Anybody have a momo hub adapter they will part with? Would like to find a one piece adapter like Precision Pro-Formance had. https://precisionproformance.com/in2063.php
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Have you already chosen your steering wheel, and if so which one?
I might be able to help but I first need to know the bolt pattern of the steering wheel.
Larry
Doesn’t Wilkinson sell hubs for Momo steering wheels?
I chose MOMO 1968 Racing Heritage wheel. 6 hole bolt circle seems like a momo standard (6 holes on 70mm bolt circle?). I looked on Wilkinson's online catalog and didn't see anything. I will give a call today.
The 2-piece collapsible adapter is easy to find from a variety of vendors and I may go that route. Thought I would ask around first.
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I wasn’t aware that the collapsible hubs were readily available. Are they made by Momo or someone else? I thought Momo stopped making the Pantera and MK1 Capri hubs 25 years ago.
I agree with David.
I have in fact purchased a hub similar to what you pictured, sold as a capri hub, and it is not correct for the early capri steering shaft used on our cars.
if you have in fact found a correct splined hub for our cars it would be a wonderful find. Can you please provide a link?
Larry
Summitt has a momo 4513 or sometimes called a c4513 that has 40 splines. I cannot verify the shaft diameter though. So you're saying this is not correct for early Capris and Panteras? What a PITA this is turning into 
When it comes to hub adapters, close won't cut it. It's correct or it's not. Spline count and pitch is only one part of the equation. You also need it to cancel your turn signals and be the correct distance to the steering column shroud. The correct Momo hub part #'s are 4908 and 4508; the difference being the horn button supplied with the hub adapter. 4908 is supplied with a DeTomaso horn button and 4508 is supplied with a Ford horn button. As both of these items are nearly impossible to find, your only option is a vendor. Wilkinson does carry a hub adapter for Momo steering wheels but it comes with a quick release mechanism and his own horn button. The unit that Bobby Byars (Precision Pro-formance) used to sell is probably available from other Pantera vendors. Try Dennis Quella and Larry Stock. You might want to try IPSCO too. This is the type of part that's right up their ally. Let us know what you find.
Search for a 'hub Boss Adapter for Ford laser Bronco escort' at AliExpress. Perfect fit, I am using this hub together with a standard hub extension (easily available) because you need it longer.
36 splines and 16mm.
Quality is, hmm...not great, but had no issues so far.
Adapter for the following Brands and Cars should fit the Capri mk1 column:
Passt Für BRONCO / F100 F150 F200 F250 F350 1973 - 1982
Passt Für BRONCO / F100 F150 F200 F250 F350 1982-1991
Passt Für CAPRI MK1 1969 - 1974
Passt Für CAPRI SA30 1989-1994
Passt Für CORSAIR 1989-1992
Passt Für CORTINA MK1 - MK2 1965 - 1971
Passt Für CORTINA TC 1971 - 1974
Passt Für CORTINA TD TE (Nicht Ghia) 1974 - 1979
Passt Für KURIER 1983 - 1991
Passt Für ECONOVAN 1980 - 1983
Passt Für ECONOVAN 1983 - 1991
Passt Für ECONOVAN 1994-AUF
Passt Für ESCORT 1300 MK1 1970 - 1974
Passt Für ESCORT 1600, 2000 MK1 1970 - 1975
Passt Für ESCORT 1600, 2000 MK2 1975 - 1982
Passt Für FAIRLANE ZA - ZB 1966 - 1969
Passt Für FAIRLANE ZC - ZD - ZF & LTD 1972 - 1973
Passt Für FAIRLANE ZG - ZH - ZJ & LTD 1973 - 1982
Passt Für FAIRLANE ZK ZL & LTD 1982 - 1987
Passt Für FALCON XK XL 1961 - 1964
Passt Für FALCON XM XP 1965 - 1967
Passt Für FALCON XR XT 1966 - 1969
Passt Für FALCON XW 1969 -1970
Passt Für FALCON XY 1970 - 1972
Passt Für FALCON XA 1972 - 1973
Passt Für FALCON XB XC XD 1973 - 1982
Passt Für FALCON & FAIRMONT XE XF (NICHT Ghia) 1984 - 1988
Passt Für FAIRMONT GHIA XF 1984 - 1988
Passt Für FALCON XH UTE 1996-1999
Passt Für FALCON EF EL
Passt Für FALCON EA EB ED inc XR6 1988 - 1994
Passt Für FESTIVA
Passt Für LASER: ALLE MODELLE 1981 - 1994
Passt Für MAVERICK 1988-1996
Passt Für METEOR: ALLE MODELLE 1981-AUF
Should be easy for you US Guys to find a hub for Broncos and f150s....
