how hard will it be to steer the car if the power assist unit loses power or fails? I am sure that it will be possible because a lot of new cars have electric power steering.

you already have it installed?? If so - that’s how it feels - ignition off… wheels on the ground - not moving!

once you drive things are changing.. does your PS decrease assistance?

The drag of the EZ system is like what a well greased bearing feels like when you turn it.. I did try that when it was still out…

installed you can’t detect an increase in effort when not powered up!

@panteradoug posted:

It will just feel like it did before you put the PS in.

I opted for Bruno's automatic "communications satellite" device. It adjusts the boost automatically determined by the vehicle speed. That's what the satellite is needed for. There is at least one in orbit for everyplace on the planet sans Antarctica. Works well.i advise putting in the 100amp alternator though. The PS motor takes a lot of power even though it is such a little motor.

I did do the alternator upgrade 👍

In some tunnels in Switzerland or Italy I do loose the satellite (GPS goes offline) but how often do you parallel park in a tunnel 🤪… - parking garages I don’t know..

my main reason for opting for this system was the small motor and the angle the motor sits in the system.. it points upwards maybe 11 o’clock.. you don’t even see it and it doesn’t interfere with the legroom on the left side!

the bottom of the “Brain-Box” I pretty much flush with the steering column cover..

I just did my first test drive with the SACC electric power steering unit and I am impressed! It wasn't the easiest project that I have ever done on the Pantera, but it was well worth the expense and effort.

@jffr posted:

I just did my first test drive with the SACC electric power steering unit and I am impressed! It wasn't the easiest project that I have ever done on the Pantera, but it was well worth the expense and effort.

Congratulations !
That is great to hear!! Nothing to do with “wimpy” - it has to do with making something more enjoyable! And yes, it is quite some work and quite some expense but so worth it!

@LeMans850i posted:

Congratulations !
That is great to hear!! Nothing to do with “wimpy” - it has to do with making something more enjoyable! And yes, it is quite some work and quite some expense but so worth it!

Thanks, but due to a recent shoulder replacement, this power steering unit made driving the Pantera so much easier. What also helped me to go with power steering was a professional race car driver and driving instructor at the Inde Motorsport Ranch. He really liked driving the Pantera, but wasn't thrilled by how hard it was to steer at very low speeds. I plan on going back to that track before the September Pantera Prowl event there and doing some testing.

It is an absolute joy…. People tried my car and were amazed.. what a difference on my car between power steering on and off. It is absolutely stunning… So much easier to maneuver

I really encouraged to go that route. It makes the car so much more Enjoyable.

And with the system I  used, you cannot even tell it’s there… Nothing protrudes out in a weird way..

If you get hooked on club racing or just want quicker steering, there is supposedly an optional pinion gear for the stock Pantera steering assembly that bolts in and quickens it notably but is uncomfortably heavy for everyone. I believe that pinion was used in the GR-4/GT-4 racer steering boxes. But with supplemental power steering, the effort should be tolerable even combined with wide tires and the near-mandatory extra front caster.

We 'survivors' are all getting older- pay no attention to the scoffers.  Someday their physical bodies will be in our same condition.

It is difficult to explain exactly all of the positive changes that the EPS system makes. I personally think that it is a very worthwhile addition to make.

The variable boost control is from Bruno in Portugal. It really is a very clever addition. Probably in fact genius.

The manual control, potentiometer (turn knob) is also from Bruno for that matter.

You do not NEED the automatic version per se, but it just makes the EPS that much better and that much more sophisticated. It's worth the extra cost.

If you already have an EPS installed with the manual control, you can replace it with the automatic version easily. It is just a plug in.

My initial concern with the installation of any EPS, was the degree of cutting needed on the Pantera, and the loss of foot room. As it turns out, neither is an issue although It does depend on which EPS unit, the system that you are going to use is based upon.

Mine is based on the Toyota Yaris, but not just anyone. A right hand drive version is what it is. That locates the motor in just the correct orientation to avoid the Pantera's electrical wiring and controls on the right side of the steering column.

The left hand drive Yaris motor would be the mirror image, but exactly reversed and would be a  "no can do" in a Pantera without major relocation of Pantera harness components.

In fact, it fits the Pantera so well it suspiciously appears as though it was designed for the Pantera.

Heck. There are "stories" of the US being in possession of crashed "Alien" space vehicles and "reverse engineering", i.e., stealing that technology. So if they can do it, why can't we do it with Toyota?

The power of the Yaris motor is also well matched to the size of the Pantera, so that it is not too powerful for the Panera. Some of the US based motors are simply because they are intended for much larger and heavier vehicles.

Furthermore, Bruno's controllers are based upon the Toyota EPS system since as it turns out, Bruno is the original designer of it for Toyota.

So to all of you who are reading this who don't really understand any of what I am saying because it is too technical and over your heads, bottom line is, you will not be disappointed in having an EPS system in your Pantera and it will be especially effective if you have gone to the Group4/GT5 10" wide wheels in the front, since it will virtually eliminate all the existing steering wheel chatter that you have that is really caused by bad, non correctable front steering geometry on the wide fender cars.

