Goose 8MA642 Refurb and Repaint

Doesn't look right. The waterpump on your diagram only has incomming water....strange..

would not the water pump discharge be directly into the block (no hoses) and the hot coolant from the block and heads enter the "water neck"?

I do think the flow from the radiator vent would be towards the yellow tank (fill tank ?)

On your headers, I once saw a CA goose with 'boat-zoomies'- std headers installed upside-down that fixed the a-arm clearance problem, while making the engine harder to work on. Steve Liebenow found the heater valves were not connected on his '69. A Boss 302 is a real mess to install in a Mangusta but a factory EFI non-Boss 302 fits exceptionally well.

Thanx for inputs. Didn't draw motor on chart. Water pump flow out is into block. My weber intake has only the two main water outlets. In my case, the water neck component is separate from the intake but functions the same as if it was connected.

Wondered about 'vent hose' flow, but all the drawings I looked at showed the flow the same making me think it's not a vent hose.

Mark

REGARDING YOUR HEADERS.
When my engine was redone the builders wanted to use 22/4 inch headers pipes to the mufflers. We built a beautiful set of headers that instead of going down and through the rear suspension like the original went up.

The tubes come off the heads and go up and back to a collector, over the top link of the hub carrier and then turn straight down, they turn again to the back of the car and straight in to the mufflers. It works great as there is no exhaust heat near the starter or motor mounts.

The gave me the large header pipe and no interference with the rear suspension. My headers are equal length tubes and very efficient. I have never had any trouble with them, they are jet coated silver.

DICK RUZZIN

quote:

Originally posted by Dick Ruzzin:
REGARDING YOUR HEADERS.
When my engine was redone the builders wanted to use 22/4 inch headers pipes to the mufflers. We built a beautiful set of headers that instead of going down and through the rear suspension like the original went up.

The tubes come off the heads and go up and back to a collector, over the top link of the hub carrier and then turn straight down, they turn again to the back of the car and straight in to the mufflers. It works great as there is no exhaust heat near the starter or motor mounts.

The gave me the large header pipe and no interference with the rear suspension. My headers are equal length tubes and very efficient. I have never had any trouble with them, they are jet coated silver.
DICK RUZZIN

We want to see pictures... Sounds like an interesting setup.

Motor/ZF ready to pull.
- So I don't have to go thru the syncing gears/linkage/turnbuckle drill during reinstall, does anyone see a problem with drilling out the pin on shaft from ZF that connects with linkage and just replacing with SS nut/bolt? I did this on a Bora 10 years ago and its worked fine.
- Went thru the forum to determine best way - both together or separate (the way I did this a few years ago). For separate, does the bell housing come out with the ZF or does it stay with motor? For separate, looks like a clearance issue at the back of he ZF with the frame. Do you jack up motor to angle ZF for clearance of frame?

Other
- How do you remove wipers?
- Assume you remove wiper motor and window sprayer from inside the dash. Is this Right?
- Assume you remove Ghia emblems from sides by going in thru door in each wheel well. Sound right?

Thanx
Mark

I'd try real hard to remove but NOT drill the pin out, as the ZF shaft is high-carbon steel that easily air-hardens with even slightly used drills. Then you will be into beating the remains out with a hammer & punch or using expensive, fragile carbide drill bits while still laying on your back underneath.

Once the pin is out, an aircraft-grade 8 bolt & nut will work fine and be easily removable. But what normally happens is, the mild steel clevis ears of the connecting shaft elongate, introducing slop. Bushing the clevis holes while leaving the short ZF shaft alone, works best.

quote:

How do you remove wipers?- Assume you remove wiper motor and window sprayer from inside the dash. Is this Right?- Assume you remove Ghia emblems from sides by going in thru door in each wheel well. Sound right?

Hi Mark, sounds like your project is moving along. I agree w/ Jack the gear linkage is a pain to work on, the positioning is all terrible!! That said on my car the pins were roll pins and the rear one (which I think you are referring to) comes in/out with relative ease. The one further ahead, near the joint in the shaft and near the engine mount, is MUCH worse to deal with. IIRC the shaft assembly can be disconnected by removing the rear pin only, assuming it cooperates.

