Erica needs to get hosed.....

PanTTera...
I see that it offers an 11% increase in pump speed...... I found one of the larger aluminum crank pulleys in the stuff that came with the car....but not messing with belts at this time....already can't find what fits right for the AC! Couldn't find the larger alt pulley that I wanted....and had to custom machine the stock one I did find! Trying to stay out of rabbit holes.......!

This pump has two more impeller vanes than normal....about a 20-30% increase in pumping power.....

Less weight?

LIV1S: The small 90 degree pipe is on back order..... The "other" 90 degree pipe is the T-stat pipe...more like an 88 degree pipe (which it should!)....and it just showed up at my door about 2 hours ago!

Gonna forgo test fitting it tonite....will wait until tomorrow!!!

Ciao!
Steve

Two new muffler tailpipe hangers mounted up today!

Had two new AC lines fab'd up and installed them!

Need to find a shop that can crimp a new connection on my pump Suction line "in the car"......otherwise will find myself tearing the rest of the car apart to get the one connection off of the danged evaporator....

Gonna go mount my new T-stat pipe from Wilkinson! It fits! WAY too shiny however.....for this car!!!!

This pipe has proper bend to bring it around more parallel with valve cover...to fit better to the pressure tank! Finally!

Ciao!
Steve

New reworked T-stat from Marlin Jack. Nice work!!! Goop and a gasket, here we come!!!

Steve

thanks for sharing....

did you get the restrictor plate to go with the thermostat.

...already had it in place! Thanks!

Just picked up some pieces to make a nice heater hose filter too! Hose shop had a bunch of brass and some sexy stainless filters with a gasket rated up to 212F, which should be plenty for the heater circuit. Figured after all of this turmoil with my plugged tubes/hoses, it's the least I should do!

Top components in pic are from local hose shop.

Lower piece is filter from online hardware company. To make this work in car, still need pieces from top line of parts! Need left and right hose fittings, and second piece from right.

Buying lower piece, which has a long cone fine filter in it, AND the three other pieces, pretty much doubles the cost of just doing it with the hardware pieces. Sure the screen filter is a little more coarse, but it will keep the intended large bits from getting into the heater core!

Don't touch that dial!
Steve

OK, it's been almost a month since I posted last!!! Have been a very busy beaver......

First most....Thank-you to all of you that offered advice and encouragement along the way!!!!


Report card:
-New stainless tubing bits and rubber splices are installed.
-New water pump
-Heater hoses run and filter installed and restrained. Water valve cleaned out...core flushed.
-Wiring is all sorted out and retained safely!
-New AC pump is in. Needs to get one line a new fitting on the end......to be continued!
-Headers and exhaust pipes are now ceramic coated and installed! (Should have done this right away when I started!) One pipe contacts axle at full suspension rise...but it did that before...
-New battery is installed.....
-Wiring tested with amp meter before connecting battery....found out that my e-flasher switch is still bad!!! Imagine that....I didn't work on it yet.....! Sure looked funky on the digital volt meter! Jammed a hammered out piece of tie wrap in the switch....OK fixed. Now no current draw!!!!
-Installed new motor mount rubber biscuits....to try and lift engine just a tad to increase header clearance on LH side to engine chassis stand-off. I think you'd need a set of feeler gauges to see if it did much....!!! But it did...just a lot of work with headers in place! Should have done this while headers were getting coated!!! Duh!
-Dorked up left rear deck hinge area by trying to replace deck shocks with new. New ones had more pressure than the same old rear ones....and the sheet metal where the hinge attaches started giving away! Evidence of prior repair..and rust..... Fix is gonna be ugly....just have to accept that some repaint will be likely!!!! Ugh! Will work on this once car is back down on terra-firma!!!

Vacuumed up the excess baking soda in the front boot carpeting from the battery explosion. Came out fairly well all considering! Used a tooth brush to gently persuade the stuff out....

Got the hose out and filled up the cooling system...vented the radiator a couple of times.....T-stat has a vent hole drilled in it....so system self bled while I dorked with some stuff.....

Connected the battery, put the floor jack under the rear right upright to keep the axle from spinning on the exhaust pipe....topped off the water one more time, and ready to try starting!

Pumped the carb....turned key...more pumping...more key....more pumping.....more key...did I fry something????..then a slight hint of ignition!!! ....more pumping....more key and she lives!!!!!

Needed to "run in" the ceramic coating in two stages. 5 minutes...cool down....then 10 minutes.....cool down. Done.

Pipes are getting hot that need to get hot....no deep percolating heard in engine....temp up at 190 (180 t-stat)....but water looks like baby poo!!! Everything in system is new except block....so this is coming from engine.....
Turned the idle up just a tad....

Proceeded to put wheels back on car with new 3/4" lug nuts. The 13/16" ones were too tight for my comfort..socket to wheel clearance is the issue.

Set the car back down with wood blocks under wheels...for now. Still have RH fender shield off....in case I need to get in there....but seems good.

Tomorrow: warm it up a tad and dump water from system. Cold outside.....need warm parts to work on....! Refill....run some more....see how it looks!!!! Dump again if necessary...... Eventually will dump and refill with some coolant.....

Need to put new seal on engine cover and then can seal that up, perhaps even put firewall cover back in place! What a concept!!!

Will Erica's name be changed to Susan soon? Stay tuned!!!

Again, thanks for the help with all!
Ciao!
Steve

Coated exhaust and muffler. Polishing chrome tips out was a bit of a bugger. Polish on, polish off.....more polish on and on and on!

If you are going to buy new headers and exhaust, get them with the ceramic coating already on them! You will pay more but be a happier camper from the get go!!! Once that cheap ass back paint burns off.....you gots nuttin'! My $.03.....

Steve

Steve,

quote:

...but water looks like baby poo!!!

With repeated normal heating and cooling cycles of the coolant, sediment will accumulate in the bottom of the overflow tank. Periodic cleaning / flushing of this sediment should be a maintenance item.

Cleaning can be done by removing the small overflow hose from the top of the swirl tank and extending it into a bucket. Add water (via a garden hose) and continue until discharged water runs clear.

Or, remove the overflow tank from the car and clean.

quote:

..T-stat has a vent hole drilled in it...

I believe that the 330 series T'stat has an air bleed vent in it already. I know that the 333 series did. See pic below.

John

John,

I guess that makes me the "maintenance man"!!!

I thought that hole in my Robert Shaw T-stat was (previous) owner modified!!!! It looked sorta DIY vs a production thing..... OK then! Good to know that others are benefiting from this mod without even knowing perhaps!

Well, I gotta say that it works!!!! I filled the coolant system in about 5 minutes....bled it out a couple of times via the front vent on the radiator....fired it up and added very little water after that!!!! PLUS I had the front of the car ever so slightly higher than the (edit!) rear of the car, which is totally backwards from recommended procedure (of course there weren't vented t-stats when that was written!!!!) and all seemed well!

After running the header break in procedure of 5 minutes/cool/10 minutes/cool, the pressure tank was down about an inch give or take an inch.....and water was circulating well!