Yes, the hub you used is 16 mm with 36 splines. It is often advertised with a part number of R-2. It is common for modern Mazda vehicles.
yes, that hub will slide onto the Pantera steering shaft.
but, that hub does not properly index onto the Pantera shaft taper.
I assume the taper is there for a purpose. I assume when the hub attachment nut is tightened, the intent is for the tapered portions to be forced together for additional friction, so the connection is not fully dependent on the strength of the splines.
here is how the stock OEM hub fits on the shaft.
here is the same hub you used and how it fits onto the shaft.
I have several of those hubs because the seller indicated they were correct for the early capri. The seller obviously was not concerned with the taper.
I do not think that hub should be used on a Pantera.
feel free to convince me that the mismatch is of no concern.
Larry
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Well, it would be great to have more options, but as the Momo Variant is unobtanium...
From my experience I can say that it works fine in my car. May I add, that in the first picture the hub is in full contact with the retaining ring. This indicates that the taper might not be fully forced together with the hub as well. In my opinion the taper helps to center the hub to avoid possible play between the splines and the original steel hub, but not for additional forcefit.
Aftermarket Hubs are softer die-cast.
Reason for splines is to ensure formfit. If the splines do not engage...problem
The second picture IS the hub that you are using. 🤷♂️
The contact ring, as you call it, is not fixed and can slide up and down the shaft.
In this photo, the hub has been slid down the shaft as far as it will go. It stops before engaging ANY of the taper
The hub you are using has ZERO engagement with the shaft taper. Zero engagement.
Just because your hub works successfully does not mean it is correct.
again, I think that mismatch is concerning and I do not think that style hub should be used on a Pantera
remember, everything is always just fine ……..until it isn’t ☹️
Larry
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Sorry, I meant First picture, of course. If the OEM hub hast full contact with the Ring as Seen in the First picture how can you be sure that there is forcefit between the column and the hub due to the taper?
No worries, I presented just another possibility. Everyone should be doing what feels right to do.
OK, in regards to the first picture….
that first picture IS THE OEM HUB mounted on the Pantera shaft. It fits FULLY onto the taper as designed.
and once again, as I just posted,
The ring is NOT fixed to the shaft, it is free to slide on the shaft, and the ring has zero impact on how the OEM hub engages with the Pantera shaft taper.
this photo shows the OEM hub fully engaged onto the taper, note the ring position
I imagine one could get a round chunk of metal, drill a large hole in the middle, and use a steel epoxy to mount it onto the Pantera steering shaft, drill and tap some holes and attach your steering wheel. Pretty sure that would work successfully, ………until it didn’t.
taking short cuts on the steering system does not seem to be advisable.
Larry
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Well, I do not recommend to mount it with epoxy because there would be no form fit...you know, the spline thing ;-)
Wouldn’t the fluid epoxy freely form itself a very tight, zero-gap fit, around the splines, and the taper. 😁😁
I repeat myself once again —-
I do not recommend using a hub that does not replicate the OEM fitment
Larry
Clearly I am learning a lot today. Jerry at PIM quoted me $134.95 + s and I have decided to go with a known vendor. If there is a problem, the vendor will work with me to resolve any issues. He advised it could take a while to get...
I did get a couple of PM offers which I do appreciate the peer to peer reacchng out. Helping to solve problems, share knowledge, and find unobtaniums is why I'm here.
-OP
Did they say why it would take a while to get?
As with all vendor purchases, I strongly advise that payment only be sent when the vendor confirms that he has the item actually ON HIS SHELF, and he is not dependent on obtaining it from a previous supplier.
you really don’t need to ask why I offer this caution, do you?
you have been warned.
