Sticky #4: Pantera Exhaust Systems

With some work one might be able to integrate sections of a chambered exhaust system to help reduce the droning. 

Mark

 

It is black art.

My headers are balanced, the tail pipes are the same length and the mufflers are probably identical although I do not know why a manufacturer would melkr them identical if it would lead to droning.  I liked the solution in the video although other studies show that the added tube in the one muffler is awfully small in diameter.

Something changed in my car causing the drone to start.  I have to figure that out.

Thanks for the help.

Dick Ruzzin

I have none of the dreaded "drone" with my Borla style internals. Loud, yes ... but no drone. Also, I understand Dennis Quella (Pantera Performance Center, Colorado) is selling very nice stainless steel mufflers with, apparently, no drone. There are videos (with sound) on his Facebook page. 

 

David, are those custom shells?  If they are the look very nice.

i have a pair of the Pantera Performance mufflers.  2 1/2” inlet.  If you hold them up you can see right through them.  They don’t look like they are too restrictive.  They sound nice. I have only been in the car once with these mufflers.  I just wish they looked a little closer to the Ansa’s.

Jim, yes...they're custom stainless steel shells. They were made for me by a British fabricator who was working for Borla doing special projects. They are replicas of the OEM Ansa GTS mufflers except with 2-1/2" internals and "straight through" construction. Like yours, you can roll a golf ball through them. They aren't as loud as you think they'd be. I recently had my engine dyno tuned and for fun, did a "pull" with the full exhaust system, including mufflers. To my surprise, we lost zero horsepower with them, up to 6,500 rpm.

If you had your muffler cans coated black, they'd look pretty close to the stock Ansa's. Mine are ceramic coated but there's a new air-dry, high temp. coating called Cerakote that would work too.   

 

David, those are awesome.  I like the fact that they look OEM but are stainless steel and don’t have the flow restrictions and drone issues.

 Can your friend still make those?

I did have my mufflers coated black which does help to get to the factory appearance, but the overall shape is a little different, it’s more oval.

Jim, he made those mufflers for me in 2004. I lost touch with him a few years later and, despite numerous attempts, was never able to get back in touch. 

That’s too bad David.  I would buy those mufflers in a second.    One of the best alternatives to the OEM Ansa’s.  Are the bodies hand made or did he stamp them?

The muffler cans were hand made. 

Jan, there was an old article re building exotic Pantera headers. Seems some bucks-up owner (not Gary Hall!) decided to build the Ultimate Pantera back in the mid '70s. He hired a race car shop to 'suitably' modify his planned super-supercar. They found an ex-NASCAR 427 SOHC engine and shoehorned it into his Pantera, along with twin turbochargers for a targeted 1000 bhp- in the '70s! Turbos heat the exhausts significantly so they decided to make the needed headers of heat resistant Inconel.  Ultimate car needs an ultimate exhaust, right?

Back then, Inconel was an exotic metal used mostly by NASA and in missles, fighter jets and long-range bomber engines, and commercially only as sheet (with restricted access to buy). Inconel is a very high nickel/chrome metal and at the time most nickel came from the Soviet Union and Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe)- neither country very friendly to the USA. But the crew did manage to purchase many thin sheets, cut and rolled them into tubes, seam-welded the edges and hot-sand-bent the resulting tubes to make up needed turbo exhausts. VERY steep learning curve for the crew in welding and forming- not much info on Inconel forming back 50 years.

But things progressed slowly until one day the shop was visited by two trim young men in dark suits and sunglasses, who ID-ed themselves as U.S. SECRET SERVICE AGENTS!  "Sir, the Government wants to know what you're doing with all that Inconel...." They could hardly believe their eyes when shown the exhaust header production methods the shop had devised for a hot-rod. Likely their official report to spook-central in Washington would be very entertaining to read, if located and maybe declassified.

Sad ending- by the time the monster was ready to drive, several years of shop time and some $900,000 had reportedly been spent or at least billed. About the same time, the car owner had had serious money issues and went bankrupt so the finished car was now up for sale. The magazine article was not specific as to what actually happened to the first million-dollar Pantera and this all predated the Internet. I'll try to find that old article in my magazine piles or maybe other old-timers remember more details. But $5000 for an exhaust system seems almost reasonable compared to that saga.

Cheers- J DeRyke

Again, your friend did a great job.  I thought the shells might have been stamped.   There are a couple of shops  that are near me that have the tools and skills that would be able to build me a set like that by hand.

 Did you purchase the inserts from Borla or did he make those as well?

Jim, he made everything, except the perforated tubing and the polished stainless steel tips. Also, the packing in the cans is some sort of spun ceramic material. Apparently, it has the same sound reducing qualities as fiberglass but it won't deteriorate from heat. Time will tell. 

David, thanks so much for the info.  This might be a future option for me as I really like the way yours came out.

Recently I have been thinking about putting Wilkinson’s stainless mufflers on my car.  I have Pantera Performance mufflers on the car now and they are nicely made and sound nice, but wish they looked like the Ansa’s.  

So for any owners that have Wilkinson’s stainless system on your car, what are your impressions of it (quality, sound, what type of stainless steel was used 304/309/321, durability)?

Tkanks

Does he have them back in stock?   When I was looking he had none?

I spoke with him yesterday and he said that he did unless there was a misunderstanding and it was for different exhausts that he carried.  I specifically mentioned stainless.  The price was $1600.  I forgot to ask what grade stainless he used.

Good to know.  

@jimmym did you ever paint or coat the cans of your Pantera Performance mufflers black?

I was looking at those ones. Might be interested in yours.

The ones David had made are sure beautiful. Are Wilkinson's the same inside or made like the stock ones were?

I had the mufflers ceramic coated, but I am not plan on selling them even if I get something different.  I think that the Wilkinson mufflers have been modified internally, but look stock on the outside if I am correct.

Otis I agree, David’s mufflers are awesome.

I purchased the “GTS”  exhaust system from Wilkerson 5 or so years back. The headers are fine but the Cans had a heavy drone around 2500 rpm.  After a few months the spot welds started to break loose and along with the drone it sounded like a handful of nuts and bolts were rattling around inside. The very thin gauge metal made welding very difficult.  I ended cutting the cans off and replacing them with the dual big bore mufflers PIM used to sell. No drone and nice tone. A tad loud but only when I jump on it.  I like how they look too.

A few pics…

Thanks for the info Joe.   Did you try to get Wilkinson to replace the faulty mufflers?

Your new mufflers look nice.  I thought about having something similar to yours made up.  I wasn’ t planning on using the Wilkinson headers because I had some custom ones built by GP Headers and they also made a 3” exhaust for me.

Yes, he told me that it never happened before and wanted me to send it to him to try to fix. I had the system for less than 3 months and I wanted a replacement. He said he would not do that. I paid over 1500$ for it and trying to fix it wasn’t acceptable. Basically he told me to pound sand. From talking to many people, that was not an unusual way for him to do business. I’m glad that there are other vendors that I can do business with. Just my experience…

Thanks Joe.  I will take that information into consideration if I decide to proceed the project.  That is a lot of money to spend if you aren’t happy with the product and don’t get any recourse.