Re the wipers and sprayer it's all under the dash as you mention, should not be a problem. As for the badges they are actually ahead of the shields located behind either front wheel so you don't need to remove anything to get access.

Thanx Nate, roll pin popped right out and ZF removed; that will save a lot of anguish getting everything in sync again on the other end; motor removal today.

Dick, have some 351C headers that will fit Boss motor ... already had cut flanges from pipes; once motor is out and while car be repainted, will try to fit/cut/weld them so they exit up over suspension as you described ... just isn't enough room on either side thru frame/support to install headers going down.

A few questions,
1) how are the stainless steel wiper blades removed to get to nut that allows complete removal from under dash ... doesn't appear to be a small screw on wiper hub, but I do see a pin where the blade meets the wiper hub?
2) with front bonnet wide open and disassembled, what are key areas to refurb up front (already implemented the dual electric fan fix with spal fans a few years ago)?
3) both wheel/tires up front appear to tow out ... can a std wheel/brake/alignment shop work on the Mangusta front end?
3) radiator is removed ... didn't leak; should it be cleaned and if so, what is the best best method?

When car was painted red in 1971-72, they neglected to paint under the pad on the inside of the front trunk lid. So, original color is loud and clear and it appears to be a gold metallic(very similar to prototype - see picture). Any one know what this color is?

Thanx
Mark

FYI...wrt removing wiper arms and after researching this type on web...as it turns out, the wiper arms on my Goose pried off pulling straight up...there was no screw or locking nut involved...they are held in place with a snug fit on the splined wiper post

Will tackle pulling windows from doors today.

Headlights (4 type) ... to completely remove headlights and bezel, etc for painting, looks like rivets need to be drilled out on both side to get everything out ... sound right?

NO, just a couple phillips screws

That goose is gorgeous in that gold.

Thanx Dennis C ... that tidbit of data helped me get front end apart in no time ... don't know how I missed those screws, they were right there!

That is a unique and very pretty color. It completely changes the image of the car in my mind.
Very nice.

Mark,

re the cooling diagram, I can only say that it looks too complicated. I'm also not a Weber expert.

I would hook it up exactly like a 69 Mustang with webers. Excepting the "Y" pipe at the front of the engine that the Goose uses from T-stat outlet down to pipe to up front (hot water out). Also, the one small connection at the bottom of the radiator is different.

All the rest of the connections could be made as if it were a simple Ford. That is what I boiled my drawings down to...while comparing to a very original car with water valves...and then there was my car with nothing left of the valves, and no crossover between the two heater core hoses, BEFORE the shut off valves that I installed in the cabin for emergency and ease of activating heater! Yes, it gets used in my car!

ZF comes out while tipping engine forward...loosen everything that would allow you to do this...take off dist cap....

While engine is tilted forward, you can take off front jackshaft pulley. This makes pulling engine easier.

Then take off starter, bellhousing, flywheel, and block plate. This really makes pulling engine much easier!

Steve

Car headed to repaint this week. Bought a couple of steering rack boots to install before it heads out. Should I grease arm and teeth with normal black grease, or is there something specific to use?

Thanx
Mark

MARK

1.
The wiper ARMS are removed by depressing a small stainless tab toward the center of the shaft and then pulling the hub straight up in alignment with the center of the shaft.
It is hard to see, I think it is facing in the direction of the blade. Look very closely to find it. Once the little is depressed you can wiggle the base of the arm, pull gently and it will come off. Do not pull it without depressing the lock first.

2.
Up front seal everything so that ALL air entering the front of the car has to go through the radiator. At the top of the radiator before putting the top panel on use foam to block off all spaces so that air cannot go over the radiator and then behind it. See the article on Mangusta International for details.

3.
Try to find a shop that has a computer alignment machine with two towers as described in the article on MangustaInternational.com. They have to align the rear wheels first and then the front. A good technician will know what to do. Show them the description described above.

4.Your gold paint may not be like the paint on the prototype. The prototype was a different car altogether although it looked to most people like the later production version of the Mangusta. You might be able to get a color content reading at a paint supply with a computer if there is enough surface to measure.