Larry
how about this? https://race-shop.si/capri/762...ord-capri-to-72.html
At the risk of being Seen as a know-it-all. Have a Look at the Steering column of a Classic porsche 911, the zenit of German over engineering. Splines with no taper, and a c-clip as end Stop for the hub. 140 USD for a hub Adapter ist ridiculous.
I am too lazy to calculate transmittable torque for a 30x16x36T but it is a lot for mild steel. I am more concerend about the strength of the die-cast material of the hub.
@panterapatt posted:how about this? https://race-shop.si/capri/762...ord-capri-to-72.html
Yes, Luisi part number 2703 is correct. It is in fact the one that I offered in a PM to the OP of this thread.
I purchased one of them sometime ago to confirm fitment. Available to anyone for $100, USA shipping included. Just trying to recoup my initial purchase price
The only concern I have with 2703 is the notch to capture the cancel cam. It looks like it will work, but it does differ slightly from the OEM notch and might require a little modification
it has the correct taper and FULLY indexes with the pantera shaft taper
I guess the OP would rather wait on a vendor that will eventually get around to obtaining one. 🤷♂️
Larry
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@panterapatt posted:
That also looks to be correct.
The only way to be sure is to order one and confirm fitment, which is what I did previously with the Luisi 2703
Larry
I will not be charged until the item is shipped of course. I don't know who his supplier or machinist is or even if it is an in-house made item. That's why Jerry is in the business and I'm not. It's all good.
This one:
https://www.tjamauto.com.au/sa...70---1972-87793.html
looks close to the OEM Momo hub.
Here are some photos of the actual Momo unit. BTW, this hub was OEM on all Panteras after DeTomaso stopped using the steering wheel that came on most '71 through '74 cars.
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I have the Wilkinson version on my car. It looks like the picture above but is a fully cast piece and not collapsible like the above hub is. One thing I did not like about it was the clearance between the bottom of the hub and the shroud around the steering column. This seems to be common if you look at pictures of different cars. I fixed that by machining the bottom of the hub down, extending the taper the amount that was removed from the hub, and then milling the slot back in to cancel the turn signals.
Steve
This is a picture of mine installed. ^
I think this one is a sold piece > https://www.amazon.com/Crowder...Sparco/dp/B010C51O8O
Wilkinson's isn't solid? I got mine from him and it is. That's it^
https://panterapartsusa.myshop...=f13b2e21f&_ss=r
That is my adapter. It is solid aluminum and tapered. I don't know the purpose of the taper since it emphasizes the mismatch at the plastic ignition switch enclosure.
I dealt with that by using a leather upholstery edging material. That you can see in the picture. Without the taper, you wouldn't need it.
I am not sure what you two guys are debating about the seating depth of the adapter significance is. The Momo adapter is not made to fit like the original Capri steering wheel did.
I'm not sure what the significance of that stop and washer is on the Pantera shaft and if you ask me, it has nothing to do with the original Pantera application and is something left over from a previous application and not used at all in this instance.
The Momo adapter is installed one way, regardless of the taper built into the shaft. You tighten down the nut and that's it. The nut will only go so far and it is what holds the adapter in place on the splines against whatever amount of taper it will take. It will not seat fully against the entire taper.
The quick release hub from Wilkinson was mentioned above. I have one and I can tell you it is not the same unit currently being sold by Wilkinson. Mine was $500. It is machined out of solid stainless steel billet and will fit any Momo hub.
It is one of the best things I have done to the car. It makes working under the dash much easier and I have never regretted it.
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Here is a question for someone in the know. First off, I just see the adapter being listed for a 70 to 77 Capri.
The term Mk 1, 2, or 3 is not refered too here. Elsewhere, like in the UK, they do.
So I agree that the Pantera steering column seems to derive from the Mk 1, basically because of the dates of manufacture, but with all of this discussion, what is a Mk 2 and Mk 3?
Larry mentioned that he thought the od of the splines on the steering wheel input changes in 1973 on the Capri. After maket listings for the adapter are not indicating that they agree?
So let's make this a simple question, what is a Mk 3? What is the od of the splines and spline pattern and what Capri does that apply to? Phew. Lots of writing for a somewhat simple question that apparently few have the answer to?
Doug,
MK1 is '70 to '72. That is what matches the Pantera's column. A '73 Capri (Mk2) is different. The correct shaft is 9/16" (14mm) - 36 (splines).
