Engine Coolant boiling Noises in the Tank

Sounds to me as if you still have air in the system….  Often boiling occurs when there is not enough liquid too. Cover all the hot spots on the head.

Good luck.

Rocky.

Eugen

bleed again and even one more (is good to have the care "nose up" so air goes to radiator..

one mistake people do is mixing the right position of the hoses (up vs down outlet) from TO the radiator, well guess you are beyond that mistake..

also you could use your infrared temperature  measuring device if there is any UNEXPEXTED hot SOPT..

keep on going..

@rocky posted:

Sounds to me as if you still have air in the system….  Often boiling occurs when there is not enough liquid too. Cover all the hot spots on the head.

Good luck.

Rocky.

Thanks, will do the bleeding again!

@matg posted:

Eugen

bleed again and even one more (is good to have the care "nose up" so air goes to radiator..

one mistake people do is mixing the right position of the hoses (up vs down outlet) from TO the radiator, well guess you are beyond that mistake..

also you could use your infrared temperature  measuring device if there is any UNEXPEXTED hot SOPT..

keep on going..

Thanks! The drivers side tube/hose goes in the lower port of the radiator, I hope, that is correct.
And yes, I have a thermografic camera, I will try to diagnose the heat distribution with that too!

please check the tech notes or write up from George on the tubing. My car is in a remote garage so cannot check quickly.

Need clarity on hot vs cold tube. Hot from pump..Details are on my other PC might check later..

You hear "boiling"?  Are you sure it's not the rad cap releasing coolant into the overflow tank?  it sounds like "boiling" but isn't.  Boiling would suggest loss of pressure (PV=nRT).  

@Seethaler posted:

Thanks! The drivers side tube/hose goes in the lower port of the radiator, I hope, that is correct.

Thats correct, maybe you have cavitation into your engine because the long time of iddling there is not enough coolant flow into your engine.

I remember on a Mangusta this can be a problem.

Do you know for sure you have the right Cleveland thermostat  or the Windsor themostat whit the block off plate ?

is your pressure cap on the pressure tankand not on the overflow tank ?

ignition timing not to early ?

when engine is on teprature , is the top of the radiator hot ? or cool ?

than it can be air into the system.

when everything is OK , for me it will be not such a problem that when a hot engine iddling for a few minutes the prsuure tank boiled a little.

there are some tools when you can check if there is exhaust smell into the pressure tank , that means a failed head gasket.

Simon

@panterapatt posted:

You hear "boiling"?  Are you sure it's not the rad cap releasing coolant into the overflow tank?  it sounds like "boiling" but isn't.  Boiling would suggest loss of pressure (PV=nRT).  

I agree with this.

Simon

To properly bleed your Pantera's cooling system...

1. Jack the REAR of the car up as high as you can.
2. Remove the cap on the pressure/swirl tank and top off the coolant.
3. Open the bleed valve on the radiator and allow any air to escape.  Hold a rag there to avoid a mess.  When it stops bubbling and is mostly water, close the valve.
4. Top off the pressure tank again if necessary and put the cap back on.
5. Start the engine, let it idle and rev it a few times for about a minute. Then shut it off.
6. Return to Step 2 above, and repeat 3-4 times.

This should clear out all the air trapped in your engine.

I am presuming that you have pressure tested the cap and verified you have the correct one for your tank. There is the possibility that you have the wrong cap and/or the cap will not hold pressure

Gary Hall used to tell me that some cars he serviced needed to be held up in the back and almost literally stood on their nose to get the air out.

I bought a Stant pressure tester kit and found that in pressure testing the system, it would make it sound like it was boiling because it was forcing the trapped air out.

Incidentally it doesn't matter if the cap is brand new. You need test it right out of the box. To me it looks like there is a failure rate of around 1/3 brand new or more correctly stated, bad right out of the box.

You also need to have the temperature sender in the engine block and not in the swirl tank.

The stock water tank neck on the swirl tank is “Euro” design (deeper), and US radiator caps won’t seal well.

Rocky

Every Pantera owner needs one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/OEMTOOL...77-9bc0-4513d670b6bc

It pulls a vacuum in your cooling system then fills it, completely free of any air bubbles. No more jacking up the back of the car and bleeding air bubbles from the rad.

Agreed David.  Does this kit fit the water neck on our Panteras?  I see this kit which is a sheet load more expensive has a lot of adapters I will never use!  

https://www.amazon.com/Astro-7...&sr=8-4&th=1

thanks, Lee

I have an aftermarket billet filler neck on my tank, so I don't know, first hand, that it fits our filler necks. TBS, I've recommended this unit to many Pantera owners and the feedback is always good, so I assume it fits! This is the very unit Snap-On used to sell, for triple the price.

excellent.  thanks

If you don't mind modifying your coolant tanks, I can confirm that George P.'s self bleeding mods do work as intended.

Absolutely agree with David. Once it’s done, you never think about it again (except to brag about how well it works)!

Rocky

@panterapatt posted:

You hear "boiling"?  Are you sure it's not the rad cap releasing coolant into the overflow tank?  it sounds like "boiling" but isn't.  Boiling would suggest loss of pressure (PV=nRT).  

I am not sure. It made a real loud gargling sound, the fluid was definitely in motion for quite a while.

@simon posted:

Thats correct, maybe you have cavitation into your engine because the long time of iddling there is not enough coolant flow into your engine.

I remember on a Mangusta this can be a problem.

