Mangusta Engine Removal and Rebuild

OK who cut an paste "me" in that picture?

From L to R; DenisC, Carbo, Andriyko, Mic, DavidB. Missing (behind the lenz) MarkCharlton

...good to see my own car for the first time in just over 2 years since Covid At first glance, it could have been your's or Denis' car ! In my car, the only 3 things that are yellow are the polished brass water tank and the Lucas 4ST solenoid on the right...4ST was the right solenoid by the time 1076 was actually built, but I've got a silver zinc 2ST waiting on the shelves there (that just looks to weird not to use!). Lastly, the air valve on the smog pump is yellow zinc/cad---yes, I at least want it back in place on the right of the car, even if a working system (esp, air injectors won't work with the Hall headers on the car now) is a long way from installation.

I love the look of yellow zinc, but it may be a 70's and later thing and (Dick has emphasized this) (except for some with yellow rear springs) there is really no yellow on the car.  Even, a lot of fasteners I replaced with nice shiny clear zinc, um, are 'correct' in black. For example, a lot of the M10 nylock nuts in the engine bay are clear zinc with yellow or red inserts...brand new shiny yellow-insert nylocks are available (not cheap, but only a few needed) but the big screws are supposed to be black. This makes the engine bay pretty much a black hole, esp when the carpeted trays are in place. Pretty much, in the rear is the spare tire, forward is the air-cleaner, and on the sides are the air tubes with the aluminum trays above all that. I can understand why a little yellow glimmer is not 'correct' but pretty darn eye-catching...

For the vinyl edging that goes around the lower engine bay--of course the original stuff is fake chrome, but the golden look after aging (see the pics of 8ma1074) against the red is so cool that I've ordered yellow-gold edging instead...maybe it will be too brash, I hope so .

The detail I  haven't even attempted is the undercoating texture in the engine bay--everything is smooth epoxy. Original was a wonderful splatter everywhere--and I wish I knew how to get those textures.

Detail painting in the engine bay isn't done, I will someday detail as I saw 8ma1074 (half-black on the engine latches, across the rear bulkhead, and of course the engine covers).

Some day...meanwhile, just great to have free storage at the brother's house and have time to think about the trivial details (since I can't be there to actually get the car in one piece and drive )--Lee

Another dive into the abyss

It really wasn't that bad of a pull, now to start on the suspension and engine bay restoration!!!  Which of course begins with cleaning the huge pile of parts.

@leea did you keep the internals of your engine stock?  I know you were a proponent of the 331 Stroker, but I never asked which route you took.

I will get the engine shop started on checking out the engine and giving it a refresh/rebuild next week...  while they do their thing I'll be making a list of needs, wants and questions!

As always, suggestions/advice/warnings/etc. are ALL welcome

MH

Mike, the decisions on the rebuild were made so long ago, but the only mods I made were to have the conn rods polished and shot peened (you know, why not) but then for spec only went with a more aggressive hydraulic camshaft. That requires modifying the heads for an adjustable rocker setup, so screw-in studs and guide plates. Pretty ordinary work for an engine shop. Since the original cam was the same thing probably used in station wagons (and since the heads are closed chamber and have  healthy compression ratio, friendly to more cam already).

  A stroker kit and a roller cam would be a super nice setup--but in the big picture, completely unnecessary and (expecting that the core of your engine is healthy), just the minimum bore with new rings and balancing will keep you happy.

In the meanwhile, great time to scrub up and DP90 the frame...If you want to re-install the water valves, you might trace the brackets on my car and the valves are easy to find. Boots for the heim joints, finding some modern replacement for the asbestos heat shields up front, new rubber hoses everywhere--are a nice gift for a 53 year old car...Lee

If money is tight, ultimate horsepower is not a goal, the block is not too worn and it already has certain types of forged pistons, they can run with as much as 0.005" of clearance, since they expand greatly with heat. In such cases, you can get away with a good honing and re-use well cleaned used pistons with new rings.This is a "freshening", not a complete overhaul and is commonly done in all kinds of racing engines. Honing is far cheaper since less set-up is needed and you wind up with stronger (thicker) cylinder walls.