I cleaned the tanks out when I was doing all the pipes and hoses.....so all good there.

What I think I will do, is warm it up just a bit, then dump via the large tubes up front.....

Hmmmm do I take a shower now, then another iron oxide bath...and another shower?????

Cheers!
Steve

Steve,

You is da (maintenance) man !!!

Given your description of the coolant's "color", you most likely have fine sediment in the engine block that will slowly "reveal" itself over time, and finally settle in the bottom of the overflow tank.

Question: If you have "...the front of the car ever so slightly higher than the front of the car...", how does that work?? LOL

John

Ooops! You are right, that was most difficult!!!!

....edit needed!!!!

Steve

Steve, if you must, pulling the whole dashboard out to access the AC evaporator takes only an hour or so (4 screws, tach & glove box removal). Reinstalling takes a day or so.... I've had ours out twice. There's a How-To article in the POCA Archives.

If you're gonna use r-134a freon, you should R & R the evaporator valve under the dash near the glove box (accessible). The OEM valve is calibrated for R-12 so freon flow is less, and usually has a small cone-screen inside the 'to' line leg of the valve, that is plugged solid with rubber flakes & mung but is cleanable once hooked out. Most guys leave it out to increase r-134a flow a bit more. New valves don't come with the screen.

You should also R&R the dryer can in back regardless of which freon you select, as age & flow reduces the dessicant pellets to an awful looking black sludge. And finally, many owners add a compressor overpressure safety shut-off switch. Ours blew an A/C line outside of Bakersfield that oiled down the inside of the windshield at 90 mph & sounded like a rifle shot....

Jack,

Not looking to R&R evap at this time....just need to get one hose end replaced (hopefully in car!!) and THEN I can suck down system and see if I need to R&R evap....!

Using R12.

Did the Valve screen thing.....posted elsewhere....???? Found some chips and dust...

New dryer is waiting for new connector....not installing it until system is "closed" again!

Pressure switch: Have port....no switch at the moment.
Cheers!
Steve

SANITY CHECK REQUIRED! Am I bassackwards here?

OK warming up car to dump water.....

Hot water is entering lower port in radiator....

Shouldn't this be entering the upper port...gets cooled....drops.....exits colder to water pump via lower tube????

What did I mess up or miss or nothing?
Steve

Steve,

You have the piping correct. The Pantera is not the same as other cars...in at the bottom, out at the top.

John

Whew! ....was beginning to thing I had lost MORE brain cells.....!

Grazi!!!!!
Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Mangusta:
Jack,

Not looking to R&R evap at this time....just need to get one hose end replaced (hopefully in car!!) and THEN I can suck down system and see if I need to R&R evap....!

Using R12.

Did the Valve screen thing.....posted elsewhere....???? Found some chips and dust...

New dryer is waiting for new connector....not installing it until system is "closed" again!

Pressure switch: Have port....no switch at the moment.
Cheers!
Steve

Hey Steve,

If you still don't have a/c hoses made, I can bring my crimping tool to the Super Bowl party in January(?) and we can make them then. You just need your hoses cut to length and the ends you need crimped on. The tool doesn't get used otherwise. I'm still on the fence about converting mine or staying with R12. I have two cans of R12 on my shelf just in case.

Bayani

Update time.....lots going on....

Thanks to Bayani, the remaining AC line has a new "tubo" (O-ring) type connector on it and is connected up.

Futszed around with loose connections on drier unit...left them loose..duh! One slow leak on new hose going to condenser. Eventually got vacuum to hold overnite!

Charged system only to find out that the expansion valve isn't working right!

NOTE: System will take about 3-1/2 to 4lbs of R12. No where is this stated in any Ford documentation for the Pantera, NOR in any TSB's.

Ordered two new ones, should be here tomorrow. Why two? They are so steenking cheap....$12 or so....

Moral of this story? If your AC system hasn't been used in 20 years or so, REPLACE ALL THE CHEAP PARTS WHILE IT IS APART!!! What are the cheap parts? Drier unit and expansion valve are main two cheapo items. If your system has O-rings you may consider doing all of them also.

Next on list, is the "easy" hoses....which is 1)hose from pump to rear of car, connection at top of condenser, and 2) the other is the short hose from drier to condenser lower connection.

Next job is dumping water one final time out of cooling system and refilling with antifreeze mixture.

If I can keep the engine cool and the passengers cool, I can put a bow on this job!

Then on to pesky decklid hinge.....gack!!!

OH, and double check relays for fans....seems like TSB's say that both fans should be on by operating temps.....but I have only one at about 190ish (idling while charging AC.) Not sure when this car is set up to have second fan come on. Will rig up some jumpers to test relays.....and mirrors so I can work upside down...!!!!
Ciao!
Steve

Erica is still being Erica.....true to her namesake.......

I now have joined the ranks of the "just wanted to change the expansion valve.....and CRACKED THE DAMNED EVAP TUBE" crowd!!!! AAAAHHHGGGG!!!!

Will it ever end....so close, but no Emmy!!!

The above statement sez it all.....working to get that danged connector loose on the evap valve and trying to get a 1" wrench on that fitting was the demise.... I was carefully wiggling to get some wrench in place and the tube moved a bit....a bit toooo easily!

I thought, OK, hopefully I just bent the tube a bit....it's supposed to be thin material.... Well it is thin material and as I didn't want to believe.....the tube cracked..... Vacuum and pressure testing revealed the bad news.

No where in any documentation that I read, did it mention that that little round end piece on the AC housing came off! (It has the flapper in it to divert air....cable operated from the dash.) Would maybe have helped me....but too late now.....in the notes!!!!

I have been doing this ENTIRE job bass ackwards..... Instead of starting with the heater stuff, I should have jumped right to the EVAP and AC stuff...... that way, I wouldn't have had to waste so much time with the heater core clean out etc, in the event that this unit got busted....

Lesson learned is a repeat.... "replace all the cheap stuff while you are in there"! Drier is a given, Expansion Valve is the crap shoot. BUT on a car whose A/C hadn't been operative in perhaps two decades, I should have known better....but then I'm not a heavy AC mechanic either! I was hoping for the best.....got the worst!!!

I've heard good about Wilkinson's "improved alloy" unit, but not as it directly fits into a later car. (1974) The last thing I want, is to have to change connectors on anything.....! Or the heater valve.....again....!

Murphy's law sort of dictated that this would happen. I just filled the car with a 50/50 mix of coolant.....now I need to drain it out again, and drain the heater tubes to avoid getting coolant all over the carpets.

I've been using Dailey's (PanteraPlace) Evap' removal procedure as guidance, but it is penned for an early car, early dash. Nothing really applies exactly the same. But I have clues from this site, like "six bolts/fasteners" hold the dash in place....got them.....but getting the lower instrument cluster out of the way is not covered......sooooo, I'm drudging thru it, taking notes and will try and put together an updated procedure when I'm done.

SO, while I have the dash off, I will get at the pesky emergency flasher button with a new one, AND fix the wiper switch (what for???) as the switch puked it's contents all over the floor when I pulled it out.....

