Torker Intake

quote:

Originally posted by Derrick:
A friend has given me a Torker intake to use and when I install it on the engine I see it tilts the carb forward a fair amount. I understand they do this for a mustang as the engine tilts back to achieve drive line angles. As the engine was not in the car when I got it I can't judge if the engine sits level (I am assuming it does). If the engine does sit level I could see some possible drivability problems with the carb tilted forward that much. Any thoughts?? Thanks

You could have the carb base milled flat, or get a carb spacer and have it milled at an angle (how ever many degrees to make sit level)
I'm sure others will be able to help more then I.
Good Luck

Normally you could adjust float levels to compensate for the angle of the carb. Such a forward angle could cause flooding during hard braking. It will also cause a large tilt on the air cleaner. I would recommend milling the intake flat.

Moroso makes a 5 deg spacer that works great! I have one on my car with a Edelbrock Performer RPM air gap.

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=32020


I bought mine from Summit Racing for like $35

Ron

I'm with you, mounting the carb at a nose down angle is not ideal. The Blue Thunder intake is available with a flat carb mount, designed specifically for our Panteras.

When automobile motors are mounted in some boats, they are mounted flat just as in the Pantera. I've seen the angle carby spacers Ron refers to in boat shops as well.

Although the angle is not ideal, when hot rodders raise the rear end of a car, or lower the front end, sometimes worse angles are encountered by the carby than what's encountered in the Pantera, and they run just fine. Many an owner has been running his Pantera with similar angles to the carby for more than 30 years.

I ride off road motorcycles. Carbys on our off-road motors encounter all sorts of extreme angles on a continuous basis, with seldom a hiccup.

I wouldn't consider optimizing the angle of the carby a waste of time, but I doubt you'll measure any benefits.

cowboy from hell

Was the original equipment intake manifold in the Pantera special for the car?
I thought that it was just a box stock iron 4v CJ Ford intake manifold?

When one adjusts the float levels in a Holley, the adjustments for special applications are made to maintain a static fuel level in the emulsion tubes and idle transfer slots.

As long as that is taken into account there should be no problem.

If you are using a Holley carb with fuel level sight plugs in the bowls, you may have to switch to Moroso type clear plugs and adjust the level higher then "normal" instructions would have.

This is true of the Ford 2-4v carb set ups that mount the carb backwards.

In that case the secondaries are adjusted higher then specs and the primaries lower. If you don't the primaries will flood at idle and the secondaries will run dry.

Thanks for the info. My concern is a sudden stop, carb flooding, engine stalling loosing brake assistance.
I did not know there was an angle plate available. I'm sure it will reduce the angle somewhat , maybe enough to make a difference during a severe brake application.

In my experience in autocross and open track events all cars equipped with a carb where the fuel bowl is in the front or the rear of the carb will stall under severve braking because the fuel is sloshing away from the idle circuit pick up.

Moroso does make fuel jet extensions to counter this but they are not a foolproof guaranty.

Some of the Holley carbs with racing applications are equipped with air vent extensions to reduce the amount of fuel spilled through the top of the carb. It doesn't eliminate it though.

The only way to prevent the staling that I know of is by going to fuel injection where there are no fuel bowls.

One of the nice things about the Weber 48ida set-ups is that they are much less susceptable to the fuel sloshing problems. It also makes them very responsive in high speed turns.

quote:

Originally posted by CrazyDave:
Normally you could adjust float levels to compensate for the angle of the carb. Such a forward angle could cause flooding during hard braking. It will also cause a large tilt on the air cleaner. I would recommend milling the intake flat.

If you are milling an edelbrock torker 2760 flat then you are milling into the threaded hole for the vacuum connection and maybe also into the runners.
I would recommend a spacer instead.

Priced a plate to offset the angle and then priced a airgap intake for 2v head which will help torque and botton end (mistake). So guess what I did?? I ordered the manifold and plate as the airgap has a slight angle biult into it also. I hate myself

I installed the Edelbrock RPM airgap intake on my car and I too have the slight nose down problem. Has anyone run it this way? Has anyone experienced any problems with it? I understand the theory of stalling/starving during acceleration /decelleration due to fuel slosh but does this actually happen? I'd rather not use a wedge spacer if not necessary. Thanks guys!

