quote:
Originally posted by Kid:
Pfffw, all this reading on decklid struts, and now I still don't know which I should buy...

Tried to find me some in Belgium, but so far without luck - wasn't expecting it would be that hard to find me such struts down here... :-/

My group 4 car has BOGE and I see a number 437G on them, which I believe they have these struts overseas. These have a real good feel to them, although the ones on my black car (Autozone D95004) are about right too for correct pressure.
quote:
Originally posted by 4NHOTROD:
Wing or no wing? Can you get Napa parts there? Will


Have currently a teeny weeny "wing", but that's on the long term subject to change (I have the intention to get rid of the wing).


I'm not sure whether the current (dead) struts are still the originals, but they are huge, which made the parts dealers I did visit think it were suspension shocks... Over time someone did paint them, so can't see any partnumber or thelike on them.

I read the Wilkinsons are good, later on they are not, I read the originals (the 18126A's) are good, later on they are not, PIM sells them, etc... Confused I don't want to go for the IPSCO modification set for sure - don't like to drill extra holes, and see the original attachement points being unused, nor do I have plans to go for 180° headers.

NAPA will be a no go over here, but BOGE does indeed ring a bell... I could wait until I'm in the US again (which I was only a couple of weeks ago, but too little time to get into buying car parts), and check out NAPA or Autozone, but I'd like to have new struts, the sooner the better... Big Grin Roll Eyes

Now I have an idea of what pressure needed, it might make the search easier too though.
Hey Kid, You haven't introduced your car to us. I see an early pushbutton car there. Tell us about it (in a new thread)

regards
Denis
quote:
Originally posted by Kid:
quote:
Originally posted by 4NHOTROD:
Wing or no wing? Can you get Napa parts there? Will


Have currently a teeny weeny "wing", but that's on the long term subject to change (I have the intention to get rid of the wing).

I'm not sure whether the current (dead) struts are still the originals, but they are huge, which made the parts dealers I did visit think it were suspension shocks... Over time someone did paint them, so can't see any partnumber or thelike on them.

I read the Wilkinsons are good, later on they are not, I read the originals (the 18126A's) are good, later on they are not, PIM sells them, etc... Confused I don't want to go for the IPSCO modification set for sure - don't like to drill extra holes, and see the original attachement points being unused, nor do I have plans to go for 180° headers.

NAPA will be a no go over here, but BOGE does indeed ring a bell... I could wait until I'm in the US again (which I was only a couple of weeks ago, but too little time to get into buying car parts), and check out NAPA or Autozone, but I'd like to have new struts, the sooner the better... Big Grin Roll Eyes

Now I have an idea of what pressure needed, it might make the search easier too though.

As for pressure ratings, I did some pressure measurements as noted earlier, but this is how I would line things up:
(1) the Autozone D95004 seem to be just the right pressure allowing the hood to remain open (you even have to add about a finger of pressure to guide it upward somewhat when opening the hood).
(2) the BOGE 437G by feel opening and closing the hood seems to be the next higher pressure (I never had these out to measure pressure though).
(3) the DeTomaso 18126A seem to be the highest pressure, hold onto your hood if you get these after you pop your hood open as the pressure causes the hood to raise real quick. Wilkinson says he never had issues with owners of these struts, so they are probably ok pressure, but they were just a little strong for my comfort level especially on a hot run where they seem to get even stronger (probably like any struts).

Very nice looking car you have, I really like how the exhaust sits real close to the body/bumpers if that is no issue with heat & paint.
Ok, got me new shocks (from PPC), but not too happy with them. They are about half an inch longer than the old (original?) ones, and the heads a bit too big, so I can't get the bolts properly in. And now I do have new shocks around, I can really feel myself how much pressure is needed to push them in, and that pressure feels like huge. Don't like the idea of having constantly that much extra stress on the bodywork, especially concentrated on such a little area...

Have to think things over again, and look for an other solution...




quote:
Originally posted by MARLIN JACK:
...Use Teflon Grease! Does Not Freeze, Won't Dry-Out! WD-40 will EAT the Rubber Seals, and will evaporate after awhile!...