Erica strikes again!!!

Found a mystery under dash switch that switches nothing.......perhaps an old antenna? Can probably remove it or find some other reason to leave it.....

Next on the job, is dropping the steering column, and getting the speedo/tach units pulled, wires documented.....and hopefully lift the upper dash section out tomorrow! Supposed to rain buckets here, all day Monday, so good time to work on this job.

This job's uglier than a huge sale on a hot day at Walmart.....!!!

Cheers!!!
Steve

OK, upper dash section is finally out!

Jack, I think it takes an hour just to get that stupid excuse for a glove box out!!! Who designed that fastening system? What a joke!!!

I'd go search the POCA archives, but the article is probably written for an early car, and from what I have seen trying to use Dailey's procedure against a later car, is fairly useless, more like a suggestion!

What was previously reported as 6 screws or fasteners to retain a late dash is incorrect. It is actually 8. Two on each end of dash (one is hidden by the A-pillar molding) but you need to take the A-pillar moldings off, which is four tiny #1 Phillips head screws....to I guess technically we're up to 16 now.

Then there is getting the front lower console section ("flare" as some call it) loose and moved back....out of the way.... which requires the console rear section to be lifted out of the way (that is two screws at the bottom front edge, and 4 bolts holding the shifter plate in place...) now we're up to 22 fasteners. A couple of misc screws on the bottom of the flare section need to be removed, and the 4 screws retaining the dash courtesy lights need to be pulled to get the wiring disconnected so you can lift the dash out neatly.

Then let's not forget the 4 thumb nuts that hold the tach and speedo in place....Of course my car is missing one of these thumb style and they substituted and actual 7 or 8mm nut....sheesh...that was a beeeeeeeyattccchhhhh to get out of there.

So, I've lost track of the fastener count at this point....heading past 30.... Have them all "punched" into a piece of cardboard along with wiring notes (colors) and such for easier reassembly! HAH!!! Nothing easy about this....only after about the 3rd time..... CHECK ALL YOUR DASH LIGHTBULBS NOW!!!!

You really need baby arms and fingers with Conan's strength in the fingers to get some of this stuff loose! I am truly surprised that I didn't a) scratch the heck out of my arms drawing lots of blood, or b) dislodge or break something very expensive and fragile behind the dash.....but then I need to put it all back in yet!!! ....AND I'm not done with pulling the EVAP box yet.....PLENTY of time to go further down the rabbit hole...!

OH, the drawings show one piece gauge retainers for the thumb nuts to work against to hold these two large units in place. They lie!!! There are four small clampy pieces that you need to finagle back into place and then find the studs.....and then find the studs again with lock nuts....and again with the knurled finger nuts....and again and again when you drop said nuts.....and again....for good measure!

I WAS pleasantly surprised to see large connectors on the wiring for the two large gauges and the emergency flasher wiring. There are a few more of these scattered about also....

I found a jumper on what appears to be the wiring for the GEN lamp...which is missing.....and am presuming that this is due to the one wire (actually 4 wires) alternator conversion no longer needing the lamp function. Look at ammeter you dummy! The idiot light isn't working! Get it...idiot light...dummy idiot light? OK, it's late.....

Looks like I could use a "foam seal kit" for the evap housing..... Any comments on the quality of the offerings by vendors????

OK, fingers are bleeding from typing....surprised they have any skin on them from today's adventure!

Tomorrow: Drain the fresh antifreeze out of the system, disconnect heater lines and blow coolant out.... remove AC lines....and hopefully get EVAP housing on the work bench!!! No more busted parts please.

Ciao!!!
Steve

Steve,
Did you install heater shut off valves in the engine compartment? If so then you don't need to drain the whole system. Just close the valves and disconnect hoses from heater side and drain. Good luck, been there, done that.
What are you using as a replacement evap/heater core? I have installed units from three different vendors and had to modify the cutouts in the box as the tube locations did not line up. Don't try to bend the tubes to fit the box or you will be right back where you started.
All the vendor supplied coils I have installed have been built to use the H block style expansion valve as opposed to the angled valve. I do not know if they offer the original style connections. The block style uses different hose connections also.
I would also suggest upgrading the squirrel cage fans to a higher capacity as the stock unit does not move a lot of air. I got mine from Hall years ago, don't know if they still have them or not.

Forest

If by the "foam seal kit" you mean the two 4" square foam rings that go between the backside of the dash and the heater box outlets to seal hot or cold air coming out, I made mine from 1" thick foam. There are lots of places that sell foam sheets; get foam that is rot-resistant or you may be doing this again, when you're even less flexible than you are now! Cut foam more-or-less to size with scissors &/or an electric turkey-trimmer knife. Try not to be too critical of the outrageously poor fit between the heater box outlets & the dash face holes; misalignments of around 1" are common but not easily corrected.

You're right- the '71-'72 dash & console is quite different than the later ones; your '74 has a fresh air valve, a flexible supply hose & valving that's missing on earlier cars. That's all the stuff behind the glove box; early-car owners have nothing behind the glove box but also no fresh air source, except for VERY early cars that DID have a different type of fresh air source. Welcome to Italian Engineering!

The late steel heater core/evaporator box is also very different, as are the two paper defroster flex hoses. Maybe you should document the differences w/photos & send it to me as a Tech Newsletter article, as a public service?

The only problem I had on early dash R & Rs was inserting the two illuminated rocker switches; the switches go in from the front but the bulb & socket clips-on the switch body and will not fit thru the dash hole. So they must be clipped on after the switch is in place. Which even for long arms & fingers, is near-impossible, at least the first time around (maybe the 4th, too).

Interesting note: the washer switch is powered from the wiper switch via a spade-lug & a short wire. There are three choices of lug on the wiper switch to choose from and two will not work correctly. This is not shown on the schematic. Good luck.

OK, today was "look! Shiny rock!!" day in the garage.... Was supposed to be getting the AC box out of the car...but got side tracked on the lighter revamp (see other post), and a problem that I mentioned in my very first post on this thread!

The Emergency Flasher Switch....it puked it's function on the first day I parked it in the driveway.

Well, being the ever so "how does it work" kinda guy.....and thinking "well, you can't dork it up much worse than it already is, I took the switch apart! With a couple of small screwdrivers, I was able to eventually get the 6 small tabs finagled (that's a word?) out of the slots they were stuck in....and the thing popped apart! Pretty simple device. One moving part and one stationary...and one piece to hold the two pieces together....oh, and a spring!

The stationary piece has a metal arm with a pin in it. The pin is supposed to ride in the recess of the plastic casting which is on the push button section of this thing. It is one of those maze type deals where when you push the button in, the pin is supposed to catch and hold the button section from popping out. Push the button again, and the pin is guided to another path in the casting and then allows the button to pop out. Push and repeat......in, out, in, way out....

I'd always heard about this little "pathway" in the button section getting mucked up and damaged. Well, mine was not damaged! There appeared to be just enuf play in the arm with the pin....to allow the pin to jump out of the groove it was supposed to stay in!