Larry, of course you're correct. Excuse my earlier posting that said 14mm. I was thinking of the u-joints in the column.
David,
you flatter me when you say of course I am correct.
it is a difficult challenge to live up to, especially with senior moments becoming more and more common as I become more and more senior. 😉
Larry
@davidnunn posted:Doug,
MK1 is '70 to '72. That is what matches the Pantera's column. A '73 Capri (Mk2) is different. The correct shaft is 9/16" (14mm) - 36 (splines).
David. Not to be argumentative (just confused) There is a Mk1 in the UK in '68. I'm told by a "Brit" that there is an early, '68-70 Mk1 and a later Mk1, and the shafts are different.
He is saying that a Mk3 WILL fit a Mk1, but not a 68-70 Mk1, and that agrees with nothing being said here.
A US marketed Mk1 is 70-72 but the Pantera isn't built here, it is sourced and built in Europe and developed before a 71 model year.
So I'm still confused. I no doubt was born that way and have always been but that still doesn't solve anything.
What I am thinking is, if my UK source is correct, then what we have is the earliest version, which frankly since the thing is cut up and altered to work in a Pantera anyway, the only important data is that the input and outputs match?
I need to be careful with a logical answer though? It apparently isn't always the correct answer? ...now I just confused myself with that comment. Yikes. I have a headache...need to take a nap.
Larry. Stop it with this talk of Senior Moments please, because...ah, now I forgot what I wanted to say? See...
I got a call from Kirk Evans decades ago concerning loose steering wheel adapters. Two Pantera owners had contacted KIrk, having found that 5/8" splines (US measurement= 0.06250") are almost but not quite equivalent to 16mm (Euro measurement= 0. 6299") with the same 36-spline count. Things go together but the joint feels loose until you tighten the nut. I wrote up our discussion in the POCA Newsletter at the time. So it's in the Archives and may also be here in PI's comm-archives- with which I'm not familiar.
The size difference is about 1/2 the depth of 36-spline engagement depth! So if a U.S made adapter or u-joint is on the low side of tolerance, or the Pantera steering shaft splines are a bit worn (or both), in an emergency at 150 mph or so, a driver can find the steering wheel is no longer tightly connected to the front tires. There should be ZERO slop in the fit of these steering parts! BTW, thats why I don't use the once-popular quick-disconnects- they always felt loose and worrisome to me.
I believe thats also the reason for the taper fit section on the hubs: with it you're not relying just on the splines for a tight, firm connection. When I made my own steering wheel adapter for a larger OD MOMO wheel (to give my little Judy more wheel leverage), I cut apart an old stock steering wheel and used the steel splined center for my adapter to the shaft. No scary things have happened yet in over 30 years of fast mountain touring, open-track or autocrossing. YMMV.
Got mine on eBay. It was Perfect!
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USCDOC13
IMHO, your adapter is not “perfect”.
yes the adapter you are using has the correct diameter and spline count. It does not have the correct taper.
In fact your adapter does not engage ANY of the steering shaft taper.
These hubs were initially sold as correct for different Mazda models. Some of the China-based vendors have discovered the diameter and spline count were found on other vehicle‘s and they are now marketing this splined hub for incorrect applications
The lack of any engagement with the shaft taper is a shortcoming only the China-made adapters consider unimportant.
EVERY reputable splined hub from Momo, Luisi, and other well-known brands WILL correctly engage the Pantera steering shaft taper, because that is how the OEM Ford/capri/Pantera steering wheel hubs are designed.
If you think engaging with the taper is unimportant for your $100,000 car, and the other drivers on the road near you, I would urge you to reconsider your choice.
Larry
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This ist the steerinng column of a Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera. No taper, and the endstop ist a c-clip. German textbook engineering. Torque is transmitted via the splines. I would say that the function of the taper of the Capri column ist to give someb
sort of defined endstop.
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@bluepant posted:This ist the steerinng column of a Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera.
This is a forum for Panteras.
How a steering wheel is attached on a Porsche, a Ford model T, a 1947 Studebaker, or 2023 Maserati is irrelevant to the conversation we are having.
If a splined hub does not fully duplicate the manner of attachment originally designed for the Capri/Pantera steering shaft, it is not correct.
Not. Correct.
End of discussion
Larry