Damn things still tending to get stiff when opening the hood after a few days of sitting. That Sta-lube moly-graph lube seems to be the best at unfrezing them. I couldn't find an actual teflon grease, but got teflon grease spray and for some reason that really locked the hood almost shut after a couble of days. I even tried a lithium silicone grease, but nothing seems to work well after a few days of sitting. When I finally get the decklid open, the rods are dry as hell, with grease on the upper and bottom portions of the rod. Once I get a little greas on the rods again, then a few up and down motions get it going smooth as butta again. What the hey, don't know why it is all of a sudden doing all this. I never lube my other shocks and there is no problem with them. Maybe the internals went funky or too tight or something. So may go get some new ones again.
quote:
Ok, got me new shocks (from PPC), but not too happy with them. They are about half an inch longer than the old (original?) ones, and the heads a bit too big, so I can't get the bolts properly in. And now I do have new shocks around, I can really feel myself how much pressure is needed to push them in, and that pressure feels like huge. Don't like the idea of having constantly that much extra stress on the bodywork, especially concentrated on such a little area...

Have to think things over again, and look for an other solution...


From the picture, it looks to me that they are the same length and if longer by 1/2", it should still be OK.
The heads are too big? Open the bracket up a small amount and the shock head will fit in. From the picture, it looks like you need to open it about 1mm??
I find it hard to beleive that a vendor would send you shocks that don't work.
Will
The heads are too big in that sense that they do fit in the brackets, but the end of the heads do touch the lid, and then the hole in the head does not align with both the hole at the outside of the bracket, and the threaded hole in the lid. Sure, I can make the hole in the outer side of the bracket bigger, but then still there is no way to get the bolt in the threaded hole. After all, there is no way to simply replace the threaded hole in the lid...

quote:
Originally posted by 4NHOTROD:
I find it hard to beleive that a vendor would send you shocks that don't work.
Will


They sure will work for others, but do not really fit MY car. Btw, I don't blame the vendor for selling me things that don't just fit they way they should, in my opinion it is rather a specific car related issue. If I really want, I can force a bolt in on the right side, but at the left side, the misalignment is even bigger, so no way to get a bolt in. It's related to being a handbuild lid I guess...

I'll just go for an other solution.
quote:
Originally posted by Husker:
Its a shame you're not willing go use the IPSCO setup. It appears to address all your concerns. I just received mine. Very nice setup. I intend to cut off the stock mounts (might leave the ones on the deck lid).


Well, to be honest, I've been thinking about going for that set-up after all... Roll Eyes
I got a new set of Autozone D95004 since these were perfect when I bought them, but some how got stiff and I almost have to grease them daily in order to open and shut the decklid. Doing it alone again, and replacing the same length struts I thought I could just hold up the hood like this shown in the photo and change one strut at a time. I whittled the top of the wood like Jed Clampet so that it fits just right in that upper latch grove which is pretty deep, and the bottom of the wood I have a metal reinforcment so that the wood will not split if too much pressure. After I load the back end with blankets and towels, does anyone see issues with trying to change the struts this way? When I change one strut, I would suspect the decklid would drop slightly on the side I took it out (even with this middle support), so I was thinking of putting the wood on the corner instead with good cushining of course. But the more cushining I use, that allows the hood to drop more slightly when I get the strut out, so that may not be as good as doing solid wood in the middle like shown. I am just being careful since the hood strut is real close to the hood and if the hood drops even slightly at the moment I get the strut bolt out...ouch! I think what is really needed is some type of support right at the strut area to hold that in place when the stut bold comes out, since holding the hood from anywhere on the back end still alows the strut area to drop somewhat. Having someone hold it can be dicy too, since you could over extend the hood into the paint...I have a fraction of an inch space there.