I put a little bend in the metal arm, to force the pin further in towards the center of the assembly. Gotta be careful as I think this is a cast piece of metal....has that look about it...and it won't take much...but apparently a little is OK!

Check out picture....sorry for the blurry.... fought with my auto focus and this was best I could get of this channel for the pin to ride in.

Steve

Here is a shot of the metal piece with the pin in it that I bent ever so slightly. You can see the spring also.

Snapped it all back together, put the wires back in place, plugged it in to the dash wiring harness pushed button to release it...and voila!!! Blinking lights!!!!

One good thing out of this (I keep saying this with this car....!!!!) is that the yellow wire spade connection, which is apparently the main power in or out or something important, was found off of the spade connection once I got the dash out! Very loose when I plugged it on! I tried to pinch the curled section of the female clip to be more tight on the male spade...and promptly broke both of the crimps off! No pliers required! Broke them by finger power! Needless to say, it would seem that this connector had some heat on it to cause this metal to crystallize!

I put another connector on the wire....and we're all set!

HERE IS ONE THING I LEARNED while working on this dash about this switch. OK two things...four things....

1) This switch is the one with the resistor on the back! If anyone is looking to buy one....

2) This switch will NOT come out of the dash without pulling all of the wire connections off. Or at least half of them. The wires are about 6 inches long, and terminate in a HUGE red connector. Even IF you could get the front portion of the switch and wires out of the dash, this large red connector is NOT coming out. Forgettabout it!!!

This of course means that you have been able to get your hand up in the dash to get the large plastic retaining nut loose....

To me, there is no physical way possible to put this switch back in the dash, without removing the dash!

To pull the switch, you loosen the nut. The nut is too small to fit over the spade connectors around the perimeter of the back of the switch. So you muscle it out...knocking off all of the wire connections, which is gonna be TOUGH cuz there are 7 wires +1 wire in the middle, that are really really tight connections!

When the switch finally comes thru the hole, the plastic nut and the thin lock washer of sorts, fall down the rear of the dash most likely if you are fortunate, and all of the 8 wires scatter....and retreat into the dash.

That was the easy part!

Now how to get it all back in place?! Put the new or repaired switch into the hole, round up the thin washer and the plastic nut, and work to get them back up inside the dash and onto the rear of the switch. Watch out for cramps in your fingers and forearm, lower back, neck... from being in very odd contortions to get at the rear of the switch.

Now once the switch is tight, you can begin to guess which of 8 wires you are holding in your fingers and which connector you are putting it back on! Seriously! You cannot physically see the wires any longer, nor can you see where you are putting them.

I guess if you have removed your steering column, you might be able to see.....but I doubt it......

So, now is when you go grab the .38 revolver and unload it into the driver's floor pan!!!!!!

Once you calm yourself with 3 or 4 beers and a half a pack of cigarettes, begin procedure to remove the dash pad/top..........32 fasteners later.....ba dump bump!!!!

3) the red lens does NOT come off of this particular push button to allow changing the bulb. When it burns out, replace the switch.

4) the front bezel of this switch does NOT unscrew to allow you to drop the switch out the back and down and out.......ever.

I am not sure where I read about #3 and #4, but certainly it was copied from another car shop manual and used for filler in the Pantera manual.....!!!!! OK, it was perhaps true for the EARLY cars....but I have no idea when this new style switch (with the resistor on the rear) was implemented....nor do I know if there were multiple versions of early switches.....

I do think these later switches ended up in BMW's of some sort...... There is an SAE 72 number on the bezel indicating part was intended/designed/approved for 1972 vehicles of some sort....

SOOOOO while I had the dash out.....I put my newly repaired switch back in the hole, tightened the big plastic nut, verified that the switch was oriented properly and not at an annoying angle, and then plugged all the wires back onto the rear of the switch. Wow, that was easy!!!!

Where was I......oh, yah....evaporator housing...... Started draining the freshly installed antifreeze mixture out of the system so that I can disconnect the heater lines without dumping 2 gallons of coolant all over the carpet! I'm not a hose squeezer......sounds like a good way to damage new hoses.....but I know it can be done with the right tools.

Onwards!
Steve

The 1970's BMW 2002 uses the same switch as the our cars

SAE QC 72 DKS (late) PN 61 31 1 356 193 - 8 pin with resistor.

The model I was looking at ar a local Cars and Coffee had one hanging out as he had the center console out. I found out BMW uses a cylinder plug on the wire harness to connect the switch. I have yet to find a source for the plug though. Check out the picture. It would have made servicing the switch on our cars a lot simpler. You still would have to reach behind the dash to loosen/remove the nut so you can pull the switch out though.

Those e-switches are used by a whole bunch of European cars- I once wrote an article around adapting a visually identical one salvaged from a '72 Alfa. Then one of the vendors called to mention that he had brand new repros on the shelf for less than $50.... Not all the used ones found in wrecking yards have the same wire orientation, either. You'll have to check continuity on each of the 8 lugs to find out where your wires should connect.

And as for disassembling, there are two different switches used as OEM on Panteras, and far from being 'early' or 'late', they seem to have been used by batch. The plastic body swells over the decades from internal spring pressure, which allows the spring-arm-with-pin to pop out of the cam-groove in the inner body. Besides the one shown in Steve's post, there's a second that's held together by a small flat steel frame with only 3 tabs to bend. Possibly easiest fix is removing the switch, squeezing the body and trying the switch to see if the pin is in the groove, then wrapping the body with a small worm-drive hose clamp- not too tight or you seize the switch action.

Not fixing it and jamming the button in with a toothpick redneck-style also works, with a caution: pushing the button in too far disconnects the tail lights & stoplights on your car. Not to worry: there are plenty of police who will point this out to you, along with a fix-it-ticket...

quote:

Not fixing it and jamming the button in with a toothpick redneck-style also works, with a caution: pushing the button in too far disconnects the tail lights & stoplights on your car.

Not true!!!! The only exterior lights that are effected by a faulty hazard warning switch are the turn signals. The tail lights and the brake lights are completely independent of the hazard warning switch.

John

THREE NUTS!!!!

FINALLY! NO shiny nut stuff going on today!
The AC box is out and on the work bench!

Contrary to all doc's on the subject of removing this assembly, there may have been 4 nuts involved in the design of this affair....but there are only THREE nuts holding it in the car!!!

I am SO glad I used a tiny amount of silicon grease on those heater hose fittings on the heater core.....I was able to pop the hoses loose and get them off fairly easily.

Labeled middle control cable and made a diagram of fan switch wiring for reassembly. Covered ends of AC hoses with plastic bags and taped securely. Laid a towel over the lower console flare piece and carefully pulled the unit out!

New parts on order...... time to clean up stuff and wait!

Ciao!
Steve

Update!

New evap core is finally in place in the tin, and in the car! Working to get external AC connections made!

