spark timing

That could be someone's "Static Timing Mark".

I don't know what year your car is, or the configuration of the motor, but....

From a good friend of mine.....

quote:

The '71 engines are "different" from the '72 and later. '71 has quench chambers, 11:1 C/R (advertised), and a different camshaft. They run 6* initial advance and 800 rpm idle speed.

In '72, they had open chamber heads, 8.8:1 C/R (advertised), and a "hotter" camshaft. That cam was an attempt to regain some of the HP that was lost due to the change in combustion chamber design and the huge drop in C/R. Those engines run 16* initial advance and 1,000 rpm idle speed.

From the same source..... I won't say his name, but his initials are jb1490...



Rocky

The mark makes it easier to visualize & adjust the ignition timing for static/initial timing of 6 degrees BTDC when you're using a timing light to set the distributor. That was the timing for the Australian 351C, and may be the timing De Tomaso used for the 351W engines too. Those were the engines installed in the GT5-S. 6 degrees BTDC should be used with a distributor set-up to use the advance plate marked 15L.

The ignition settings of the factory engines have nothing to do with the engines compression ratio or the camshaft. Its a setting based on tailpipe emissions. All 351 Clevelands can use more initial advance than what the factory specified. I've set-up 1973-1974 Q code motors for 20° initial advance and more. The 351C LIKES lots of advance at idle. The real limitation is the effort required to crank-over the engine when it is hot. The higher the compression ratio, the harder it is to crank the engine when it is hot. I've set engines for optimum advance at idle only to find afterwards they wouldn't crank-start. DOH

As the engine's static advance is increased you have to close the carburetor butterflies more to lower the idle speed back to the proper rpm. This lessens the engine's propensity to run-on after the key is turned off. The intake manifold vacuum increases, thus the fuel/air mixture at idle becomes richer. Next you have to screw-in the idle jets to optimize them again. The idle improves. The engine's low rpm drivability, torque and throttle response improve. The engine feels peppier.

The best/classic ignition calibration for a 351C having OEM iron heads & flat top pistons is:

16° to 18° initial advance
20° centrifugal advance, all in by about 2800 rpm.
This equals 36° to 38° total advance
10° vacuum advance, connected to ported vacuum.
Advance at idle shall be 16° to 18° due to the initial advance setting, there is no vacuum advance at idle with ported vacuum.

This requires setting-up the Ford distributor to use the 10L centrifugal advance plate.

In general, even a high compression engine can be cranked-over when it is hot if the initial ignition advance is limited to 16° to 18° BTDC. That's why 16° to 18° initial plus 20° centrifugal is the "classic Ford" timing curve.

At the bottom of the page is a pictorial aid for timing the ignition based on which advance plate is being employed in the distributor. All of these settings provide 36° advance at WOT (WFO). Three of them provide 16° advance at idle.

If you have questions I'll be glad to try and answer them.

Thanks George !
I have a Unilite 3756701 distributor without vac equipment.
Will take my timing light and check ...

sorry , i'm wrong... on my engine it is paint marked the 0° ! had it confused not seeing TC and forgotten the 10° marking after TC... oeps. In fact i did see it by taken a picture...

The 351c likes the high initial advance. 16. You can run that with a Mallory without the vacuum advance.

The vacuum advance is for part throttle economy.

With todays pump fuels even all in by 2800 might make the engine ping? Maybe yes. Maybe no.

The engine itself will really come alive all in by something like 22 or 2300 but no way you can run it. It will detonate pretty badly.

Just for comparison if you were racing you would want a faster curve all in by 2,000 to 2,200 rpm.

Right there is why you would need 106 racing gas.

The Cleveland really shows it's potential under those conditions but on the street you need to compromise for pump gas.

Even the ported vacuum set up can give too much part throttle advance.

You have to experiment with it and with the gas you are going to regularly use.