DICK RUZZIN

The Goose is now in the shop for repaint (will probably get it back in the fall). Based on thickness of the various layers and skin cleanup due to age, the car will be taken to bare metal and repainted. Will get all chrome components rechromed and have appropriate components powder coated. Will also be going from red to the original metallic gold (example of original color from behind seat insulation attached). In the mean time, will be performing motor rebuild to include installing correct cam (Crane Cams 363841) for IDA Webers on Boss 302; fabricating 'up and over' headers due to limited space between Boss motor and engine bay; planning how to force cool air thru just the radiator in line with other forum posts; etc).

Appreciate all the advise.

Thanx
Mark

MARK,
I suggest an adjustable, brake proportioning valve to be installed in the front brake T. They make them now to include the stop light switch.
A huge safety improvement.

Dick Ruzzin

Btw, what car is that in the May 27th post ? the proto didn't have the gas filler outside and had different headlights, I see this one has external hinges (!) so someone went thru a lot of work to make a beautiful car...Lee

Lee.

That car is "numero uno"!

Factory museum car, originally a push car...later converted to an operational car!

My DNA is in that car....
Steve

Wow....btw, there is a guy in Florida (our friend Al, the Vintage Air guy...) that has parts from this prototype...Lee

I doubt they are parts from THE prototype. They may be similar but the prototype is alive and well, the DeT family kept it. If I recall correctly a member here has a one piece bumper just like the prototype car.

It is alive and well. Just saw it last week, and it will appear in a upcoming book about the deTomaso brand.

Oh, and I asked about the comment about the first mangusta being a push car, and later made functional. my Aunt did not think that was correct. She did recall that for shows several engines were shown in the car, but many were just "press fitted" into the car for display. The example was there was a special photo session for Corgi when they came to photograph and measure the car for the miniature. I do know that in 1978, there was a Cleavland in the car, as I worked on it that summer.

Do you know anything about the gold Mangusta touring the track at Monte Carlo after the push car was shown in the Turin show giving Princess Grace a ride?

Dick Ruzzin

Received windshield (14802100 - 260EU), two rear doors (14802110 - 290EU), drv and pass door (14802160 - 64EU), and front bonnet (14802180 - 80EU) rubber from Cicognani today. Process was very easy and they were very responsive. Won't be installing for a couple of months so can't comment on fit yet. Shipping was 75EU. Total was 769EU.

Hi Mark, I am in discussions with them at present re the fit of the rear hatch glass. if you get a chance could you try and lay the seals around your glass as this will give a very good indication if they are correct. I know there windscreen fits correctly now thanks to Johnny Woods efforts with then. Mike

Car is in strip and paint for a few months so won't be able to check seals until they get to that stage.

Thanks Mark, I have sent them a detailed diagram with sizes and radius of edge where curved to hopefully ensure a good fit. Will see how we go.
Mike

Radiator
- status while in car was no leaks
- from what material is original goose radiator constructed
- with radiator removed from car, what is best approach to cleaning it
- for storing over the next three-to four months, should I fill with 50/50 mix to prevent corrosion
- any ideas would be appreciated

Thanx
Mark

Mark,

I didn't get the original radiator with my car, but these were built by the same company that built radiators for Fiats, or so I was told, and our old Fiat had a brass radiator.

Most that still have them, are happy with them as far as cooling goes! Providing you get cool air into the motor to begin with...!

I would drain it, rinse it out, and just let it air dry. In TX that shouldn't be much of an issue.

If you are going to have it serviced, ie professionally cleaned, a shop will server you best here as they'll have a large tank to dunk it in...save you a lot of PITA work! Have them flow test it first. If it flows fine...it doesn't need much cleaning!

Cheers! That gold is going to look nice! Can't wait to see more pic's!
Steve

get it to a radiator shop and have it inspected...mine needed to be rebuilt, lots of clogs in the fins. The wonderful news is that these brass radiators can be rebuilt...Same with the interior heater core.
You just really don't want to guess whether the radiator is cooling as it should...just too easy to have a radiator looked at professionally. Especially for a 45 year old Italian car...Lee

Hi Folks.
I am starting repainting my Mangusta 8MA1242 bought 3 years ago. It is painted red, but, as it often turns out, when peeling off that paint, the original color appeared : dark (slightly metallized) blue.
Problem is, in Denis C post from June 27,2011,this color is not mentioned. However, 8MA1242 is a late car, and, according to Pantera International, the official colour catalog of the early Panteras features a "Bleu sera met. n°033.8.012" from Glidden (Industria Smalti e Vernici, Milano).
Would anyone know if that colour was also used on Mangustas ?
Thank you for your advice.
Jean

Radiator .... took to shop to have cleaned and they saw some sodder that needed to be prepared. They did the work and tested it today. They called saying the core has pin hole leaks and can be rebuilt for about $600 ... what are your thoughts ... go with an after market modern radiator (and if so what is best make and model for mangusta), or get the original repaired?