All I can say about this job is that nothing fits like it did before. Nothing. Hoses that I cut for the heater section now are 1/4-3/8" too short. AC hoses don't fit quite right. I did have to bend the new evap connections just a tad to get clearance of the fresh air section of the late style box! No way around it. It was either bend the tube or no fresh air control!

The one thing that did still fit is the condensate drain hose.

It should be noted that the later style air box, has a one piece bottom section, no seams, with a half to 3/4" of depth to collect water in! One fellow member was relaying stories of his wife's feet getting wet every time he turned a corner...... I am presuming that the early boxes may have a seam that leaks at low levels of water??????

While the new evap core fit in the box physically, the dimensions of the mounting brackets (end brackets) changed slightly more narrow, and the core itself moved to the rear of the box by 1/8-1/4"! This makes putting those pointy little screws back in place a risky task!!! No less than 8 screws needed to be "de-pointed" and made smooth. I also installed washers to take up a little more space! The new core is aluminum, so won't take much to drill into it!!!!!!!

I had to relocate one of the two mounting screws for the core, and make a new hole for the tube that the temp sensor probe fits into. The stock hole didn't align with the new core at all. Had to drill both the case and the core end to accommodate the brass tube insertion to the area where the two rows of fins meet.....anywhere else, you'd be buying a new core once again!!!!

I'll throw up a couple of pictures....of the work.....

First, what got me into all of this mess! The crack...or cracks!!! Both sides of the "Y" look cracked.....
Ciao!
Steve

IF I had known that this fresh air inlet/flapper piece on the RH side of the fan assy was supposed to, or actually DID come off.....I perhaps might maybe possibly wouldn't have cracked the fitting. Never know now....

BUT THIS PIECE COMES OFF!!!!! On mine, I found one teeeny tiny Phillips screw that was locking the unit in place. After that, there are three Phillips head screws that you just need to loosen a turn or so. Then the unit rotates CCW about a half inch or so and it drops off! So simple......no one mentions it....because no one has written the procedure to pull this type of evap case out of their car yet!

S

Here's a different angle on the fresh air inlet control piece.
NOTE ADDED 6/13/18: Apparently this piece was added sometime between 1973 and 1974.....so YMMV for 73-74 owners!

New evap/heater core unit in box first time....

That coil in the perforated little cage is the resistor that steps down your voltage to the fan motor when you select "LOW" on your fan switch.

New 3 speed replacement fan motor configurations will do away with this part. Not needed.
S

This is biggest problem with new core! Screws!!!

I measured the distance from the case outer edge to the surface of the new coils......the difference is what you see here....just enuf to run right through that nice soft aluminum...and ruin your day....!

Had to relocate this hole to new spot! This is copper tube end...which the temp probe is inserted into. Tube is about 3-4" long. Carefully used a screwdriver inserted into this hole to "part" the fins to allow this piece and the probe to go in.....

Such trickery!

Lots going on this side!

Clearance for large AC hose was a bugger once you moved the tube to clear the fresh air inlet piece. Expansion valve will go back on... Temp probe will go in hole...wiring for switch...wiring for control switch..... Other side (heater) is much less going on...

Enuf for now! Work will progress more today!
Steve

OK, that hurt!!! Had to take a couple of days off to let my lower back settle down!!!! Finally back in action today......

Filled cooling system up with water....tomorrow will fire car up and pressurize cooling system to check for leaks at shut off valve.

If that goes good, then can work on filling AC system!

IF that all goes good, then can work on putting the danged dash back in!!! ...and the console....and the seats....and the engine cover and all that...!!! WOW! I may find a car under all of that stuff!

Cleaned my fuses today..... was getting some erratic operation of headlamps and other such stuff....some was due to unplugged connector for turn signal switch! (headlamps popped up when I connected battery and turned on ignition key......WAIT! I never touched the headlamp switch!!!! Surprise!)

Once I figured out that the connector was yet undone....resolved that and normal operation continued....except hi beams were very dim...and one low beam was off....then on...? (What?)

Looked at fuses and some were a bit fuzzy. Cleaned everything up with brass brush. Now I get nice bright lights, strong horn...OK, medium horn....meep meep.... and MY HEATER FAN WORKS!!!!

BUT Lo position is not a positive experience each time. You have to futz with the rocker switch to get things working and then it may stay on or not. High position works fine.

OK TWO QUESTIONS related to all of this......

1) Has anyone ever rebuilt a FAN rocker switch? or at least taken it apart in a non-destructive manner? How'd ya do it?

2) Where is the horn relay? I think there is one mentioned.......in the schematics..... 74 car. Reason I ask is that I want to put a set of late model Crown Vic FIAM horns up front. Meep meeep doesn't get it around here in traffic! You need the "WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING!!!!!????" sort of report from your horns! Plus I think only one is working....! I think the horns would need to operate off of a relay....

The air horns in the Mangusta were fantastic (once properly lubed)!!! I thought Panteras got them also...perhaps that was only early cars??

No smoke from anything today......life is good!

Ciao!
Steve

2) Where is the horn relay? I think there is one mentioned.......in the schematics..... 74 car. Reason I ask is that I want to put a set of late model Crown Vic FIAM horns up front. Meep meeep doesn't get it around here in traffic! You need the "WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING!!!!!????" sort of report from your horns! Plus I think only one is working....! I think the horns would need to operate off of a relay....

The air horns in the Mangusta were fantastic (once properly lubed)!!! I thought Panteras got them also...perhaps that was only early cars??

No smoke from anything today......life is good!

Ciao!
Steve[/QUOTE]

From what I know all Pantera's have original airhorns, also the later build , GT5,GT5-S and Si .

Simon

quote:

Where is the horn relay?

Steve,

The horn relay is located behind the door (door #1 !!!) on driver's side kick panel (fender well). Horns are mechanical, not air.

John

OK, good! Relay: yes. Air horns: maybe.....probably not.

Seems to me that after I discovered my barely working air horns in the Goose front wheel well, that other Pantera owners piped up that they also had them....

We determined that almost the exact same air horns are still being sold by local AP stores as well as online!

Not sure which way I will go yet.......too early to make decisions so crucial...

I do need to venture out and see if I can dig up a "thumb nut" for the back of one of my large gauges. Car came to me with only three instead of 4. Something else....but cannot recall what was on the "list" to take to the electronics junk store! Excuse me, recycling store.....!

Thanks!!!
Steve

quote:

1) Has anyone ever rebuilt a FAN rocker switch? or at least taken it apart in a non-destructive manner? How'd ya do it?

Here you go! John Taphorn can chime in with more details if necessary.
http://www.spacecitypanteras.c...nfo/switch%20repair/

Garth,

That is a great write up!

I can only hope that I have good internals left to work with....but I don't think so.

LOW position gets no "super duper" feels good sensation when you move the switch....sort of vague...if you jiggle and joggle it...then it may come on. HI works just fine.

I'll look thru more boxes of old stuff to see what I can find for old switches! Sounds like possibility could be high that I have some spare bits about!!!

Thanks again!
Steve

Well, Erica lives true to her namesake.......

I fired the car up today, to heat up the system to see if my new heater core and associated connections are sound.