I like the high initial and the 13L set up with the stiff advance springs. It works best for me. Seems a little contradictory I know, but does exhibit any issues at WOT even with that much total advance. I'm sure it has to do with my specific combination which is not typical at all of an iron Cleveland.

I do have the vinyl sleeve on the advance arm. That does take out a couple of degrees of total advance right there.

I'm running my 302 based 347 there also. Virtually the identical set up. No issues so far. Well almost identical. About 12 degrees initial on that one. Otherwise it idles too high.



I don't have any port vacuum to tap into with IDA carbs. Even getting manifold vacuum with them is a big deal and does have issues.

You are creating a small vacuum leak in order to get it on all 8 cylinders and the engine can be touchy on whether it likes, dislikes or tolerates that.

Race setups with IR manifolds are not going to be set up for intake manifold monitoring. They are run mostly a WOT anyway. The vacuum gauge at idle would just be used for diagnostic reasons of the engines state of health.

measure 26° at idle , 800 revs
going to 36° at 3300 revs
and with 5000 revs i measure 38°

i don't daire to go 6000 ??
wondering if it is going up to 40° ?

Experience is that the car runs strong up to 5500 revs and somewhat dys around there...
Ignition ? fuel starvation ? or can it simply be the cam design ?

according my documentation with the car i may expect the cam is a Crane Cams 133132, grind #278 H10.

http://www.cranecams.com/produ...oduct_detail&p=23841

Barry,

That first pic that you posted is from my '71, #1490. 6° was the "factory" setting, and that is what I have used for the last 128k miles on my never rebuilt original 351C. At the time that I placed the yellow mark on 6°, I did not own a dial-back timing light.

Rocky's posting of the three emissions placards is my pic also. If you look at the bottom right of those three placards, you will see a year to which the vehicle emissions comply.

The first two placards show 1971, but with two different initial timing settings, 6° and 10°. The 6° is from my '71 (build date 5/71), and the 10° is from a late '71 with a build date of 10/71. From what I have observed, the 6° was changed to 10° late in the '71 "production" year.

Also note that the distributor point dwell increased from 29°-24° to 34°, which indicates that the distributor was changed to dual points instead of the (earlier) single points distributor. This was still in the '71 "production" year.

The third (bottom) placard is for 1972, and shows 16°. The 1972 cars had the compression ratio lowered to 8.8:1 with open chamber heads, and the cam specs were changed.

As George pointed out, those initial timing settings were for tailpipe emissions, and not (necessarily) for performance.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Belgiumbarry:
measure 26° at idle , 800 revs
going to 36° at 3300 revs
and with 5000 revs i measure 38°

i don't daire to go 6000 ??
wondering if it is going up to 40° ?

Experience is that the car runs strong up to 5500 revs and somewhat dys around there...
Ignition ? fuel starvation ? or can it simply be the cam design ?

according my documentation with the car i may expect the cam is a Crane Cams 133132, grind #278 H10.

http://www.cranecams.com/produ...oduct_detail&p=23841

Is that a misprint of 26 degrees at idle?

That cam is a little hotter than a stock 72-4 CJ cam but not by much.

5500 can be the top rpm for a few reasons but it really should go into the mid 6000's.

Reasons being: timing is wrong. point setting is wrong. valve springs are wrong. choke isn't opening all the way. air cleaner needs changing. engine needs rebuild.

This business of the the timing ring slipping on the balancer is pretty common. Your car is old enough for it to be an issue.

As I recall, my stock cj was running out of breath somewhere above 5500. Maybe 5700?

I never played with the jetting on that carb. It was much easier to swap it and the intake manifold out to an Edelbrock and a 3300 Holley.

Even at that, 6000 was all I expected out of the engine.

The total advance is going to be the initial plus what the distributor mechanical advance is limited to.

If the 10L can be seen through the window then the total is 20 degrees and if it's 13L then 26 total.

16 degrees (+/-) makes the engine more responsive off of idle than 10 degrees does.