Do you know for sure you have the right Cleveland thermostat  or the Windsor themostat whit the block off plate ?

is your pressure cap on the pressure tankand not on the overflow tank ?

ignition timing not to early ?

when engine is on teprature , is the top of the radiator hot ? or cool ?

than it can be air into the system.

when everything is OK , for me it will be not such a problem that when a hot engine iddling for a few minutes the prsuure tank boiled a little.

there are some tools when you can check if there is exhaust smell into the pressure tank , that means a failed head gasket.

Simon

Thanks! And yes, right, brand new Cleveland T-stat with the block off plate. The pressure cap is on the header tank (the thank more to the rear end), the cap without pressure on the overflow tank.
Timing is also correct and the radiator was completly hot, the temp switch in the radiator switched on the fans.

@panteradoug posted:

I am presuming that you have pressure tested the cap and verified you have the correct one for your tank. There is the possibility that you have the wrong cap and/or the cap will not hold pressure

Gary Hall used to tell me that some cars he serviced needed to be held up in the back and almost literally stood on their nose to get the air out.

I bought a Stant pressure tester kit and found that in pressure testing the system, it would make it sound like it was boiling because it was forcing the trapped air out.

Incidentally it doesn't matter if the cap is brand new. You need test it right out of the box. To me it looks like there is a failure rate of around 1/3 brand new or more correctly stated, bad right out of the box.

You also need to have the temperature sender in the engine block and not in the swirl tank.

Thanks, it is a brand new cap from a US Pantera vendor and it holds pressure. When I open it and the engine is warmed up it releases air, but of course I don't know how much pressure it holds exactly.

@panterapatt posted:

Agreed David.  Does this kit fit the water neck on our Panteras?  I see this kit which is a sheet load more expensive has a lot of adapters I will never use!  

https://www.amazon.com/Astro-7...&sr=8-4&th=1

thanks, Lee

I bought the kit with all of the different adapters, which now allows me to use it on all of my vehicles. Pulling a vacuum on the coolant system before filling it is the way to go. That kit can also be used to put pressure on your system which will allow you to check for leaks. In my opinion, if you own a Pantera, then this a tool that you should have.

@Seethaler posted:

Thanks, it is a brand new cap from a US Pantera vendor and it holds pressure. When I open it and the engine is warmed up it releases air, but of course I don't know how much pressure it holds exactly.

A pressure testing kit will allow you to check it's capacity. You want 15 psi which likely it is not. Probably 12 psi.

I agree with JFFR as an "essential Pantera tool" but in all honesty the availability of these affordable kits is a relatively new development.

They just make the coolant level a non-issue instead of an epic trial of courage previously.

Just change the cap you'll be fine. Water boils at 212 as you know. Every cap 'gives' you pound  you 3 degrees above 212 before overheat/boil over. For example a 1 pound cap gives you an additional 3 degrees. 15 pound cap= 45 degrees above 212, that gives you 257 degree coolant before you get into trouble. This is why guys get scalded so badly, 257 immediately explodes in the atmosphere to instant 212. Anyway, fill it. bleed it recap it with a vendor supplied car or a correct one you'll be fine.  Air is getting in. the water is stuck at 212 and that won't work.

If that doesn't do it you need a new tank. There are two mating surfaces there that must remain true.

I would think if the cap and neck were not sealing there would be coolant escaping during normal operation.

Replace the cap & tank it solves the problem 8 out of 10 times. That is unless someone has torched the head gasket or it was installed improperly.

You guys were absolutely right! Today I made some fittings to pressure test my cooling system with the pressure cap installed. And surprisingly it did not hold pressure, and I mean it did hold absolutely zero pressure! I purchased the expansion tank cap at a well known dealer - who by the way sold me the completely wrong t-stat as well! You got to be kidding me - I buy at a specialized Pantera dealer and get 2 products that are not correct. Very frustrating!

And yes, the tank is o.k - I mounted the old cap and  this one holds pressure as it should be!

Thanks for all the help!

Oh gosh, not sure who that 'specialized Dealer' was, not asking, but for sure the wrong parts did ~not~ come from Pantera Miami!

Please tell us which vendor sold you the wrong parts. We all need to know who NOT to deal with or refer people to.

Buy your new thermostat from T. Meyer.  Then you’re assured to have the right one. If you still have the European neck on your pressure tank, just buy a new cap with a pressure rating about 10 lbs higher than what you need. Now would be a good time to take the tank to a rad shop and have the correct filler neck installed. The overflow tank should have a zero pressure cap. Perhaps your caps simply got reversed.

Exactly right.  The community needs to know who is selling such Sxxx to people.  I guess they think we are stupid or something.  

Thanks, and no, the caps were not reversed - I bought both caps from the vendor, they are totally different. The new one not holding any pressure is rated for 16 PSI.
And it's not from Pantera Miami :-)

For those who were asking about the vendor - PMs sent :-)

Hi just reading through this thread, would you kindly pm me the vendors who supplied the incorrect parts please as I am having similar problems and my system is all new. Thanks in anticipation R

PM sent

PM sent!

@davidnunn posted:

Please tell us which vendor sold you the wrong parts. We all need to know who NOT to deal with or refer people to.

Buy your new thermostat from T. Meyer.  Then you’re assured to have the right one. If you still have the European neck on your pressure tank, just buy a new cap with a pressure rating about 10 lbs higher than what you need. Now would be a good time to take the tank to a rad shop and have the correct filler neck installed. The overflow tank should have a zero pressure cap. Perhaps your caps simply got reversed.

Why not just buy a Euro Cap? Maybe Jag or Fiat?