Thanx
Mark

Mark,
I'd say it's $600 of one or $600 of the other....!!!

The originals are alleged to be fantastic radiators.......

I put a new aluminum one in ONLY because my original was long gone and mounts were already modified (not to great standards..), not to mention all the fan stuff was cobbled together too.....so it wasn't like I was "changing" anything from stock.

I would like to see the original style maintained if possible. But that's me.

If they can get you the same style of core, with all the fins etc, that would be great!!!!

Fans could probably use help however. At very least, take originals out, lube the bronze bearings with oil, and seal up any air leaks around the radiator so air doesn't bypass it!
(thanks Dick!!!)

Steve

Radiator ... the rest of the story ... the radiator shop can recore the original brass and copper radiator for $625 (takes about 3 days since one of the 2 or 3 core plants left in the states happens to be in Fort Worth -- near where I live). They said I could go with either the original inline tubes with flat pins, or for a 20% increase in cooling for same price, go with staggered tubes and louvered pins maintaining original look. They indicated that unless someone got down and was looking at the core, the radiator would look the same since they are reusing the original tank components. What do you think -- upgraded original? Original? Or modern radiator?

Thanx for you help
Mark

Mark;

It is a great question, and one that is really hard to answer, since everyone has a opinon on the topic.

If you were going to show the goose at AACA, they would say you have to match the orginal design. As for any other car show, I am guessing they will not be able to tell you that it was not orginal unless the design looks too modern. With the price of gooses going into the upper limit, I am guessing originality will count for something. But as I learned years ago, deTomaso was never about originality.
A couple of years ago, I was talking to my aunt about the idea of an Orginal Pantera. She said that when they had a "reunion" a couple of years after the Pantera was launched, people asked to be judged. Bertocci(not sure of the spelling) was asked to do the judging. He took points off for everything that he believed was not original. She said that in the end, he said only a Pantera that was pushed into the event would have been original. The net net is, do what you want, but if you want to drive it, I would have the best radiator you can find, as nothing is worse than an over heating car.

Door #2 Monte!!!

20% increase but look old!!!

Steve

Jean, PM message sent

Denis

Attached is a pic of the rear drivers side lower frame. Inside the red rectangular container, you can see that at some point in its life, the car's frame has been indented/compressed when the skid plate was bolted on too tightly.

If this is no big deal (ie, not being a structural engineer, I have no idea if this is actually a frame integrity issue), I won't worry about it. I will just clean up frame and POR-15 it to prevent rust.

However, if need be, I can craft 4 appropriately sized pieces steel and weld them around all four sides of the damaged area.

Thoughts?

Thanx
Mark

NOTE: this pic shows pretty well how the frame was modified at some point to accommodate the Boss 302 motor.

For a nice tidy look, drill out the skidplate holes, heat & lift up the crushed frame section(s) and weld in a tube spacer to reinforce the bolt. Running a skidplate is an excellent upgrade to a Goose especially one running low-profile radial rear tires.

If I still had one, I'd use a 7" (or 5-3/4") double-disc race clutch, a matching small OD flywheel, a reversed starter and trim the bottom of the bellhousing off. One could gain about 3" of badly needed extra ground clearance for maybe $3000.

Got 'recored' radiator back today. Went with 20% increase - staggered tubes and louvered pins while maintaining original look.

Interestingly, they said they had to scrap the first core they made because as they installed it, they realized that this radiator had directly flow through separate baffles on the top and bottom. Said Ferrari had also tried this (probably same radiator company!) in the 60's.

inside looking out

Mark,
So what did you end up with in terms of fluid flow? Are these tanks open end to end now vs having baffles to redirect (twice thru???) ??

What are "directly flow thru separate baffles"?

Was it like the failed Pantera "double flow" radiators that are so scorned today?