Getting a Cleveland through the emissions test is a bear. I haven't had to do it in a long time but I think the timing had to be set to about 0 and the rpm as low as you could get it without the engine stalling.

With that setting the engine would sound like a diesel and you had to push the car in and out of the test bay.

The Pantera was extra tough for one reason. It does not have an air pump. It was considered an import and import had an exemption from needing to be equipped with the pump BUT they still had to pass.

On most US engines in my opinion it is impossible or almost impossible to pass without the pump which lowers the numbers just enough.

These cars were so difficult to get through that there were several shops in Connecticut that would charge you $3500 to get the car through.

Thanks ! no mistake, 26° at idle !....and only 10° upp ( 36 total ) at around 3300 revs , and a total of 38 at 5000.
Engine starts perfect , even hot . So no indication of to much advance....Idles perfect at 800 revs.
Somebody must have setup the Unilite distributor in this way.. ?
Don't think it is a timing ring issue, as i have only + 10° advance between idle and 3300... ?

is TDC marked on the flywheel ?

I'm no expert but if the vacuum advance is connected to manifold instead of ported it would show higher timing at idle than the static setpoint. No?

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by T.Solo:
I'm no expert but if the vacuume advance is connected to manifold instead of ported it would show higher timing at idle than the static setpoint. No?

Steve

That's correct, however as soon as you crack the throttle open it will drop back 20 odd degrees until engine vacuum returns. Can be handy if you have a big cam and a automatic trans.

quote:

Originally posted by jb1490:

... 10° is from a late '71 with a build date of 10/71. From what I have observed, the 6° was changed to 10° late in the '71 "production" year ...

... increased from 29°-24° to 34°, which indicates that the distributor was changed to dual points instead of the (earlier) single points distributor ...

John & all. You may find this interesting. As I remember it, the M-code engines were all specified to have 6° distributor advance. As was the 1971 Q-code engine (Cobra Jet). The 1972 - 1973 Q-code engines were all specified to have 16° distributor advance, except for those installed in Cougars (they were 6°). And the 1974 Q-code was specified to have 20° distributor advance. It was the R-code engines, the 1971 Boss 351 and the 1972 351 HO, which were specified to have 10° distributor advance. I've been told by a few owners over the years that their Pantera had been factory equipped with an R-code engine. This seems to corroborate those claims. John, any chance that late 1971 Pantera has (or had) a solid tappet engine in it?

All of the Q-code engines installed in Panteras (and R-code too) should have dual point distributors. Out in the Mustang/Torino world its a little more hit and miss, but in general the Q-code engines mated to manual transmission had dual point distributors, those mated to automatics had single point distributors, but this was a little more unpredictable (and seldom reflected in tune-up manuals either).

I know this goes against the grain of some folks, but the M-code versions of the 351C 4V were low-buck entry level performance motors. They had the same crankshaft damper as the 2V engine, single point distributors like the 2V engine, they really weren't specified to rev beyond about 5000 rpm. The Q-code versions had a heavier crankshaft damper, dual point distributors, bigger carburetor. They were top-of-the-line performance motors in their era, and were meant to rev to about 6000 rpm.

quote:

Originally posted by Belgiumbarry:
Thanks ! no mistake, 26° at idle !....and only 10° upp ( 36 total ) at around 3300 revs , and a total of 38 at 5000.
Engine starts perfect , even hot . So no indication of to much advance....Idles perfect at 800 revs.
Somebody must have setup the Unilite distributor in this way.. ?
Don't think it is a timing ring issue, as i have only + 10° advance between idle and 3300... ?

You have a broken distributor. It may be just a disconnected advance spring, but it could be stretched out advanced springs, but the thing is broken. It is one explanation of why the car won't rev past 5500.

I had a similar scenario with an Accell distributor. In my case it was just the springs were stretched out to the maximum.

That was my first experience with Aceell crap. It was the last one too.

