body repair questions

Actually, I do have a question that perhaps you could help with.

I bought an L-model fiberglass bumper, and before I test fit it, I had your buddy and mine (Rick P.) paint it.

Then I went to try and mount it, and I found it was about 2" short!

I had read somewhere that you had run across this issue with some bumpers produced elsewhere, and had tips to get it to work...

It seems to me it needs to be split and lengthened...

Anyway - I'd appreciate any advice you might have.

Rocky

One More Picture

Chuck,

FWIW , I am installing a fiberglass L bumper on a yellow car today that I received from Kirk and it fits beautifully.
Not sure how you will make that one fit without major surgery.

Ron

Thanks, Ron -

From what I understand, Kirk's bumpers fit great. There were another lot of bumpers from somewhere else that don't fit.

I am a little disturbed that somebody would sell one without mentioning it, but that's a different story.

I agree with you, it seems like to save this one, it needs to be split & lengthened.

Thanks -

quote:

Originally posted by Rocky:
Actually, I do have a question that perhaps you could help with.

I bought an L-model fiberglass bumper, and before I test fit it, I had your buddy and mine (Rick P.) paint it.

Then I went to try and mount it, and I found it was about 2" short!

I had read somewhere that you had run across this issue with some bumpers produced elsewhere, and had tips to get it to work...

It seems to me it needs to be split and lengthened...

Anyway - I'd appreciate any advice you might have.

Rocky

Rocky/Chuck,

I will do my best to outline what may have happened when you bumper was first made. It starts like this---A bumper gets taken to a fiberglass shop and is instructed to "build be a bumper like this but straight" The shop pulls a splash mold to build a new master plug that is straight. Now the original has shrunk from age, (shrink #1) the splash mold has shrink from the material used, (shrink #2). Next they build a thicker part which also shrinks. (shrink #3) Now the original was warped and most likely did not fit that well when it was new. All of the rubber bumpers required 3 small fasteners per side to pull them into the body for an acceptable fit, right? Now the mold maker is using a master that was never fit to a Pantera body so none of the edges are close to the correct shape, it has shrunk 3 times and is warped on top. He straightens the top, fills in the parking light warps and he now thinks it's a perfect master bumper plug. They build a new mold from the poor fitting plug. (shrink #4) Now the first part is made to the new mold spec. (shrink #5) It gets put up to a car that maybe was crashed in the front and repaired. It fits per crap. but with allot of grinding and work, it will work. The vender complains but the builder says, stick it where the sun doesn't shine. The mold gets paid for and taken to another hop where they make parts that are down the street from the ball park's parking lot. You get one thinking it should fit, paint it and here we are.

This is the correct way. Shrink 1 and 2 are normal. Now you take the warped thicker part made form the splash mold and match fit it to a non molested or crashed body. The builder has to make sure all of the light pod opening clear and the hood will not get nicked when you open it from the side pockets of the bumper. You add the necessary material to the ends so it will fit the body better than original since a two sided hollow fiberglass part has minimal bending ability and should fit with no stress when bolted up. Now you have a properly fitted master plug to build a good mold producing a well fitting part. It will not fit every car perfect but with minor edge fitting, it should fit every car perfect.

In this case, add what you need to the bumper that will make it fit your car or find a place in the archive of Boo-boo parts and look for a plan B.

Please PM me with the info where you got it and I will be happy to inform them that they should consider build a new mold. Sometimes a vender may no realize they have a problem.

Here's a shot of a bumper with only the seams repaired---no edge work at all has been done at this point.

A shot of a bumper installed

A bumper with daytime running lights. I was told this car had some front and damage and assume it was on the left side from looking at the install pictures.

I would be happy to answer all body related question such as door window track and drive adjusting, glass removal, parking light stud repairs, what ever comes up.

Hi Kirk,

Yes please,

My drivers window binds up at about 2/3 of the way up. For about 2 inches then is smooth running too the top.
I've tried adjusting the nut holding the track to the middle bottom of the door. I've also put spacer washers in various spots. The window works but I would love it if I could get it to not bind up. What should I check and in what order should I do the adjustments. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Doug M

Thanks, Kirk -

I can see this will likely turn into an interesting thread.

To answer your question on the source of my bumper... the real answer is "I don't know".

