Black stuff in clutch master reservoir

To my eye, the Wilwood clutch master looks identical to my '60-vintage Girling, except possibly for the Wilwood having an anodized 3/4" bore. So its a reliable design and rebuild kits are available athough in 40 years I've not needed one.

Husker, to make the clutch master easier to change, some of us bore a 1" OD hole sideways through the toe-box sheet metal, such that the hole lines up with the clutch master connecting pin. A 1" plastic hole plug from a hardware store closes off the access hole for neatness. We also do NOT use the factory connecting pin with those tiny impossible-to-find-if-you-drop-one circlips. Mine was swapped for a piece of drill rod with a push-pin through each end. YMMD-

Bosswrench,

I took that suggestion from you regarding the push-pin quite sometime ago. Can't imagine dealing with that thing now.

@rlee63a4 posted:

. Of course, connecting the thing under the dash is about the worst job on a Pantera and where bodies, heads, hands, and fingers do not belong...

True story.

I swapped out a bypassing CNC aftermarket clutch master with the new CNC SS master in the parking lot of a lodge in Monterey, without ever getting underneath the dashboard.  

since both masters were dimensionally the same, we left the linkage and push rod in place, and just removed the master.

put things back together, filled the reservoir, and connected the line  

We did not bleed the system.

everything worked just fine and never required any follow up  

you never know what will work unless you actually try  

YMMV

Larry

Does anyone have a photo of the 1" hole in the side of the sheetmetal for the pedal box?

Also, has anyone converted the mounting bolts for the clutch master cylinder into permanent studs that face outward?

Thanks!

No photo right now but its in the upper corner and its 1" so you need not be very precise. I didn't bother to convert to studs in the big aluminum plate. I just clamp a long-nose Vise-Grip pliers to a bolt head and that immobilizes the bolt so the nut comes right off. I'm still flexible enough to reach under the dash with pliers!

@Rob Fridenberg posted:

Ron - any reliability issues with the wilwood? How long have you been using it? Your spare comments make me nervous! Perhaps it is ptsd from the garbage repro parts??!!

No worries. I keep just about a spare of everything not readily available local that could possibly fail during our driving season, especially after 2-3 failing "OEM" clutch masters in this case.

@husker posted:

I have to pull the seat for access. Can't contort like that anymore.

I pull the seat out every time I need to work under the dash, and these days, it takes all the effort I can muster to get up and out the door. I'm sure it's not an age thing...

@bosswrench posted:

...to make the clutch master easier to change, some of us bore a 1" OD hole sideways through the toe-box sheet metal, such that the hole lines up with the clutch master connecting pin. A 1" plastic hole plug from a hardware store closes off the access hole for neatness.

I forgot about boring that 1" hole idea. Have to consider doing that next time. The last time I R&R'd the clutch master, I used a hairpin clip to secure the pin I fed from the other side using needle nose pliers. Having the hole would make that job a lot easier for sure.

My approach to improve on the OEM pivot shafts.

Larry

@stevebuchanan posted:

Also, has anyone converted the mounting bolts for the clutch master cylinder into permanent studs that face outward?

Thanks!

I fabricated this bracket incorporating two studs. I think there are some minor differences in the pedalbox plates but this design or something similar should work for all cars.

Thanks Larry.

Are the bolts tack welded to the bracket?  Is the bracket attached to pedal box to keep it from falling in?

LOL - the fact that the Pantera community has had to develop "quick change" clutch masters is amusing and a reflection of a bad part that most vendors say never leak or fail (or blame it on brake fluid).

On any other car - a clutch master failure is typically a forum discussion after 100k miles of usage - not 100 miles!

Hopefully my clutch master soap opera will be over soon and I can return to thinking about other things.

@stevebuchanan posted:

Thanks Larry.

Are the bolts tack welded to the bracket?  Is the bracket attached to pedal box to keep it from falling in?

Yes, they were eventually tack welded to the bracket. Photo was an in-progress photograph. Nothing holds the bracket in place, but the bolts are long enough you can use a needle nose vice grip to hold a bolt in place during installation process.

Larry

@Rob Fridenberg posted:

LOL - the fact that the Pantera community has had to develop "quick change" clutch masters is amusing and a reflection of a bad part that most vendors say never leak or fail (or blame it on brake fluid).

On any other car - a clutch master failure is typically a forum discussion after 100k miles of usage - not 100 miles!

Hopefully my clutch master soap opera will be over soon and I can return to thinking about other things.

We usually just go from one interesting soap opera to another to keep these beasts alive. I actually enjoy the challenge having always been a car guy.

It's a sick life, but someone has to live it...

Here is another take on Larry's bolt head retainer idea (I welded on a curved piece of steel rod) with the application of a plain pin and clip to retire the circ-clip style pin (the proper sized pin from my junk box just happened to have a hex shaped head).

The next problem you may encounter is the new dust boot on your master is a too tight fit in the hole. Here's a pic of some junk parts and how I reduced the diameter on a bench grinder very neatly, no tears, no cuts.

For the folks that have installed the Wilwood and hogged out one of the mounting holes on the master - is there a reason for not slotting one of the bolt holes on the pedal box? I'd rather do that than modify the Wilwood part.

Thanks

First off, you want to enlarge both holes by 1/8” to keep things centered.

Second, I think it is far better to modify an aftermarket part to allow fitment, instead of modifying the permanent OEM pedal box plate.

My 2¢

Larry

@lf-tp2511 posted:

Second, I think it is far better to modify an aftermarket part to allow fitment, instead of modifying the permanent OEM pedal box plate.

My 2¢

Larry

Agree. Please add my 2¢...

Thanks Larry/Ron - also, good point about enlarging each hole for centering. My thoughts on not modifying the master:

-If there was ever a warranty issue (geez I hope not, but....) there may be some issues returning a 'modified' part with cobbled holes?? Maybe not....

-Modifying the OEM box plate - the small amount of enlarging will be covered by the master, and the holes would still accomodate an original style master if some owner in the future finds a reputable OE type master to use if they are concerned with originality. I would imagine that gasoline will not be available when a quality OE master is finally produced!

Thanks (still waiting on resolution with the vendor....)

The only possible resolution from the vendor that would be to your advantage would be a refund.

I often share with new owners that if you talk to enough people, you will find major complaints about every vendor. Nobody, even our vendors, can bat 1000 all of the time.

The solution I suggest is to do business with all of them and you will have your own good guy and bad guy list after a few years.

in your case, you have a vendor that you might want to add to your bad guy list. 😉

I would just proceed and buy the Wilwood, and if you can get a refund from the vendor, consider yourself very lucky.

Larry

Update - I called Scott at SACC (thanks for the tip Ron) and he had one Wilwood master/line kit left on the shelf so I bought it. I was going to get the master from Summit Racing, but I didn't want to spend 3 weeks sourcing the line and various adapters that are needed. Scott's price was very reasonable for the added parts.  I did have to use my OE clevis as the supplied short clevis did not work with my early '72 (non-effort reduction).

I did end up modifying the pedal box AL plate ilo of grinding on the master. The minor hole changes are not visible and you could still use an OE style master if a future owner wants the OE look. Given all of the changes that are made to Panteras, enlarged holes should not be upsetting to future owners.

I have around 100 miles on the Wilwood and the fluid looks like it just came out of the bottle - as it should. Plus, one less failure mode as the reservoir is integral.

My vendor graciously agreed to provide a refund. They share the same frustrations that we have!

I appreciate the advice/help that everyone provided.

Next project - installing a Fluidyne rad/Flex-a-Lite shroud combo!

Glad to hear it worked out.