Very nice job!!!

Steve
(Has no original radiator to play with.. )

As best I can tell, the owner indicated that the hot coolant comes into a baffle in the top tank, flows down thru a set of tubes (in this case staggered vs the original inline), then back up thru the next set of tubes into the next baffle and then back down, etc. until it exits 'icy cold' (ha).

I didn't see the inside of the tank so I can't confirm the configuration, and am not familiar with Pantera radiator.

Hopefully the staggered tubes and louvered pins will make this goose run a little cooler.

Mark

Stripping well under way. You can see previous rust repair work on door and side panel I had done by PI Motorsports when I bought the car.

pass side

pass front

roof

About this time you might check the whole chassis closely. The last 'Goose I saw in restoration had a cracked frame tube in the left front side near the firewall.... found AFTER a gorgeous paint job and front trunk reupholstery. Made a simple weld repair extremely difficult. Same car also had the e-brake pulley behind the front bumper broken loose and previously repaired by village blacksmiths.... Another difficult fix due to the upholstery & paint.

Couldn't find in forum but has anyone tried alumi blast on bellhousing and ZF? Soda blasted bellhousing today and although its really clean, nothing spectacular to shout about.

A better result can be achieved through Vapour blasting. A bit like a sandblast cabinet with a wiper on the inside. Blasts with water and small round glass type beads. The finish is like new and does not leave finger prints on alloy when touched. Mike

I had my bell housing cleaned by the local transmission shop they put it in rotating steam & solvent cabinet for couple hours. I took it home , re-cleaned with brake cleaner and a little paint stripper VHT caliper clear aerosol paint.

Well, Goose has been at paint shop a long time. Told them up front I wasn't in a hurry and they took me at my word! Expect to get it back beginning of the new year.

Motor top end rebuilt and have decided to build headers to accommodate Boss motor and rear chassis frame. Shortees and normal long pre-fab headers, whether right side up or upside down, just won't fit.

Mufflers are original and tips need to be re-welded to drivers side muffler. Got me thinking, has anyone installed more modern muffler and retained original look? If so, what mufflers have been used? Boss motor will have IDA webers and 1 3/4 OD headers so would like mufflers to not inhibit carb/motor/header combination.

Thanx

I'd love to see some restoration pics of any kind. I've got a goose also. Not sure I'm ready to go down that path,love to see any pics at all of it apart. Dan Mershon 937 605 1505. dan@mershons.com. Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Mershon:
I'd love to see some restoration pics of any kind. I've got a goose also. Not sure I'm ready to go down that path,love to see any pics at all of it apart. Dan Mershon 937 605 1505. dan@mershons.com. Thanks

Dan , I send you a PM whit pictures.
Simon

Well, it's been another year at the paint shop but things appear to be moving forward. So, expect to get the car back in a few months.

I need to address a couple of issues when I get it back (should have done before repaint). Any help or documentation would be greatly appreciated:

- At some point, someone tightened skid plate bolts on lower frame to tight and caused them to 'in dent' top of frame (see box in attached pic). Is this something that must be addressed? And, if so, how best to do it? I have welding capability.

- Steering is very loose/a lot of play, front wheels each appear toed out, and all the rubber steering rack and other boots are torn and need replacement. (have read various posts on this topic to include Johnny Woods detailed post)

As far as I know, skid plates were aftermarket -or at least a factory afterthought, so the hollow tube frame is unsupported where it bolts on. Thus, the tube collapses probably before a reasonable bolt torque is reached. I'd also suspect it would dent in the bottom if the skid plate hit something solid! Adding a small OD pipe inside the frame tube and edge-welding it to the top & bottom of the tube should fix this.

IMHO, a skid plate is worth adding to any Mangusta that's driven on city streets. I have an empty Mangusta diff case in my shop that was the victim of snagging a high-mounted manhole cover in a suburban U.S. street. A 'Goose snagged it at speed and ripped the bottom of the bellhousing and ZF diff-case completely out of the car! LOTS of expensive TIG-welding pieced it together like a metal jigsaw puzzle. The outside looks stock; the inside- wow!