I purchased it as an unfinished (white) fiberglass from a Pantera Owner. I didn't get the history. He said he bought it, and then decided not to install it. So I'm not sure if it was a one-off, or someone's production run.


Follow-Up Question: So are you saying if the bumper fits (generally, but is too short), it's easier to build up the outside edges with material, than it is to split the bumper and fiberglass it up? Thanks.


Regards -

Chuck / Rocky

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M:
Hi Kirk,

Yes please,

My drivers window binds up at about 2/3 of the way up. For about 2 inches then is smooth running too the top.
I've tried adjusting the nut holding the track to the middle bottom of the door. I've also put spacer washers in various spots. The window works but I would love it if I could get it to not bind up. What should I check and in what order should I do the adjustments. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Doug,

The 2 primary reasons the window drags are from the center guide bar not having the original washers re-installed at the top and it's in a bind or the vent window felt channel gets replaced and the new material is not the correct size and/or is was not notched at the top to allow the clearance for the upper mounting bar which is screwed into the top of the door and is welded in the window guide channel. The are numerous other combinations of reasons---those are the primary ones and the window drag will weaken the motor over time---you third reason.

You should pull the window mounts and test slide the window first. If it moves up and down by hand without dragging, the rest is adjustment details. I can go through the process once your sure the glass slides OK.

On possible reason is most of the center bars do not have the same ark as the window and that is critical because it will glide smooth in some areas and bind in others. I bench fit every window now to make sure the guide bar is arked correctly.

Here is a shot of a window bolted to the drive in a rolled down position. I am holding the guide bar down---it was adjusted and greased at this point and is sliding smooth.

Measurement at the bottom.

Measurement at the top. The guide bar is arked 1/2 to much.

A small tweak and guide bar matches the window.

The top measurement.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rocky:
Thanks, Kirk -

I can see this will likely turn into an interesting thread.

To answer your question on the source of my bumper... the real answer is "I don't know".

I purchased it as an unfinished (white) fiberglass from a Pantera Owner. I didn't get the history. He said he bought it, and then decided not to install it. So I'm not sure if it was a one-off, or someone's production run.


Follow-Up Question: So are you saying if the bumper fits (generally, but is too short), it's easier to build up the outside edges with material, than it is to split the bumper and fiberglass it up? Thanks.

The primary visual problem is not having the bumper mounting perimeter on the ends not close to the body in some areas. If the bumper is a bit lower and narrower, once mounted your eye will not go to it but if it has big gaps, it looks nasty. Also the hood hits in the corners unless there are clearance so check that. In your case buy the way this looks, you would be adding a ton of filler to do a match fit so it may be better to split the bumper, slide in a hard wood support between the pieces moving it to the desired width and re-glass the halves. That will add clearance to the hood edges.

Here is a shot of the front split bumper that has beef fitted. You can see the gaps are even.

Another shot. I recommend taking time to make the gaps even so none of the edge surface touches the body. That way you will not have rub marks in the paint and to me it just looks better than any gap filling rubber trim glued on. Early metal bumpers were made to have a trim edge, L bumpers were not.

Hope this helps.

Reply to Doug about window binding:

In addition to Kirk's input, I found a different problem with mine with similar symptoms. My guide bars were not of uniform width top to bottom. The rollers would move smoothly at the ends of travel, and bind in the middle. I came up with a fix for this, but it is not simple. Let me know if you want details.

quote:

Originally posted by Kirk Evans:
A bumper with daytime running lights. I was told this car had some front and damage and assume it was on the left side from looking at the install pictures.

Kirk,
Can an LED strip be added to the front edge of a front metal bumper to act as a turn signal? I have a picture of a modification someone did for the rear bumpers.

Sure...What type of bumper? Eyebrow? Cast aluminum or sheet metal? Here is a shot of some LED dot lights I played with on my splits. Decided to put it on the shelf. There are many light designs that should/could/would work. If you have the cast aluminum bumpers, drilling or cutting holes may be more difficult.

Kirk -

Thanks for the advice.

Chuck/Rocky

quote:

Originally posted by Kirk Evans:
Sure...What type of bumper? Eyebrow? Cast aluminum or sheet metal? Here is a shot of some LED dot lights I played with on my splits. Decided to put it on the shelf. There are many light designs that should/could/would work. If you have the cast aluminum bumpers, drilling or cutting holes may be more difficult.