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I ended up using the one wood in the middle and also one on the sides to change out the struts. Worked ok, except that the left strut space on the car seems smaller than the right, so I had to raise the hood to a significant degree on the left side in order to get that strut in, all the time measuring the space between decklid and car with a piece of manila folder...was tight but worked ok with just enough space before paint hit paint (again with wife assistance to slightly raise the hood Smiler). The old right strut had some leaking at the bottom, but I don't see why that would make the hood become stiff on the up and down motion. Maybe extreme heat in the engine bay changed the struts over the past year or so...who knows, we will see how these new ones do. I plan on trying no lube this time, maybe that screwed them up, not sure. I use no lube on my other two cars and no issues whatsoever for several years now. I am glad to get those off there, I could hardly raise the hood after it sat a day or so untill I applied loads of lube to make it move again, but that got old having to do that every couple days or so.
FWIW and purely by accident, I found that the rod ends on many of the small replacement gas struts UNSCREW. So if you're having trouble with only that end fitting , it may be possible to change just the ends- maybe by contacting the mfgr. Found this out 'cause Hall used to sell gas struts with a blade end rather than a rod end (which took special brackets), and the blade end fell off in shipment....
Just installed the Autozone D95004. Got the wife to lift the deck (after I had put painter's tape on its edge to protect it). Made some spacers/bushings from bronze air fittings cut to 3/4" lengths that fit perfectly.
quote:
Originally posted by DOES 200:
Well, here is the first measurement on a brand, if anyone wants to add more brands. I measured one strut using my 4 post lift as a press with a scale under it.

Mighty-Lift D95004:
1" compressed = 96 lb
4" compressed = 105 lb
6" combressed = 108 lb

I did not put the Mighty-Lift on my car yet. I still have the Detomaso sold by many on my car, below is a link to the one from Wilkenson. I would be real interested in the pressure of these Detomaso struts.
http://www.panterapartsusa.com...l.cgi?prod_id=18126A


To continue with this post by adding more pressure measurements of other struts, I just measured the Detomaso 18126A brand from Wilkinson and here are the pressure specs:

1/2 to 1" compressed = 120 lb (this is what it took to make it start to compress).
2" to full compression gradually increased from the 120 to 160 near full compression.


My Autozone Mighty-lift 95004 seem to have given out, as now they hardly hold the hood up. I was thinking of putting Detomaso 18126A back on the car, so I decided to check the strut pressure again using the pressure from my car lift on the strut with bathroom scale under. As I lowered the lift and compressed the strut, the 120 lb to 160 lb as shown above was still valid. So if no one is experiencing issues with these shocks, then that pressure may be ok. I always hear everyone hype how these shocks release pressure when compressed, well that sure doesn't seem true on my testing. Maybe I am not testing pressure properly? I just lower my lift onto the shock and watch the bathroom scale numbers as I slowly lower the lift, what the hey!
quote:
Originally posted by TomCat:
quote:
Autozone Mighty-lift 95004

My Autozone Mighty-lift 95004 were week this winter (after only about 6 months)...but seem to be satisfactory as the weather/engine heats up.

It has warmed up here in CA and when running the car warm they do stay up just "almost", so I may just get another pair. Still debating the Detomaso 18126A, but I recall when on my car the pressure was even much greater when the car was run and engine bay hot (so with a hot engine bay, those pressure numbers shown above are probably much higher).
Page 3, August 29, 2008:
I contacted Wilkinson. Bill explined the NAPA shocks create the most pressure in the closed position. He said they have seen numerous deck lids damaged (bent) and deck lid hinges and pins warped with these shocks due the pressure exerted by the NAPA (Belcamp & Omni shocks). The shock (NAPA style)pressure is maxed in the closed position, exerting a constant amount of pressure on the deck lid.

Bill advised their replacemnt shock has the correct pressure and it is maxed in the open position. He also said he it will not make any difference on the NAPA shocks to have the piston up or down, same pressure.

Bill said a new deck lid is $5,400.00 !

I do not see any reason to screw around trying to save $45-50 and risk damage. I don't believe he would set any sales records for a pair of shocks costing about $90.00. I felt his advice was sincere. His also comes with the hardware.

We all like to save money but the possible consequences do not seem to be worth the risk.

They work great & i don't worry about bending the deck.