But if you have cast (stock or hypereutectic) pistons in a used block, an economy  freshening will not work and you're stuck with overboring and new pistons. Good luck.

...and if you are really lucky, the crank is worn and needs replacement with a longer stroke . But if unlucky, just a really nice running motor is not a bad thing in an old car...Lee

We'll find out soon enough if the crank is worn...  I'm having the block, crank and heads checked out.  Turns out the cam was a "Moon" aftermarket model, so I'll be looking at options there as well.

Anyone have sources for the rubberized padding/soundproofing along the firewall?

Are these sheet metal panels to the left and right of the engine factory or added? They are thin sheet metal with some sort of fiberglass insulation behind them.  They are mounted to (4) 1" standoffs each from the outer walls

Also, should the frame (for lack of a better term) be glossy or semi-gloss finish?

Thanks,

MH

Mike, almost everywhere, I went with just DP90 epoxy primer, which can end up with a maybe ~60% sheen when sprayed a little wet on a cool day.  Big brother had painted the frame with Imron in the 80's, which is a super durable paint with high gloss...and it looked like hell, really, too thick and glossy and I took it off. DP90 is incredibly durable, it sticks like mad and protects  wonderfully (I had patio furniture I painted in it alone and it lasted for years...).

I wish I could find something 'right' to replace the bitumen-infused felt along the front sides there, I finally went back with rubber sheet but I wish there was something more like the original (which is kind of a bitumen board).  Bitumen felt seems to be easier to get in Europe, but pretty much all application for cars has otherwise shifted from less toxic asphalt. Metal and fiberglass is someone's later replacement, though it looks like the window frames for the asbestos are still there. I went with solid aluminum sheets there (instead of the open frames)--Lee

What are your thoughts on DP90 w/topcoat vs. POR-15 w/topcoat?

I've gone through much of my archives and don't see those sheetmetal panels on any other cars and the standoffs seem a bit modern. The asbestos pieces are just screwed to the panels.

MH

Por-15 is great for things like inside the doors or wheel wells (where the purpose is to build a swimming pool film that won't allow water to linger in the seams...). But I wouldn't use it for the frame, it will be too thick, its not really meant to be sprayed but brushed. Pretty much, you just want the frame to not be ugly--but don't need it to be the center of focus. DP90 will give you the protection and won't look wrong.

  For the suspension pieces, I did go with thicker, glossy paint. I only went with powder coating on the front A-arms, but you would probably be happy with the 11 rear pieces (the 4 long rearward rods, the upper and lower A-arms, the torsion bar and the uplinks) with a bit of a contrast in gloss...Lee

the 2 front panels have a tar paper cover insulating the gas tank on one side and the storage compartment on the other.  The lower portion has an asbestos like protection within a frame.  SteveL (Mangusta) restored these somewhere on this forum.

What is this thing in the braking system?

Looks like a non-adjustable brake proportioning valve. Similar to those in the Pantera.

Larry

@lf-tp2511 posted:

Looks like a non-adjustable brake proportioning valve. Similar to those in the Pantera.

Larry

Thanks Larry, I thought that was what it is, but going through my archives i haven't seen them on other Mangustas...  wasn't sure if it was original or added.

MH

...aka "brake compensator", this one was used on Ferrari (275 or 330?) and also Miura, the bracket seems unique to Mangusta. Mr. Fiat sells a rubber cap ("Miura brake distribution valve rubber cap" over the end, I haven't looked yet for the spring clip.  OKP sells a replacement assembly.  http://www.miuraworkshop.com/tav25.html

Update Sept 2022; the compensator is being repro'd. even for less than 300 euro. Search Ebay for a Ferrari 250 or Miura regulator  (REGOLATORE DI FRENATA, even Fiat 4321182). Expect the threads to NOT be British inch for at least the Fiat AR76 application.