The next was a Mallory. Had problems with the advance curve with it. The problem was it wouldn't hold it.

I think you should just go the Ford Duraspark. That one I have not broken yet and Heaven knows that I sure have tried.

George likes the Duraspark I but either one works well.

quote:

John, any chance that late 1971 Pantera has (or had) a solid tappet engine in it?

George,

Don't know, but I will see if I can find out.

John

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by Belgiumbarry:
Thanks ! no mistake, 26° at idle !....and only 10° upp ( 36 total ) at around 3300 revs , and a total of 38 at 5000.
Engine starts perfect , even hot . So no indication of to much advance....Idles perfect at 800 revs.
Somebody must have setup the Unilite distributor in this way.. ?
Don't think it is a timing ring issue, as i have only + 10° advance between idle and 3300... ?

You have a broken distributor. It may be just a disconnected advance spring, but it could be stretched out advanced springs, but the thing is broken. It is one explanation of why the car won't rev past 5500.

I had a similar scenario with an Accell distributor. In my case it was just the springs were stretched out to the maximum.

That was my first experience with Aceell crap. It was the last one too.

The next was a Mallory. Had problems with the advance curve with it. The problem was it wouldn't hold it.

I think you should just go the Ford Duraspark. That one I have not broken yet and Heaven knows that I sure have tried.

George likes the Duraspark I but either one works well.

OK, i will have a look inside... WRONG CAR to have a bad distributor

This is one time when a Chevy would be ideal?

The mechanical advance is not returning to rest inside the distributor.

Weak, disconnected or stretched out advance springs will do that. It is very common in aftermarket distributors because they install light tension springs in them new, unlike the Ford distributors which have much heavier springs.

By contrast, Ford distributors would be all in around 5,000 rpm instead of 2,500 rpm, so the tension on those springs is about double what the aftermarket supplies.

My Mallory distributor as well as my Accell had what I would call "drag race" advance springs in them. That's the way they came new.

I went through this issue here when we lost leaded 103 octane gas in the pumps around 1975.

The Ford unit can be tuned to come all in 2500 to 2800 using one heavy spring and one light spring but the issue really is the quality of the metal used in the springs.

Ford's are very high durability while aftermarket sources them from "offshore". That target keeps moving. I suppose it's so that you can't use a killer satellite and zap them with a laser from space?

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
This is one time when a Chevy would be ideal?
......................

whatever with engine in front
now a walk at the sea with the nice weather for the "moment" , have a look this evening....

Easy to check the springs in the dizzy. Pull the cap and grab the rotor and twist it. You will feel it smoothly load up against spring pressure, and twist around about three quarter of an inch. With no slop back and forth. If you have another car that has a dizzy and runs well, feel that and compare it to yours. That will give you a good idea of what it should feel like. Quick and easy.

Yes, got it out and indeed , that mechanism doesn't rotate smooth, either hard and uneven.
Springs are intact .
There's alot of free play before spring tension comes in and than only a bit under tension up till the centrifugal weights hit the preset max. Explains why i only had 10° up .So we set 36° , and give us 26° at idle.
Going to shop to compare mine with a new one.
I do not see clear what's wrong ?

It could be as Doug says that the springs are stretched/and or disconnected. It could just need the shaft lubricated which is a common fault. Either way you need to crack it open and take a look see. Mechanical advance is pretty simple so the problem will be obvious once you take a look.

quote:

Originally posted by Belgiumbarry:
Yes, got it out and indeed , that mechanism doesn't rotate smooth, either hard and uneven.
Springs are intact .
There's alot of free play before spring tension comes in and than only a bit under tension up till the centrifugal weights hit the preset max. Explains why i only had 10° up .So we set 36° , and give us 26° at idle.
Going to shop to compare mine with a new one.
I do not see clear what's wrong ?

Look at the tabs where the springs attach to hub. The springs should be mounted to little arms.

You should be able to bend those enough to take the slack out of the advance springs.