My car never had a skid plate, the oil pan shouldn't protrude too far below the frame. I was looking at an award winning car a few weeks ago and they had instaled a reproduction oil pan. It was way deeper than the lowest point of the bell housing. I crafted myself a new oil pan to avoid any problems eventhough I don't have road clearance issues. I took an early Mustang oil pan and remade it to be full length only a little shallower. It is now 7 3/8 in deep and holds 8 quarts.( yes I have baffles to prevent sloshing and a rear pickup too) In effect I have removed the opening between the deep part of the oil pan and the bell housing lower portion. Should I hit anything it would hit the oil pan first then slide off the back as the oil pan is now just slightly lower than the bell housing. The pan is 18ga steel so it is strong, painted Ford blue so it looks factory, holds more oil so the motor runs a little cooler.

As was explained to me back in 96 or 97, by an original owner of a 7K mile Orange car 8MA716, which later sold on to Europe I believe, he had to "wait" to get his car, until the dealership, some European Auto sale co, IIRC outside of Boston where he was attending college, to install a skid plate before he could get the car! He traded in a Ferrari 275 I believe...some college car!!!

I was so in awe of the car....that I FAILED to bend down and look at the stupid skid plate...!!!! Left 2 or 3 rolls of unused film in the rental car also... duh! Boy, what I would have taken pictures of today if I knew what I know...... IT was and probably still is a VERY nice car, but is suffered from one thing.....lack of use! All of the interior had sort of a fuzz growing on it....where if fingers had been involved...probably wouldn't have been there! It was kept in a climate controlled garage with CAV002 GT40, two 67 Vettes (his and hers of course!) and a Jag XKE that was in progress.

My car seemed to have a few extra holes in the cross member.....that looked sort of caved in also!

What people fail to realize is that these motors were regular old 68 Mustang 302's....and those oil pans were fairly restricted to their use in 68 and 69 from what I know. Many of the 302 oil pans sold as proper....are only the substitute part when you order one from the dealership...or from the aftermarket....(which year pan did they copy????)

The 68 pan from what I recall of crashed and dented lower engine photos, shows a drop in the center front of the sump where the drain plug went. Most later ones have a side dump....and may vary in depth again, because of revisions made and then shown as "backwards compatible" to 1964 or so....!

The stock pans were about even with the bottom of the bellhousing when installed in a Mustang. Check out the next 68 or 69 when you see it at a car show....or around....

I don't like the idea of anything "oil retaining" hanging below the frame rails, especially at the front of the engine..a tapered pan with rear pickup would be good...once your wheels start over a bump, the car rises clearing speed bumps and driveways! Different story for big rocks! ....have heard tales of owners backing out of their driveways and loosening the drain plug...! Bad bad thing!

IF you have a mangled one...they can have the dents worked out with body tools..the pan is pretty danged thick material! Weld up cracks...file it all down. I even saw inserts in the Fastenal or MSC catalog for the threaded portion that the drain plug screws into....the inserts were spot welded into the pans in three spots I believe. Any leakage around this insert was stopped by the nylon gasket on the drain plug. The stock drain plugs were a large headed thing....7/8" or 15/16 or so.....

SOOOO if you really want to be proper and correct, you need to rob a pan from your neighbor's garden variety small block Mustang and give him a "brand new NOS" pan......yuck yuck hah hah! Wouldn't be the first time....

The oil pans are also date coded! Some have a part number stamped in them....but that could be just for special pans like Boss 302's etc.

There are some other posts about skid plates....some rather long...... but who knows how many variations of this were made......

Glad to hear you are "almost" out of body shop jail!!!!

Steve

PS: Note that in the above picture, that the upper frame rail and supports have been changed by a previous owner to accommodate a not stock engine and some REALLY bastardized exhaust manifolds! ...could have built some nice headers.....!

Denis, would love to see pics of your oil pan...Here are pics of the skid plate on '1046, I've seen enough of these (including in the middle of the bare spine chassis of a car in Belgium) to believe that these were made by Detomaso directly...shame on me for not taking measurements or even templates when the car was in my garage...

another view

final view

Thanx for inputs, will probably ensure frame is straight where it's caved from the bolts, and build up a metal piece that looks like this "[" welding it to top-drvside-bottom of frame

Modded frame accommodates 69 Boss 302 with IDA webers, jackshaft removed, and A/C disconnected. Previous owners have told me this frame mod dates back to 69-70 timeframe.

