U-Joint Recommendations

My suggestion would to give PI MotorSports a call and talk to them about their ½ shaft replacement that includes the U joints. I bought mine from them a few years ago and it was a great deal for an excellent quality part. This might sound like overkill but believe me, U joints are not something you can afford to fail!!

Mike

The vendors all carry quality replacement oem size U-joints, IIRC they are about $40 ea.

Back when oem U-joints were ridiculous $$ it was popular to switch to Spicer half shafts, as they could be had for about the same price as a set of UJ's, so worth verifying you have oem half shafts. The aftermarket Spicers use a Ford truck u-joint.

Hall also produced a funky oem shaft replacement u-joint that was a Ford truck unit with sleeves. Well the sleves have a habit of spinning in the housing and rendering the shaft next to useless.

IMO if you are going to spend big $$ to upgrade your half shafts, go straight to CV joints, don't go from one antequated unit to another and expect a different result. The OEM half shafts are reputed good up to 800 HP so they are perfectly capable.

Julian

Try Powertrain Industries for stock halfshaftss at https://www.powertrainindustri...antera&search_by=all

quote:

Originally posted by Joules5:
The vendors all carry quality replacement oem size U-joints, IIRC they are about $40 ea.

Julian

The problem with re-using the original stock half shafts is that many of them are milled incorrectly and do not hold the U joint caps snugly. Before you order just new U joints I would check and see if any of your U joint caps have been spinning in the yokes. Some of caps might even be spot welded in like mine were to keep them from spinning.

It still amazes me some of the Mickey Mouse repair work you find on these beautiful cars. It makes you wonder!

Mike

Thank you all for your input. I do believe these are the stock half shafts and U-Joints. I check them at the beginning of the driving season for play and such and grease. It gave me no warning prior to breaking. No vibration or noise. Just let go pulling away from the stop sign.
The end caps have the snap rings and no signs of spot welds. I'll post some pictures tonight so you can take a look at them.

Thanks again guys!
Joining this group was one of the best things I've done. (2nd to buying a Pantera)

George

Does anyone know the worst that would happen if in order to make it home, you removed the broken axle entirely and drove home with one axle? I'm just curious.

Michael

The one that broke was the outer passenger side...maybe I didn't have her fully in gear, but she started rolling foward on me. So this is a good question. With the "Limited Slip" transaxle, is the right side the primary drive axel that keeps the car from rolling?
When she was going up on the flatbed, I could watch the shaft turn. When we got it to the house it was the same thing in reverse. I hope to he** I didn't hurt the ZF!

George

George,

You can't drive the car with one half shaft removed. The clutch packs in the ZF won't "engage". That's why the car started rolling when you removed the one half shaft. Nothing in the ZF would have been damaged by winching the car on and off of the flatbed tow truck.

John

John,
Thanks for the explaination on that. Now maybe I can rest easier not worring about the ZF. Just have to replace all the U-Joints.

George

George, I've got a spare half shaft ready to go.

FWIW, aftermarket Spicer halfshafts take F-500 Ford heay duty truck u-joints. Stock halfshafts take even larger u-joints! Spicer halfshafts are usually alodined gold while unmolested stock halfshafts were aluminum- painted.
Two sure signs of a failing u-joint; a red 'Ring of Death' around the base of a u-joint cross when one runs a finger around the bottom of each leg. This is fine rust from disintegrating needle bearings inside the u-joint assembly. Second sign: a polished ring on one or more u-joint caps, visible from the outside through the openings in the yokes. When needle bearings first start to fail, periodic seizuresto the cap occur, spinning the cap in the u-joint yoke and producing a shiny ring. This is a very good reason NOT to run those pretty Logo- u-joint caps that cover this area!
You did get lucky. When a u-joint fails at speed, a broken inner will allow the halfshaft to separate and extend, then flail around like a 20-lb warclub. The end is 'magnetically' attracted to the ZF case and usually cracks it like a walnut. If it's the outer u-joint that snaps, the halfshaft separates, then reams out the hole through the inner fender panel and horse-shoe stamping.... which is also the mount for your rear suspension a-arm tabs. It pays to do a periodic 'walk-around' inspection of your high-performance Pantera now 'n then for brakes, suspension, drive axles and fuel lines.

Boss,
Thanks for getting me up to sped on the other warning signs for faulty U-Joints. I'm going to check all of that in the morning. As you see in the post above yours, Larry W. has a spare to lend me, but I want to make sure the drivers side is good also before I do.

Thanks for the tips.

George

Ok Guys,
I took the left hand side off today and I feel no play in the u-joints. No signs of wear from what I was told to look for, but I want to make sure it will be safe for the rest of the season before I put Larry W's spare shaft on. Please tell me what you think.

Full view

Outside U-Joint

2nd outside

Inside

The inside has alot of grease all over the place. Is that a sign of over greasing the U-Joint?

I also noticed that the shaft opens and closes onlt with alot of force. When I compress the shaft, I can hear air/grease coming out the inside. When I pulled it open, I saw some grease left on the shaft.

This is what Larry's looks like.

So...bottom line that I need to know is do I run my half shaft the way it is for the next couple of weeks or take her off the road until I rebuild both? I don't want to damage Larry's or have the other break at speed and cause even more damage that I can't afford. Next pics are the broken side.

Another

Almost done

Last one.

Any help you guys can offer will be GREATLY appreciated!