The concern for me is why would they already be bent so much now? The most likely answer is that the springs are stretched.

You may not be interpreting what you are seeing as the springs being stretched because you have nothing else to compare them to.

The tension arms that they connect to can not possibly be that thin and weak.

The simple fix is to buy new distributor springs from Summit. They come in a kit form. You do not want to use the thin wire, low tension springs.

Those are the ones that stretch out. You also need to bend the arms in the distributor so that there is a slight tension on the spring to start off with.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MSD-84...em2a3872f405&vxp=mtr

This isn't about me or my issues but you are experiencing exactly the problems I had with both the Accell and the Mallory Unilight distributors that I tried.

yes, the mechanism is very simple but i can hardly rotate the plate by hand. I see alot of tolerance in the weights rotation pins , even the small ( delrin, teflon ? ) bushings are still there.Instead of pushing them outwards i see them first going sideways which is the tolerance they have ....

Ofcourse the mechanisme is ment to work the other way , it are the weights who push the plate with revs ....but i sure remember me from other distributors that one could rotate it easely against the springs pressure till stop.
Not mine here.
Trying to find a new one... shop hasn't it in stock , takes a week...

At least you found the issue.

Make sure that you check the new distributor before you put it in.

You will at least want to know how it was set up new.

I have found distributors where the spring length is too long new. It's like they put in the wrong springs.

You want the limiting tab to be against the wall of the travel slot and be able to travel the entire length of the slot. That is the mechanism that controls the entire amount of mechanical advance the distributor delivers.

The springs control the rate of advance. If the springs are not the right length then they counter act that mechanism.

new one orderd in our "speedshop" , a garage specialised in US cars , they have deliverys every week ... i asked 20° so to set idle 16 , max 36 at around 3000 revs.

Think somewhere in the US somebody is making my package

Thanks to everybody for the help , glad to be a member !

Happy to have helped in some small way.

Glad it worked out and now you know how a dizzy works.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraWanabe:
Glad it worked out and now you know how a dizzy works.

yes, searching a bit i've seen for the first time you guys call it dizzy

We call it "delco"

got the new dizzy today and installed.Perfect , 14 ° idle, 36 at 3300 revs. So i could go 16/38 ??

The new one has a different advance mechanic and the max is to be installed with some plastic keys marked the wanted ° .There was no kit keys/springs included so i kept the fabricators choice.My old one hasn't that , the max to be installed with the plate out of the distributor.
So Mallory has improved it in the years

Installing was not a direct hit...think it's the tolerance with the allen key shape oil pump drive shaft.I tryed a key in them, old one had some play , new one was rather difficult to get in.... but i managed with some patience and push....

me happy !

Why not go for an electronic conversion (which is what I did)?

Pertronix

quote:

Originally posted by Kid:
Why not go for an electronic conversion (which is what I did)?

Pertronix

Kid, it is semi electronic. There are no breaker points if that is what you mean.It's a optisch eye go gives the pulses. The old one also , so i had nothing to change... just plug in the 3 wires.

quote:

Originally posted by Belgiumbarry:
got the new dizzy today and installed.Perfect , 14 ° idle, 36 at 3300 revs. So i could go 16/38 ??

The new one has a different advance mechanic and the max is to be installed with some plastic keys marked the wanted ° .There was no kit keys/springs included so i kept the fabricators choice.My old one hasn't that , the max to be installed with the plate out of the distributor.
So Mallory has improved it in the years

Installing was not a direct hit...think it's the tolerance with the allen key shape oil pump drive shaft.I tryed a key in them, old one had some play , new one was rather difficult to get in.... but i managed with some patience and push....

me happy !

38 degrees is a lot of advance these days with the current pump gas.

36 should be maximum and even 34 or 35 would still be ok with total advance.

Most of the Clevelands are more responsive with about 16 degrees initial advance.