Update Oct 2022; from the Miura website, showing pure metric fittings (but using the Girling ball ends on the lines).

The Pantera version is different, 01310a /b - VALVE ASSY PRESSURE CONTROL . There is a charity/business online that had some repair pieces for Pantera (for just $10, how is that not charity... https://www.musclecarresearch....a-prop-valve-autopsy ) but I have no idea if they work with the Goose piece. See also  http://www.panteraplace.com/page199.htm

  The clear PVC tubing to cushion the plumbing to the tabs is original.

fyi, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194...7:g:Pu4AAOSwbrlc-nEV

....maybe the closest thing available to the bitumen-felt .... 66 euro for shipping from Germany seems like a bargain these days..!

The bitumen-filz was used everywhere on the Goose, at least for interior padding and also on the rear bulkhead. I saw one comment, that bitumen for car interiors has been disallowed (legally) for car interiors, my guess its both toxic and makes a great candle...So closed cell foam is another option...Lee

10mm sounds about right.  1.5m x 1m size... 

Sad when shipping costs more than the item...  They do combine shipping...  Anyone else need some?

MH

@mkeh posted:

Thanks Larry, I thought that was what it is, but going through my archives i haven't seen them on other Mangustas...  wasn't sure if it was original or added.

MH

My car is 8MA888 and it has the same unit. As far as I know the brake system has never been modified. I may be late to the party on this, but here is a shot of me dropping my engine back in. Jackshaft can stay on, but she needs to do a pretty strong "nose dive" to get the required clearance.

WOW! Youse guys with the hoist abilities makes me jealous!!!   My "breakdown" hoist does not have the abilities of these seen here with the adjustable top arm. So I had to wing it!

Here's my alternative to removing/dropping it all in at once!  If you have ceiling clearance issues, or a fixed hoist upper arm, or an uneven work surface (floor!) this could come in handy.

The bellhousing can have issues with the shock tower area, if you cannot get enough vertical lift!  That is a LOT of weight swinging around up high at full clearance of all parts involved!     The factory photos show a special engine/ZF jig that allows the assembly to be tipped at an extreme nose down attitude such that I believe (could be wrong) that they slipped the engine in with the jackshaft and front pulley in place.

After loosening the front mounts, removing any and all hose connections (fuel and water-radiator & heater hoses), oil & water temp sender unit wiring, taking loose the headers (or completely out), starter, AC pump, and alternator, (smog pump) removed, oil filter removed (may not be necessary if you have a shortie filter installed) and removing the ZF upper rear mount and the shock tower ladder bar, wrap the ZF in straps securely and use your hoist to lift and separate (HAH!) the ZF from the engine.

At this point, the bellhousing and block plate are still potentially able to bugger up the shock tower paint....and require a higher lift. so I simply removed the bellhousing at this point along with the clutch and flywheel after which the block plate comes out as well.

While the nose of the engine is tilted downwards, you should be able to remove the jackshaft front pulley.... it will make engine removal easier.

Now with this stripped down engine, the tilt required to get clearance for the front of the jackshaft should be minimal and lifting the engine out should be a piece of cake once you remove the final nuts or bolts from the engine mounts.

I think that is it, but I reserve the right to forget something!!!

Hopefully this will help someone who is considering doing this job.  Even MH when putting his newly restored engine back in place!!!!! Are you done yet?????

I've (unfortunately) had to do this procedure three times, AND I live to tell the tale!!!

Vroom vroom!!!
Steve

Can someone enlighten me too? Please?

"One of my favorite Binky episodes is the most recent one--even after 36 episodes of making brackets... The issue they had with their flex shaft (where the inertia of the accessories was tearing it apart and so they built the clutch function on it) was pretty amazing. Thanks for the tip on that channel so long ago-"