Steve, you are correct, car has a "frankenmanifold" on pass side and OEM manifold on drv side. Since I'm not in a rush (obviously), have all the equipment necessary to build a set of headers that work there way around that mod'd frame. Once motor is back in car will build the headers inch by inch.

My skid plate is exactly like LeeA's.

and the original pan...

Steve, is this what you remember for the correct drain plug ?

It sounds like the Aviaid Mangusta oil pan is not know to you guys? Perhaps I am wrong.

Here is a link to their page on the pan, and here is a picture of it.

The pan is designed to alleviate the clearance issue. I don't have a 'goose so I can't guaranty anything, just that they do make a pan.

http://aviaid.com/shopsite_sc/..._oilpns_sbf-ss3.html

I suppose that you may have a perspective of wanting originality BUT if that is your intent, I think you are going to have ALL of the original oversights?

I would speculate that the value of a Mangusta in the future is going to be to a knowledgeable buyer? If that was me, I'd want the oil pan clearance issue solved?

I believe this pan is 1" shallower like what Shelby did with the 289 in the "Cobra Daytonna Coupes"?

It IS NOT a T pan. The illustration of the pan is not correct. Look at the picture of it.

I broke a drill bit off in that shifter shaft, called a machinist friend who came over with a small hammer and a pick. He picked at it and it slowly fell apart, was out in about ten minutes.

DICK RUZZIN

Here is the oil pan from 8Ma1114. I believe it's the original one but if it isn't, I am sure someone will quickly point it out.

Mark, Lee,

I revise my statement about the oil drain plug....it was toward the side....!!!

I think you guys have the right pans....!!!

Mark: YOU NEED NEW REAR SPRINGS/SHOCKS YESTERDAY!!!

My bellhousing was ground down so far that the bolt holes had no bottom....the holes were reduced to about a 235 degree hole....the rest is out on the roads of CA somewhere!!!!

Steve

Be carefull with the Aviaad pan.....if it is as deep as the stock pan, you will gain nothing for your $5-600!!! You will just have a nice shiny target for driveways and bridge abutments.

I had Armondo build me a 6"ish deep pan, full length, fully baffled, holds 6 qts. I wouldn't call it a racing pan because of the small capacity....but it IS a confidence builder/pucker factor reducer....as I know I will NOT be scraping this mother!!!! Now, the bellhousing still hanging down there is a different story!!!!

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Mangusta:
Mark: YOU NEED NEW REAR SPRINGS/SHOCKS YESTERDAY!!!
Steve

Well yes, but not for that reason. My Mangusta sat so high I could almost drive my GT40 under it. The shocks were fine but I will replace them because I want the car to sit much lower. And, yes, I WILL be fitting a skid plate!

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...ineimg/Y/oil_pan.jpg

...Mark, here is a picture of the most perfect original pan yet , including the oil temp sender and the timing pointer..Lee

Lee,

Nice job!!! Yes that is the correct drain plug!

I cannot say that I have seen that particular way to set the timing. That pointer in that location...... Seems like there are many different/similar solutions so that console center cover need not be disturbed!!!

Did the balancer get remarked or do you take the timing off of a different cylinder??

Lookin' good!!!

Mark, if that bellhousing is from your car....you need new shocks..or your springs are too soft...or both...no matter what the ride height! (Stock DeCarbon shocks or changed...?)

Scraping the bellhousing is caused by either a SERIOUS crown in the road....or serious ass dragging by the suspension allowing the car to sink too low.....there should be travel limiters installed in the shocks....and the springs and shock damping should reduce the excess movement but for the worst of worse cases....then you are on the limiters in the shock to protect you! Perhaps that is why my bellhousing looked so.....similar!

Cheers!
Steve

Electrical ... in prep for car return, I am going to try to rebuild various parts of the wiring 'system' since I am sure all the wire is in less than perfect condition after 48 years! Have searched the forum but can only find selected photos of parts of the wiring...know the question has been asked before, but has anyone got an original wiring diagram or captured their wiring on paper?

Searching the web, looks like Hall Pantera has a wiring diagram for 20 bucks, has anyone bought it? Is it any good?