Nope!!! As soon as water started circulating, I could hear water....probably air bubbles then water... but never the less....a mess ensued!

Shut the car off and grabbed the 19mm wrenches to tighten the connector on the heater shut off valve..... No sooner had I given the wrench another couple of flats towards tight, and I see the monkey flyin heater tube pop out of the monkey flyin attaching nut.......!!!!!!!

After I jumped to grab containers to catch the freshly filled engine's water which was now gushing into the cabin.....and dumped them into an antifreeze jug for safe keeping...AND sopped up some out of the carpet and backing...... I removed the nut and found the flared aluminum end of the heater tube cleanly cut off and sitting in the nut......

SO, time to pull the heater box out once again and see if I can get a new flare put on the end of the tube..... Just can't get flare tools at the tube while it is in the car and in the box........

Crap!
Steve

PS Flying monkey thing is reference to Samuel L Jackson in FX's cleaned up version of "Snakes on a Plane"...... Got my own plane of snakes here and her name is Erica!!!!

PSS: Added picture of old and new fittings. Can anyone see a problem? Same mistake is also propagated to the AC side on the expansion valve fitting.....need to contact the manufacturer!

Steve,

It looks to me like they used a compression nut in place of the 45° flare nut. Something to be aware of that I found when I swapped my L model heater control valve for an electronic version is that the fitting is not a standard 3/8" SAE flare with 18TPI threads. It is actually a 3/8" BPPT, British Parallel Pipe Thread, that is 19TPI. It's hard to tell but a thread gauge tells the story. You can't find that flare nut at your local ACE Hardware. I ended up using the original flare nut on the heater core and made a fitting to match on the lathe. Then I relocated the control valve to the engine compartment. Good luck.

Steve
6512

Steve,
There is a new fan switch for sale on Ebay.

Forest

Steve,

EDIT: I looked some more into this thread type, and it is a British Standard Pipe Parallel ie straight. (or Tapered if called for.) SO BSPP in what I could find.....probably other acronyms just like for NPT!!!

BUTTTTT, trying to find a tubing nut in BSPP format is proving to be difficult!

I was also trying to find an adapter to go Female BSPP to Male NPTS (straight threads) but no go! Other way around.....no prob. This way supplier could put NPTS nuts on the heater core and use regular shut off valves from US. OR use the adapter and fit to the original heater valve! Which is what I would love to do.

Just like the Italians to use a British water valve on an Italian car sold in the US......(and elsewhere!)

That explains why the danged nut didn't thread onto the valve just quite as nice as it should have for being new parts!!!! I thought I had some aluminum in the threads from previous fitting....and worked on those threads for quite a while with a thread file....cleaning them up!

Hmmmm, don't have 19TPI on my thread gauge either.

Just like Rosanne Rosannadana used to say.....
"It's Always something!"

Thanks for the great info!!!!!
Steve

...Here's the solution that worked for Me, when I Installed a New P.S. pump on a GMC Truck, and the Hose Fitting was Different from the (Removable) Adaptor, on the Original (Old) Pump.

I turned the Two Pieces with the 'Ends' I need to work, on the Lathe to Mate with a .002" Press fit, degreased with Acetone, smeared a thin film of Locktite RED on the opposing surfaces and pressed the Two Parts together on a Hydraulic press. BOOM! An Adaptor. It works, No Leaks!
Be sure to cap the Flare so as to Not Damage it, in the Press.

If this procedure can hold the pressure of a P.S. Pump, it can certainly hold the Pressure of a AC Pump.

Steve, If You do not have access to a Lathe, send Me the Parts with a Clear Blueprint of what You need, and I will Machine, and assemble them for You. At No cost to You, for the 'Cause'.

Marlin,

This is EXACTLY what I am going to need to do.

The evap core will get an NPS flare nut on it...
Then I found a BPSS female to NPT male AND
a NPT female to NPS flare male. Whew need to cool off....all that sex talk!!!

At the same time need to look more closely at the connection on the AC side. I think that ALSO is likely a damned compression fitting also, and after a few hundred heating and cooling cycles could simply cut right thru that connection as well. If it is a proper nut I will be pleasantly surprised!

Thanks for the offer! I do have a 6" South Bend but it is in bits in my new shop waiting for a bench, power, and reassembly!

In the mean time a have a small lathe that will do the trick for doing exactly what you suggest, although I may solder it.....

Did the same on a PS fitting on a 67 390 Fairlane. Hoses were unobtanium and priced to the moon. Did find an old NOS hose that was mismarked and had the wrong something or other to work for me (probably a 66 hose) but did take two adapters and made one!

I was hoping that a BPSS flare fitting could be located.....but found absolutely nothing on the internet!!!! That would have been too easy.
Would have fed the info back to the vender!

If the vendor does nothing but put a proper flare nut (NPS) on this fitting, we could still properly substitute new US made valves that have the same sort of design.....threaded flare connection and hose..... Whether the rotational control would be retained....different issue.

At the worst, ya cross thread the hell out of the nut and it would hold.....ugh!

Would have fed the info back to the vender!

We'll see how this job works....may not want to get into the adapter business........! Not $$ heavy!

Bad news is that I can't do this job in the car.....
Right now I'm just resting my back after putzing it up real good just putting the box back in the car.......need to work back up to bustin' the evap box back out of the car!!! May be tomorrow.......then take the whole thing apart again.

....find a removable steering wheel fitting could help too!

Stupid $2 part derails a $1000+ job.....

My "lathe" for this job! It's not the size, it's how ya use it!!!

Ciao!
Steve

Unfortunately, this is on a NEW core from vendor....of aluminum.......

I'll try and get the adapter as short as I can get it.....and then shorten the heater tube by some unknown amount....and get the valve back in it's approximate stock location! Lower by a 1/4" wouldn't hurt....easier to get hose on then!

I am of the nature to have my copper core fixed and reinstall....except that while moving it around in the garage the other day, I think I cracked one of the heater tubes! (It already had the AC side broken......!) Can't win here...!

Steve

Steve,

If the old core is destined for recycle why not reuse the original flare nuts? Have you contacted any British plumbing suppliers? Sometimes it takes asking for something to find it.

Steve

Or, buy an entire used assembly that is on Ebay right now and use what you need and save or recycle the rest.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Mangusta:

....find a removable steering wheel fitting could help too!

Ciao!
Steve

Wilkinson has a great one. Here it is on my car.

It makes working under the dash so much easier.

At this point, reusing the original may be an out to a solution as well.

We'll see once I get it all back on the bench and laid out. Will depend on how much of the new/old tubing can be stretched and still keep the valve close to the original location so that the hose isn't up against the blower and the cable at some obtuse angle to activate the thing!

Thanks all!!!

Steve

quote:

Did the same on a PS fitting on a 67 390 Fairlane. Hoses were unobtanium and priced to the moon. Did find an old NOS hose that was mismarked and had the wrong something or other to work for me (probably a 66 hose) but did take two adapters and made one!