George

Most people would rebuild half shafts as a pair, therefore IMO the other side is likely an accident waiting to happen. If they let go at the wrong time you can be looking at thousnds of $$ in body work, why take the risk?

Julian

I can't tell under the dirtball you have whether there's a u-joint or not, so advice on safe-ness is difficult! The force required to slide the halfshaft pieces back & forth on the splines is normal but be advised that you can completely separate the halves, and reassembling them ONE spline off will cause your car to shake like a wet dog! Mark the two halves somehow if you decide to pull them apart for cleaning. Good luck.

I would only run the left side shaft for the remaining driving season and rebuild them both this winter,

Boss
I'll clean up the shaft as best as possible today and re-post pics for you to see.

Thanks for the input guys

Extreme caution would be prudent when messing with the half shafts. You cannot image how bad it can be if you have a half shaft failure at speed including ending up in the ditch or worse. The timing of your failure was a very lucky one!!! Those shafts are quite heavy and the force they can exert is incredible when they let loose. If you are very lucky they keep turning, bashing the holy heck out of the body or ZF causing big $ repairs and don’t lock up the wheel. If you are not going to replace the shafts with new ones (my recommendation) you will need to take them apart to look at the U joint bearings and at that point it doesn’t make much sense not to just replace the U joints. U joints are not very expensive and it is an easy job unless the caps are corroded to the yokes. Also if you plan on cleaning them, the solvent may wick into the bearing caps so that might not be a good idea unless you are going to replace the U joints.

Mike

Hi all
I've been following this topic for a while, and all I've read justs confirms my idea of installing CV joints in all my cars. Not only do they seem to be a lot lighter than half shafts, they also appear to be less subject to failure.( however I never experienced any problem with mine so far)
As those CV joints appear to be over the budget I am willing and able to spend,( I have three cars to equip) I am presently inquiring here and there to have a decent price for my Panteras, and as soon as I find something I can cope with, I will tell the result to my P friends :>)) If someone wants to join me in the purchase, I'll be glad to follow up, but only after I shall have been able to give it a serious check on track with Candy .( i.e . next spring ) If it does not fail with close to 600 HP in Spa, it will most probably be OK for street use.

I believe Pantera Performance in Colorado sells CV setups.

Mike

After reading all your posts and looking at the stock shaft, I've decided to play it on the safe side and order new U-joints. Mike is correct that to clean them up and inspect them properly will more than likely end up require replacing them anyway. I already have both shafts out and a press and media blaster at my shop, so I'll order the u-joints tomorrow and clean up the shafts while waiting for the parts to arrive. I'm sure I'll be back up and running in no time.

Thanks again for all your input. I could have made a very expensive mistake if I didn't ask you guys for help.

Thanks


George

Good plan!! Inspect the splines to make sure the inner shaft is not twisted before you order U joints.

Mike

Patrick,

There are a number of custom CV axle shops that should be able to do this for you at a reasonable price. You want the LOBRO 108mm CV joints (930 or 934 Porsche) and then it's just a case of working out what length of axle shaft and allowing enough for suspension travel (axle slide in the CV joint).

The CV stub axles for the ZF side are readily available, but I don't know of anyone producing the wheel side axle flange in a CV pattern. Maybe Lloyd at RBT or Dennis at PPC would know.

Ken Green worked with SACO Performance (an off road buggy guy) to produce aluminum uprights, brake kits and CV axles for Panteras. Those use conversion blocks to retain the existing stub axles both ZF and wheel side and are a bolt in upgrade.

You can see them here at the bottom of the page and the kit is not much more expensive than replacement half shafts.

http://www.sacoperformance.com/products.php?cat=14

If I was getting those I would insist on a tapered 'aero' boot as the concertina style boots fail easily.

There are others on the forum that have done their own CV conversion and can probably offer information too.

Hope this helps,
Julian

Thank you
I'll be back on the forum as soon as I get more detailed news, and will share it with the forum.
Pat

The splines on both shafts look good and straight! One of the clips that hold the end cap of the U-joint is broken (one that exploded) do new springs come with the U-joints from Wilkinson? If not, how are they to come by?

They normally come with the clips.

That's good to hear. Started tearing them apart for cleaning and re-finishing and the one that didn't break has signs of the cap spinning. Cleaning the grease out I found particals of metal, probably from the bearings.

If the cap was spinning there is a possibility that the new cap my not fit tightly as it should.

Mike

Mike,
I'm not sure if it was from the cap spinning or something else. I'll know more tonight after I press the old ones out.

Thanks again for your help.

George

quote:

Originally posted by Joules5: The CV stub axles for the ZF side are readily available, but I don't know of anyone producing the wheel side axle flange in a CV pattern. Maybe Lloyd at RBT or Dennis at PPC would know.

.

Mark Williams is the only source I know of that makes the companion flange with the proper spline for the Pantera axle. They are ridiculously expensive. $5-600 each I believe! Quella used to offer a conversion kit that used these but I believe he is out of stock and doesn't sell many due to cost. The easiest thing to do is make an adapter for the u-joint flange. Mark Johnson used to make them but I don't see them at his website any more. It's just a puck that has both the CV bolt pattern and conterbored holes for socket head cap screws to secure it to the standard u-joint flange. You dont even have to remove the axle nut to do this and you can do the same thing on the inboard side if you wish, making the mod reversible. Here's a picture of such adapters.

Best,
Kelly