I'd absolutely recommend getting the diagram but be prepared to make some modifications to match your vehicle! (I assume the factory wiring evolved in areas with time and not sure when the diagram was made). Worst feature is the tiny size - I had it enlarged to 3 x 5' which helps a lot. All in all PLENTY of confusing and/or incorrect details, and wire colors are not noted. That said, the only part that was totally missing was the emergency flash relay, which on my car is under the dash, beside the horn relay. Still, a huge help!

Oops, one other thing poorly addressed is the Carello relays near the fuse panel. It's as if the feed side of the fuse panel got cut off the diagram....no feeds shown at all. If you have questions there I'll try to help! Regards, Nate

I have a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a bad copy.....

.....obviously early....as none of the Carello relays adjacent to the fuse panel are shown!

But that aside....it is somewhat functional at least in Italian as "a suggestion"!

Steve

WELLIS.
It is good to see these De Tomaso books coming out.
Have you seen my book, BELLA MANGUSTA?

Dick Ruzzin

(and apologize in advance to Floridans for my ignorance that Lutz is not Miami --Lee

Mark,

I ran the top connection on my expansion tank to the small connection on the front "Y" Pipe off of the thermostat housing.

The lower expansion tank connection went up to my small connection on the radiator, where-ever it was..... I believe it was at the bottom....

My diagram I posted showed originally the lower connection on the expansion tank tied into the crazy hoses that were the heater shut-off valve circuits. I believe you said that you weren't running a heater???


For testing just connect the main large connections and don't worry about the small stuff. Connect it like it was in a regular Ford! Keep the radiator high enuf to be the "top tank" in a normal car, and just watch the water via the radiator cap there! Keep it simple!!!!

Make some noise!!!!!
Steve

Hi Mark, regarding connections everything I have showing 'stock' plumbing has the small connection low on the radiator going to the lefthand "Y" fitting near the header tank & the lefthand heater valve. Good luck w/ the tests! Regards, Nate

Mark,
Alright! Progress!!!!

Re the relay above the AC condenser fan.....while the connectors from afar appear to perhaps be original style, I have no idea what it is for....unless it is for lights or the fan.

Follow the wires.

As for relays on factory wiring diag's, they are notably missing from copies that I have and what I have heard from others...... The two above/adjacent to the fuse panel are for AC, stuff under the dash..... and radiator fans if memory serves me. Carello....plastic housings....tend to "soften" with heat....!!! Keep some Bosch "relays on a tab" handy.... Don't forget to assure that your ground connector(s) to these relays are making good contact.....thru thick insulation!

Ok, second relay....if this is on RH wall of engine compartment, I would bet that this is a voltage regulator of sorts.

Get numbers off of the cases of both....and you can likely find new replacements! The regulator came in two sizes....20A and 30A or 30-40.....and were paired with the Bosch alternator size....(current).....

These voltage reg's showed up on VW's and others...... IF that is what is is.

Mine was mounted wiring connectors down.....opposite of yours.......

Gobble gobble!!!!
Steve

Lee, good pic's!

If you burn up one of these Carello units, the BOSCH "block" relays work fine. Best is the ones with the mounting tab on them. They come in two flavors, 30 and 40amp. 30's should be sufficient for these cars, excepting some aftermarket fans!

Steve

Thanx Steve/Lee, appreciate it. I'll make voltage regulator disappear as I have installed small racing alternator on front of motor since I pulled jackshaft/generator/A/C to accommodate Weber IDA intake.

Once I get car back from paint, I'll some sleuthing to figure what rear relay might be. Right now, am just building engine test stand wiring so that rear relay isn't a player.

Fan wise, I replaced my radiator fans with two 1500 cfm Zirgo's and used a couple of Bosch relays.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by LeeA:
(Just adding a pic of the Bosch relay Steve mentions, must have been Hall that provided these ~30 years ago...!)--Lee

Thats a turn indicater relais ,this is not what Steve mentions.
Simon

Simon, funny, my brother put them on 30 years ago after getting them from Hall...even his German should be good enough to recognize "warnblinkgeber" (but shows how long the car hasn't been run...!). Could this have been a re-use of the Bosch box (as done here http://www.pantera-electronics...signal%20flasher.htm ) ? I'm about 10,000 miles from the car for a few months, will be eager to open up the can...! Lee