I was hoping that a BPSS flare fitting could be located.....but found absolutely nothing on the internet!!!! That would have been too easy.
Would have fed the info back to the vender!

An excellent local source for AC fittings and/or custom hoses with the fittings you need is Sease's Auto Services & Repair on N. 4th Street in San Jose. I had them fab up some new hoses for my AC system.

Garth,

Yes, intimately familiar with the boyz down there! They helped me with the Goose hoses, and I've visited there a couple of times in the past weeks......but this job is on me I believe......

Erica is on "time out" at the moment. Gonna go move a Cougar down south on the new trailer.....

Thanks!
Steve

OK, Erica has been on "time out" for being such a Beyonce..... I need a sanity check here cuz I'm going a tad crazy....can't afford to lose more hair!

Whut I done so far....

Repaired Evap/Heater core is back in car, holding 28+ inches of vacuum for several days while I have been trying to get heater core to work.....

Today determined that core has no obstructions, valve is adjusted for full flow capacity (about a 3/8" passage), and my home brew heater line filter is not plugged up already.......

I need a sanity check here......

Heater core is connected as follows....(similar to other post two up the list)....

The open line on the core is connected directly to the back to the pump which should be "sucking" water from the core..... (Left hand tube)

Valved side of core goes back via RH tube and hits my filter and is then connected to the block outlet. This is the pressure side...

Water pump "pumps water" into the block, from radiator, which is heated, then is pumped out the block fitting and forward to the heater valve...into the core...and back out...returning to the water pump. It should be as simple as that.

Pressure side of core is valved connection, suction side is the open connection.

But for me....no love. The two metal hoses up at where they come out of the tunnel are barely warm.....engine is warm enuf to turn both fans on......

I had flushed these lines several times, although had lots of crap in them......seemed clean.

SO, is this something unique to our cars, that the core needs to be bled????? Air bubble issues?????

I would think that with a suction on one side, and pressure on the other, that water would displace air and these lines should be cooking in no time......

What stupid simple thing am I missing?????

Cheers!
Steve

Steve I don't know if this is of any help but I got irritated with the fluctuating temperature outlet of my heater when I had it on during cold summer nights etc. Suddenly it was 40°C in the cockpit and 2 minutes later 18°C all depending on engine rpm and available flow for the heater core.

So I installed a dedicated heater pump like we know from all modern cars and it is switched via a micro switch on the cable/valve assembly so when the temp selector on the dash is all the way left the power to the pump is cut and the pump stops. It works quite nice so now we are able to control the temp in the cockpit much better.
BTW the temporary cable tie is now replaced with a proper clamp.

I think that's an excellent solution. Most of us don't drive the car in the cold though and many Pantera owners are in Southern California where you really don't need a heater.

goodroc,

Very clever!

Can you give us some details of the electric pump you used?

Thanks!

David, yes certainly. That pump sit on many cars. The one I used is a Bosch 0392020073 and it is used in Audi, VW, Ford, Porsche, Mercedes etc. The studs were not the same size as my hoses but I used some step down (or step up) straight connectors. But it all depends obviously. I wired it via a relay and took the ground for the relay coil and wired it via a small/micro switch that I attached were the cable from the lever connects to the water valve. It was a bit tricky to get that to sit correctly so it cuts out exactly when the valve is also shut. But I managed eventually. Unfortunately I didn't take any photos of that.

Btw I don't think it is a problem to wire it directly without a relay, I am not sure how much current it draws but not much I think.

I know it well. I've got one on my Audi TT. I don't know what current it draws but when I turn on the heat I hear the alternator and feel the rpm drop.

These pumps are designed for continuous use and can run the lifetime of the car. It is not big amp drawer.

If the Audi TT is sensitive enough to register the pump starts it is most likely because other things draw much more current at the same moment, like the heater fan for instance.

AHAH!!!!

Hope you're all full of deviled eggs, sugary eggs, and yellow chicks and bunnies!!!

Stupid simplicity strikes again!!!!!

What is R & L at the front of the tunnel....is NOT R & L at the rear of the tunnel!!!

The two metal tubes start out side by side, then go top to bottom down the side of the tunnel and exit crossed!!! My bad! No drawing from how I started....!

Today, I took all of the heater hoses off at the rear of the tunnel and confirmed no crap blocking flow. Got a little....but not very much. Flushed the core with water....got flow!

SO, filled it all back up again, fired it up....and the "non valved" hose/tube at the heater core was starting to heat up first!!! Wrongo! Hoses are crossed!

Now I need to let the thing cool down so I don't scald myself when I attempt to make hoses fit which have been beautifully trimmed and manicured, dressed, sent to prom.....but the wrong prom!

It's always something....! DeT strikes again!

Ciao!
Steve

WE HAVE HEAT!!!!!

After correcting the faux paux with the stupid hoses, I filled it up with coolant and pretty much instantly had warm under console pipes!

Now, after months... BACK TO COOLING...!

Don't touch that dial!!!
Steve

WE HAVE COOL!!!!!

System had been holding since way back at about 26-27" of vacuum while I fought with the heater hoses. Fired the pump back up and sucked the system down to 28-29", about a half hour or so just for kicks.

Attached the Freon tank, purged the line, and proceeded to fill with gas....up to the point where the car needed to be running to get any more gas in the car. Sun is down, about 63-65 degrees in the garage...so not enuf to warm the tank!

Eventually pumped enuf Freon to get the pressures to around 155/9 and a register temp of about 40 degrees! YAY!!! With fan on high, that should freeze the wife out quite nicely!!!!

Tomorrow, once all cools down, will try and get the charging hoses off without taking a damned oil bath again! Hazards of old threaded R12 connections! Will need to get sneaky rabbit on the things......

THEN, apply AC goopy tape to all of the metal bits and holes in the housing....get the RH duct put back in place, & control cable attached.

Once done with that, we can finally direct our attention back to getting the upper dash cover back in place...... More Rubieo Goldbergio going on with the wiper switch lamp install, big gauge retainer hardware....spaces that don't like big hands.....

BUT we are once again moving in the proper direction!!!!

Cheers!
Steve

OK, lot going on in the last 10 days!

Just finished installing the dash today,....or at least about 99% of it. Still need to snap the vents in place, the side panels, and rear section of the console!

One issue I did run into, was one of the connections for the ignition switch wiring to the dash wiring. One of the wires had apparently heated up pretty good....and pretty much roasted the brass connector such that the little screws appeared rusty and were in no form going to unscrew as intended.

After cutting the connector apart, I was able to get the switch side of the wire loose. After that I busted the other screw off...and had to get out the Dremel cutoff wheel with a micro thin wheel on it and cut down the side of the brass piece until it loosened up and fell off.

The burned portions of the wires were cleaned up using a small stainless parts brush, heat shrink added where needed, and wires were tinned. Turns out that the chassis wiring bits had already been tinned! (THANK-YOU!!!) Some pretty big wires are doubled up on this deal! Much bigger than the switch wire on the other side of it!!! Again, various bits of heat shrink AND a new piece of splice connector block....and I can continue with the dash installation!