Dennis,

I've been running the Torker for a while and yes under hard braking I flood the engine and it stalls if I don't blip the throttle quick enough.

I'm living with it at the moment as I want to get an Al head and intake package soon (CHI or C302).

If you don't want to use a spacer, I assume due to further height additiond why not have the top of the intake machined to the correct angle?

Julian

Dennis,

no problemo brother. Let's reason this thing through so you won't worry about it.

The only manifolds that mount the carby flat are the special Blue Thunder and the various SVO & Yates manifolds. Everything else has the ~10 degree angle machined into it. The most popular manifolds for the Cleveland motor, the Edelbrock Performer, the Edelbrock Torker and the Holley Strip Dominator all have the angled carb pad. There are more Pantera guys, Cobra guys, etc running their carburetors at angles, than their are those that have flat manifolds.

How many complaints of fuel starvation have you read about here, on the mail list, etc?

Since a car doesn't travel only on flat ground, the ability to feed fuel to the jets a various angles is designed into the fuel bowls, make sense?

The fuel will slosh forward under hard braking, backwards under acceleration, even if the manifold mounted the carb flat, the issue Julian refers to will not go away if the carb were mounted flat.

aloha, cowboy from hell

A little more info on the subject...

The center hung float bowls of the Holley carby were designed by Smokey Yunik in the 1950's to alleviate fuel starvation problems encountered in the high speed corners of NASCAR racing on the high speed oval tracks. The float pivots are oriented in such a way as to not be affected by centiufugal forces acting sideways upon the carby.

Ever notice the Holley street carbys have "side hung" float bowls? Aha! The pivot orientation of the side hung floats, and the narrower fuel bowls are affected less by acceleration and deceleration.

The last Autolite carb design from Ford was the 4300 spread bore, and the last carb design by Carter was the Thermoquad. Both carbys feature "U" shaped floats, called pontoon floats, and narrow fuel bowls, that were designed to perform optimally under acceleration, deceleration, and cornering. Some enthusiasts, and the Carter carburetor company, believed the Thermoquad was the best 4 barrell carburetor ever designed.

cowboy from hell

The only thing that will eliminate the stalling under braking and flooding under accelleration is fule injection.

Those situations usually happen under severe, or "racing" conditions. It you can stall it on the street from braking, and you didn't hit anything or anything didn't hit you you really have the brakes and tires working. Usually you will skid which will reduce the g forces.

Hum? Did ABS brakes come before EFI? Anti-lock is maximizing g-forces isn't it? Are we talking a carb incompatability here as far as Detroit is concerned? Interesting?

One other comment comes to mind.

If you ride a motorcycle, or drive a carbureted car, it becomes second nature, as you brake hard for a stop, to disengage the clutch and blip the throttle/gas pedal.

But if you spend all week driving a fuel injected car, then slip into the Pantera on the weekend, it won't be second nature to do this, and the motor may die at your first quick stop. I've done it before. Probably the rest of the day you'll be careful to blip the throttle when stopping.

Go to any auto race event involving tight corners, and watch the vehicles backfire as the drivers brake hard going into a turn. Its just the nature of the beast.

beastly cowboy from hell

The problem is only for carburatored Panteras.

I ended up getting the Edelbrock AirGap intake and found it to have the same amount of forward slope to the base. I also got a tapered spacer which is about 3/4" to 1" thick at the front and about 1/4" at the rear. Here is a picture with an old carb on it. Nice and level now....

OOO, pretty, fresh paint and clean aluminum. Too bad it aint that way after 10,000 miles of driving.

quote:

Moroso makes a 5 deg spacer that works great! I have one on my car with a Edelbrock Performer RPM air gap.

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=32020

Ron; Interestingly the catalog description says it is actually designed to tilt the carb forward to the optimum of 5° for better acceleration.

quote:

But if you spend all week driving a fuel injected car, then slip into the Pantera on the weekend, it won't be second nature to do this, and the motor may die at your first quick stop. I've done it before. Probably the rest of the day you'll be careful to blip the throttle when stopping.

George; I never forget to blip the throtte, it's part of the fun and let's 'em know your coming too