IndyDave
I'll put in my $.02 for the IPSCO setup. Preferable geometry. When the decklid is closed, there is no vertical vector, so it won't heave your decklid out of shape. Mine has a slight heave on the left side from previous struts. When you hit the lock button, it lifts on its own. Pricier, but worth it.

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quote:
Originally posted by IndyDave:
Page 3, August 29, 2008:
I contacted Wilkinson. Bill explined the NAPA shocks create the most pressure in the closed position. He said they have seen numerous deck lids damaged (bent) and deck lid hinges and pins warped with these shocks due the pressure exerted by the NAPA (Belcamp & Omni shocks). The shock (NAPA style)pressure is maxed in the closed position, exerting a constant amount of pressure on the deck lid.

Bill advised their replacemnt shock has the correct pressure and it is maxed in the open position. He also said he it will not make any difference on the NAPA shocks to have the piston up or down, same pressure.

Bill said a new deck lid is $5,400.00 !

I do not see any reason to screw around trying to save $45-50 and risk damage. I don't believe he would set any sales records for a pair of shocks costing about $90.00. I felt his advice was sincere. His also comes with the hardware.

We all like to save money but the possible consequences do not seem to be worth the risk.

They work great & i don't worry about bending the deck.

IndyDave


IndyDave. I am not sure what the BS is with the less pressure in the closed position on those Detomaso shocks. I put one of those shocks on a press with a scale and the pressure is as indicated below (160 compressed), which is why I hesitate to use them. And these pressure are with cool shocks, you warm them up in a hot engine bay and it is much more. I hear 110 lb max is what it will take to not bend the decklid on shocks over time. If I buy them I wonder if they would guarantee decklid replacement, as that is where the rubber meets the road. Don't take my word for it, anyone buying them just put it on a press with a scale before you put it on your car and read what it says as you compress them.

Here are the pressure measurements I got on the Detomaso 18126A measureing one shock:
1/2 to 1" compressed = 120 lb (this is what it took to make it start to compress).
2" to full compression gradually increased from the 120 to 160 near full compression.

I may just end up going with a broom stick and be done with it.
I too just installed the IPSCO Rear Deck Lid Shock Replacement Kit. Very nice kit / works great. Dave2811 is right, geometry on stock setup just seems wrong, no matter what shock you use it pushes up on your deck lid. IPSCO kit will work great for 180's too. Looks to be about $200 for the kit -

Main page
http://www.ipsco.org/

Rear Deck Lid Shock Replacement Kit
http://www.ipsco.org/Pantera%2...id%20Shock%20Kit.htm
The IPSCO deck lid shock replacement kit is great. The instructions are straight forward. Even comes with a drill bit stop to prevent drilling through your deck lid. I wanted my mounts polished. They were kind enough to take off the anodizing and polish them for me. The only difficult part is fishing the backing plate up through the deck lid, oh, and deciding to drill holes in your car!
I am obviously no deck lid shock expert, but if installing the IPSCO, I would just be very careful with the deck lid proximity to the roof line when installing because from what I saw on Dave's yellow car at C&C is that these shocks tend to elevate the deck lid extension more than the other struts. See the following photos showing the hood getting closer to vertical with those shocks. Just be careful with it, and you may need to back up your deck lid a little. Nice car Dave!

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Kind of interesting, Brad's blue car with the IPSCO set up seems to have lower hood extension than Dave's yellow car. Maybe they offer choices of different shock lengths. But anyway I don't feel like drilling into my engine bay, so I may still just go with broom stick...would be a good conversation item at car shows.

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quote:
Originally posted by DOES 200:
Kind of interesting, Brad's blue car with the IPSCO set up seems to have lower hood extension than Dave's yellow car. Maybe they offer choices of different shock lengths. .....

I guess it depends on how closely you measure per the instructions. Placement of the anchor points will have a huge effect on the geometry.

Yea, you have to watch the pinch point between the decklid and the body when installing the kit.

Edit: I reviewed the installation instructions, and there seems to be a conflict on the placement of the upper anchor points. One page says 25" to the center of the ball, and one page says 25" to the first hole. I believe I placed mine at the latter, so that would move the ball further fwd, and raise the lid higher.

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