Not sure where I found this stuff, (first guess might be a Fiat 850 spider) but it is the same named maker as was found on the one I took out!!! MAMUT Spacing is a tad different.....but the rest works just fine!

Getting this wiring back up into the dash from whence it came is a bit of a chore!!!!! If you are doing this job, take a picture of how this wiring all fits up in the dash when you drop the column down to get at the gauges etc!!! You will be glad you did!

Once that was all back and in, I was able to confirm that the new LEDs I put in all the gauges worked! Can actually see the danged things now!

I've also been working on cleaning up a set of seat tracks, so I can pull my Recarros and install a nice set of Vette seats that came with the car. But that's another post to come.

Have also been busy working on moving to new location. So busy with picking out cabinets, wood flooring, counter tops, moving stuff, cleaning up house so we can move in....clean up old house so we can move out..... 35 years of squirreling parts away in my garage and sheds is not gonna be easy......not looking forward to this all......!!!!!!

SO, I need to get this garage queen back on the road!

Tomorrow is a PCNC tour of Brizio's shop as well as another car collection owner near by! Time to take a break.....! If we get home early enuf, need to bust out the MIG welder to weld up a seat track hole that had been mercilessly hogged out for some unknown reason.... AND I need to weld the lower brace for the RH rear wheel well back in place. Hope to not screw that up OR the paint too badly. Since this is a 74, it should have the lower section painted black...which it isn't at the moment....but I want it to be such....and hopefully this area to be welded will be in the black area.....! Need to figure out how it fits in there and how to weld it....!

...then put the engine cover back on, the final console pieces and side covers up front, and I can put firewall cover back in the car too!

Only been WAY TOO LONG on this project....!

Cheers !!!
Steve

OK, a quick peek at DIY derusting last seat track bottom.....!

Reverse Electrolysis in action!

$5 Home Depot bucket- a splurge!
$4 piece of 6ft 3/8" rebar
$1 for two alligator clips and a red bootie
scrap copper wire and wire nuts I had in the cabinet for more years than I care to think about....
$4 for Arm and Hammer "washing soda" Makes the magic happen in the water...2lb box will last a long time!!! 1TBSP per gallon of H2O.
AND an old Dell DC voltage laptop computer power supply that was scrap. You can also use a car battery charger too.

Bucket is too short to do entire track so had to flip it over once. Not a biggie. This was a first run at trying this method out. But I can do all sorts of stuff like calipers etc. You can get creative with nylon tubs etc but principle is still the same. Internet sez that apparently some folks have used a swimming pool to derust a car chassis or body....hope they weren't renting!!!

The rust wipes off pretty much, but in the really pitted areas where the zinc is gone, you will need to hit it with Scotch Brite pads or a small brass or stainless parts brush and then wipe it down clean, even wash with soap, then paint to preserve.

Oh, and use in a well ventilated area! Gas given off is hydrogen! No boom in the garage please!!!!!

Cheers!
Steve

Got any before pictures?

Sure!

Here's a before.....pretty scarfy on the bottom side!

The top slide pieces had a little bit and ya can either let the bucket do the heavy lifting, then drop them in the Evap-O-Rust to do the fine work, or just the latter.

The last piece I did, after letting it sit for 12-16 hours or so looked good. Again, stainless brush work gets the typical black film off and any scruffy pieces left on....so you can either continue to bucket it....or coat with some Rust-Oleum and call it ready to install! Just don't paint where the rollers ride or where the two pieces slide together!

Cheers!
steve

OK, here is an after picture of one of the other lower seat mounts which was equally as grungy as the one above.

I welded up the three leaf clover hole in the one above, ground and filed it round and level again, hit it with some high temp silver/grey Rustoleum rattle can paint to protect it further.

If doing this, just be sure to keep paint off of the surface on the upper piece slides against the lower piece (put some synthetic grease there!) and also keep paint out of there the rollers roll. Everywhere else should be covered! They won't be shiny zinc plated.....but they won't be ugly and rusty!

Presently going to run the stock OEM rollers...have been told this is a bad idea.....but they are all still round! Well seats aren't going in just yet, so will need to source some eventually. Hopefully the old ones will allow us to try out the ('Vette) seats and see if we like them!

Update on the dash!

Reassembly of the interior is almost complete! Have everything installed except for the front lower RH tunnel cover. Going to leave this off until I know that nothing is leaking!!! Those panels are a PITA to install...! Seems like they are a mighty tight fit what with carpet seams everywhere!

Also need to put the seat belt bar back in place.

I worked on getting the RH lower wheelhouse cover mount fixed up too! Looks like it was spot welded in place originally, but both of those have torn out and left tiny holes. Not optimum for trying to re-spot weld them OR MIG weld them back into place!

I used my Roper punch to put a good hole in the horizontal seam that is inside the wheel well, and drilled out the lower hole so that a sheet metal screw fits thru it. Then used self tapping screws into the bracket to secure the piece to the horizontal seam and the lower rocker panel seam. If this doesn't hold it well enuf, will need to resort to more violent means of keeping the bracket in place!

Need to de-slime the cover a bit....not sure what got on it, but looks oily......then I can install it and FINALLY put the rear wheel back on! ....set it down off the blocks.....AND GO FOR A RIDE!!!!

We'll see.....other project involves carpet, padding, nailing strips....and a dumpster.....and same dumpster and a small truck full of floor tiles......ugh!

What did I get myself into........this time baaaaby?

Cheers all!
Steve

Picture guide...
Top rail, RH hole was the three leaf clover hole...welded up and hand finished back down, plus paint....

Middle rail is last one out of the bucket. Probably spent more time in there than the others......have only cleaned it with small stainless brush.

Bottom rail was bucketed, AND dipped in Evap-O-Rust for a final treatment. I think this one was pretty bad, as it didn't clean up as well as the others. But it is WAY better than when I started!

RH Lower Wheel Well mounting bracket which I spoke of above.....shown in approximate position as mounted on car.

Have cleaned rust off of it with brush, and coated with primer and paint. Ready to go back on car as soon as I get some spare time to advance this project forward!

Almost to the end of this saga. Get ready for next bag of snakes!!!
Cheers!
Steve

These tracks are something that the entire assembly should all be stainless.

To me, it seems that no matter what you do has little long term effect.

Switch to the bronze rollers. At least those won't freeze to the tracks.

If I had it to do again, I'd consider ceramic coating the tracks. It may not be 100% effective over 20 years but it sure won't hurt.

You just don't want to do these things over and over again.

Steve, that photo looks like an aft rear fender brace and isn't on earlier Panteras. Which reminds me- I tack-welded or brazed the right side brace for that car to the fender when Howard Renshaw owned it. I'd stored it for a while as part of a surprise birthday present by Howard's wife. Boy, that's been awhile- think it was 1985 or so. Those seat rails are about what you'd expect from light galvanized steel on a car stored in a car-port near the water (Sac'to River Delta area) for 20 years. You've done well on what I remember as an exceptionally clean '74 before carport storage. Hope your new place has a garage!