Depending on what you have for ignition besides the distributor, the engine can be difficult for the battery to turn the engine over fast enough for it to start.

There are ignition controllers like the Ford Duraspark and the Pantera-Electronics ignition that both retard the ignition when turning the engine over to start to make it easier to start.

I am happy for you that the basic issue has been corrected.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by Belgiumbarry:
got the new dizzy today and installed.Perfect , 14 ° idle, 36 at 3300 revs. So i could go 16/38 ??

The new one has a different advance mechanic and the max is to be installed with some plastic keys marked the wanted ° .There was no kit keys/springs included so i kept the fabricators choice.My old one hasn't that , the max to be installed with the plate out of the distributor.
So Mallory has improved it in the years

Installing was not a direct hit...think it's the tolerance with the allen key shape oil pump drive shaft.I tryed a key in them, old one had some play , new one was rather difficult to get in.... but i managed with some patience and push....

me happy !

38 degrees is a lot of advance these days with the current pump gas.

36 should be maximum and even 34 or 35 would still be ok with total advance.

Most of the Clevelands are more responsive with about 16 degrees initial advance.

Depending on what you have for ignition besides the distributor, the engine can be difficult for the battery to turn the engine over fast enough for it to start.

There are ignition controllers like the Ford Duraspark and the Pantera-Electronics ignition that both retard the ignition when turning the engine over to start to make it easier to start.

I am happy for you that the basic issue has been corrected.

thanks ! so i keep it just under 36°. Must have a look what i have for ignition besides the distributor... don't know But even with the initial 26° given by the broken one, starting was perfect ....never a problem.Yes, after long parking ( weeks) i must start a few times and pedal-pump the gas ... but from there just touching the key and the engine spins.
Ok, let's have a look what's more in there ...

quote:

Originally posted by Belgiumbarry:

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

quote:

Originally posted by Belgiumbarry:
got the new dizzy today and installed.Perfect , 14 ° idle, 36 at 3300 revs. So i could go 16/38 ??

The new one has a different advance mechanic and the max is to be installed with some plastic keys marked the wanted ° .There was no kit keys/springs included so i kept the fabricators choice.My old one hasn't that , the max to be installed with the plate out of the distributor.
So Mallory has improved it in the years

Installing was not a direct hit...think it's the tolerance with the allen key shape oil pump drive shaft.I tryed a key in them, old one had some play , new one was rather difficult to get in.... but i managed with some patience and push....

me happy !

38 degrees is a lot of advance these days with the current pump gas.

36 should be maximum and even 34 or 35 would still be ok with total advance.

Most of the Clevelands are more responsive with about 16 degrees initial advance.

Depending on what you have for ignition besides the distributor, the engine can be difficult for the battery to turn the engine over fast enough for it to start.

There are ignition controllers like the Ford Duraspark and the Pantera-Electronics ignition that both retard the ignition when turning the engine over to start to make it easier to start.

I am happy for you that the basic issue has been corrected.

thanks ! so i keep it just under 36°. Must have a look what i have for ignition besides the distributor... don't know But even with the initial 26° given by the broken one, starting was perfect ....never a problem.Yes, after long parking ( weeks) i must start a few times and pedal-pump the gas ... but from there just touching the key and the engine spins.
Ok, let's have a look what's more in there ...

I would limit total to 35-36 and set initial (without vacuum connected) to 15-16 and leave it at that.

Clevelands really shouldn't be set with a timing light though, just checked to see what the final setting was and recorded.

The timing should be set with a vacuum gauge. You should keep advancing the distributor until the engine rpm stops rising, set it there, readjust the idle set screw on the carburetor down, then go back and see what the timing light says it is. Usually that will be around 16.

Make sure the choke is fully off when you do that also.

Panteras are just a pain to do this to because of the location of the distributor. Such is life.



You probably have the CJ engine with the open chamber heads and dished pitons.

It is the high compression engines, around 11:1 or so that have issues re-starting when they are hot because of the initial advance.