Original '71 euro style bumperettes.

Are you leaving the bumper's shape alone? If yes, are the original lights still in the holes or have they been replaced? Do you want the LED to go into the front edge of the bumper? If yes, do you want to eliminate the parking light opening? I have quite a few different LED light possibilities.

If you can let me know what your ideas are in a bit more detail, I could possible make some suggestions that will follow your needs. If you want to keep your concept off the radar, shoot me a PM or a note to my AmeriSport email and we'll go stelth.

I have 2 lights that are half as thick as the one below in the L bumper that should fit nicely in the edge of a pre-L bumper-et

quote:

Originally posted by Kirk Evans:
Are you leaving the bumper's shape alone? If yes, are the original lights still in the holes or have they been replaced? Do you want the LED to go into the front edge of the bumper? If yes, do you want to eliminate the parking light opening? I have quite a few different LED light possibilities.

Are you leaving the bumper's shape alone? Yes
If yes, are the original lights still in the holes or have they been replaced? There are no lights. These are euro bumpers which didn't have the lights.
Do you want the LED to go into the front edge of the bumper? Yes
If yes, do you want to eliminate the parking light opening? There is no parking light opening.

Are the chrome? If yes, are you re-chroming? If no, they are rounded edged and painted, correct? You have a pre L car with no light pods in the valance with later eyebrow bumpers also with no light provisions, right? Do you want to use those bumpers or have a set of composite bumpers modified and fitted with some type of LED light? What type of light design do you like or does it matter?

I modified the license plate bracket to fit the license plate then used LED strips above for a license plate light:

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/lp/lp.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Kirk Evans:
Are the chrome? If yes, are you re-chroming? If no, they are rounded edged and painted, correct? You have a pre L car with no light pods in the valance with later eyebrow bumpers also with no light provisions, right? Do you want to use those bumpers or have a set of composite bumpers modified and fitted with some type of LED light? What type of light design do you like or does it matter?

Yes, rechroming.
Correct. There is no front turn signal provision at all.
I would use these bumpers. I like the chrome.
Some sort of LED.

OK so you want to use the early original metal chrome front eyebrow bumpers, modify them to have an integrated LED in the edge and then re-chrome them, correct? Did you fill the valance divot where the original light use to set? There are lights that could be installed on the underside of your bumpers that would not require any chrome work---not a fitted cool custom job but you would not have to cut the bumpers.

Ever consider installing a set of valance light pods and using the original style clear lens lights with the Jon Hass LED conversion? The converted lights can be used as daytime running lights, nighttime parking lights and blinkers that change to yellow when blinking.

I make the pods but you have to open a clearance hole in the valance. Was working on a modified version that would not require cutting the clearance hole---not finished yet.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by comp2:
I modified the license plate bracket to fit the license plate then used LED strips above for a license plate light:

Nice job! Moves the license plate up, hides the LED and gets rid of the factory light bar that is very hard to find and quite expensive these days. A great solution (< congrats.

How about some guidance on a seamless trunk liner install?

All finished.

With a peddle extension installed.

Kirk,
What material did you use?

For the front turn signal and marker lights I used a generic marker light. Actually not the one in the first photo but an LED which looked a little better. I liked the idea of cheap common replacements available everywhere.

The microprocessor based light and turn signal controller I made uses the same bulb for turn and marker. The flash rate also does not care if it's an LED or standard bulb:

When doing the frame rail repairs I made them from 14g. I added extra supports with grooves and holes to drain moisture. I would be jacking on the frame rails like those before me but if some one does latter, I doubt they will hurt the rails.

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/frame/frame.htm

My headlight buckets had individual bolts. It was a PTA. I made a nut plate which made bolting on and adjusting the buckets a lot easier:

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/np/np.htm

Door hangers for body repair.


http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/dh/dh.htm

Removable tie down hooks. Proven to be quite useful when trailering Pantera for interior, getting windshield installed, etc. I have actually left them in as contact points for the ground but I am considering some sort of a skid to make contact before air dam:

(At bottom of page)

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/valance/valance.htm

Home made ZF side mounts:

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/zfmount/zfm.htm