The Pantera accepts the EPS exceptionally well and for sure would have been original equipment in the car when it was new, if it existed then. With the variable boost control module, the car has EXACTLY the right feel at ALL speeds.

I personally would caution all about using a "fast steering gear" with EPS since it may make the car too responsive for an average driver and the plain fact that with EPS, you simply will not need it.

This is a million dollars or more's worth of development technology that you are getting for what turns out to be a very reasonable price. The "how to" is being shared with you for free.

If you get one, buy one, or make one, you cannot go wrong but be warned, the foot box is tight under there and you cannot drive the car wearing snow skis. You must take those off. Just so you should know. Don't say that I didn't warn you!

Are the units on this Ebay.co.uk page compatible, they are incredibly cheap
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.h...eering&_osacat=0

Do you know what model year this fits?

There is also this speed control kit
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285244796529

That makes a set under $200!

I don't think that the model year matters. The motors are the same as I recall?Go to Bruno's web page. He will list the years that his controllers fit.

The Yaris column you throw away. You just use the motor and adapt it to your Pantera steering column.

If you can find a Capri steering column there on UK Ebay, you can use that and save your original in case you don't like the EPS but I think you will LOVE it.

Those controllers are the ones being sold in the kits. Those controllers are from Bruno. He makes them.  He's very easy to work with and very easy to contact but the modification of the steering column is up to you. It is very high quality stuff he makes. Maybe NASA quality?

In the case of the complete Pantera kits being sold, the steering shaft is already done for you and you just swap the parts in.

Considering what I have seen with your engineering and fabricating ability I think it will just be a fun project for you. For others it might just be past their abilities and too challenging? For them they would be best off to deal with SAC Restorations. For what they are charging in "assembling a bolt in kit" for you is more then reasonable. They've done almost all of the work for you.

The most difficult component to come up with now is the Capri steering column but they do come up on the UK Ebay on occasion. If you find one, that needs to be shortened anyway even if you were using it to replace exactly your manual Pantera steering column, so finding one works out well.

It is also the most expensive part to find once you do.

For the sake of discussion, Wilkinson sells new Pantera steering columns but they are pretty expensive.

Essentially what you are doing is shortening the Pantera steering column and splicing in the motor, fabricating a support bracket and wiring the motor and controller. You do not need to be NASA to do this but it is on the side of advanced "Hot Rodding".

It is a popular modification for American street rodders but not with the Yaris unit. Most use a GM unit which is too big to use in a Pantera but the street rodders are using Bruno's controllers also. He's the Man on that part.

It is true that you can easily find Ford Capri steering columns on Ebay.co.uk at +/- 100$; do you know if the MK I, MK II or MK III version is important for the part you get?

It is very interesting, I think it will be my next project.

@rene4406 posted:

It is true that you can easily find Ford Capri steering columns on Ebay.co.uk at +/- 100$; do you know if the MK I, MK II or MK III version is important for the part you get?

It is very interesting, I think it will be my next project.

What is in the Pantera is what the Brits are calling Mark II's.

Don't worry about buying too many Capri steering columns. You probably will be able to sell the extras for more then you paid.

When you get the Capri and the Pantera columns side to side, you will see that the Pantera is a modification of the Capri. For the Pantera, it is shortened and a bracket added for mounting the directional signal.

The original weld where they shortened the shaft is a bit crude. Even my welding is better then that.

When I spliced everything in, I did weld it but didn't rely on just that. I used a coupling and a 10-32 aircraft hex through bolt and nut for extra measure.

I didn't want the steering wheel coming off in my hands while just driving down the road. That would be the wrong kind of a "rush".

I like your opinion of the Yaris set up. Do you have a link for Bruno,s web page?

I think it's that:

https://www.servtronic.com/col...g-controller-box-kit

It is amazing to me how the Pantera is so adaptable to being modernized. Adding EPS is just one example. Updating the electronics another.

The only other car with roots this old that I can think of that is this adaptable is the  Porsche 911? Maybe the Pantera has that beat?

I think that it is just a tribute to how good the original concept and execution is?

Doug, maybe its just me, but I find that Porsches are an excellent source of parts for the contemporary Pantera....

@bosswrench posted:

Doug, maybe its just me, but I find that Porsches are an excellent source of parts for the contemporary Pantera....

I like Porsche. I can see a Turbo 911 as my street car. I don't know how to put roof racks on it to carry my lumber and ladders though?

I don't think I can afford the tires especially needing new ones every 2,500 miles?

Then what kind of transmission? Stick or thumb shifts? Life is too complicated?

I traded a 911 Turbo for my Pantera.  It had 500 factory hp, incredible suspension and brakes. It was so highly developed that the driving experience was too easy. The Pantera experience is raw and I love it!

@Rob Fridenberg posted:

I traded a 911 Turbo for my Pantera.  It had 500 factory hp, incredible suspension and brakes. It was so highly developed that the driving experience was too easy. The Pantera experience is raw and I love it!

I test drove one last year. The dealer wouldn't let me drive a stick so it was the thumb flipper thing.

It reminded me of a video game with a kind of lack of reality that I am used to?

Neanderthals die hard. Even in Italy.