Sometimes the cable to the starter gets so hot you will see it smoking.



I doubt that Shelby's people did anything with that engine at all except pull it out and install the Dodge engine in it. Then put the original stock engine back in it when they were done playing around with it.

It's probably all stock from Detomaso in that respect?

The Pantera-Electronics ignition is a worthwhile upgrade. It will fire fouled plugs and as a result give the engine the opportunity to clean them up, it gives you a noticeably hotter spark than the MSD 6a does, it retards the ignition when the engine is trying to start to make it easier, it shuts off the A/C compressor then also. It runs a box coil and gets rid of the coil in a can which is a big improvement also.

There are a bunch of ancillary benefits with it as well.

Works with any distributor.


Keep an eye out for changes in the ignition performance with the new Mallory distributor. They are still prone to advance spring failure like just occurred with the old one.

Now you know the symptoms to look for?

i have no magic box in there, only a coil in can and a resistor.
Just made a test drive , max 14 initial, max 36 all in, and again there are some "misfires" ? little hesitations , once above 5000 rpm.
"
Gonne see now what "initial" , according my timing light , the engine would like with the vacuum method.


e voilà , again according my timing light , engine spins best idle at 26° ! ???
Is my light 10° off ? balancer 10° off ???
gonna try another light ....


and yes ! light is wrong ???( new one )have a old one with no advance install , painted the 16° mark and there it is ... as the new one gives 26. Or do old cars only like old timing lights ?

I don't think the misfires are distributor related now.
You could look at all of the plugs and see what they look like.
You could be blowing carbon off of them that has built up on them and the valves.
You need to drive it but don't just take it out and go 150 for a couple of miles.
If it is carbon then that will just melt it and it will appear as a glaze over everything.

You now need to examine all of the vacuum plumbing and look for leaks.

Look at the brake booster too. You need to test it to see if it holds pressure. It could have a small leak in the diaphram and the misfires could be coming from a vacuum leak somewhere in the system.

If all of that checks out then it may be time to pull off the heads and reseat the valves.

These valves are not like the current 4 valve per cylinder overhead cam engines.

Those engines will go several hundred thousand miles without any need to reseat the valves.

The Cleveland really needs to be looked at for that around 70 to 80 thousand miles.

thanks again ! test drive for tomorrow, must get the grandkids ...stupid coincidense, broken distributor and a bad timing light ( made in the USA ) ..so i was driving 16 initial, 26 all in , which i measured 26,36

The 26 will be the reason engine died pulling around 5000 ??

Car has only 10 thousand miles....

quote:

Originally posted by Belgiumbarry:
thanks again ! test drive for tomorrow, must get the grandkids ...stupid coincidense, broken distributor and a bad timing light ( made in the USA ) ..so i was driving 16 initial, 26 all in , which i measured 26,36

The 26 will be the reason engine died pulling around 5000 ??

Car has only 10 thousand miles....

Sure. 26 total will kill the power big time. You need at least 32 to 33 and even that will take power out of the engine.

You would ONLY use 32-3 if you had big compression ratio like 11:1 and it would only be to keep the gas from detonating without a spark from the plugs. It isn't what you would want to do at all.

36 total is what you are aiming for.

You will see the difference.

worse memory now... i changed a good OEM running engine in my track 928 to IDA48's.. just for the fun and see what i could gain...my theorie was much better breathing....never got it better then with the injection... and dismantled the engine .For THAT i bought the new timing light...so , if it was fault from the beginning , i always run with 10° ignition advance sort ! no wonder....

indeed great difference ! pulls hard and even.
Will wait for longer test drive after tech inspection this week... i'm no more 100% in order with Belgian law so better to wait .Upon now i was driving the UK plates & registration from the former owner, but lately they look for forain license plates.From now on forbitten unless you work at that country and have a official income from there ...... Yes , they search everything not to miss some taxes so they can waste it still more !