Pulling the transaxle need advise.

You'll probably have to temporarily jack the car a bit to pull the starter (and probably a couple bolts going through the flywheel cover plate into the bellhousing, and maybe unclip or unbolt e-brake cables underneath). I jack the rear crossmember but use a wood block to distribute the load. I put jack stands under the longitudinal frame rails, just line up so as not to bend the welds/crimps etc.

After you've disconnected those, you should be able to let it back down. You'll pull the transaxle out the top.

I don't think I have ever supported the engine--should be pretty well balanced on its motor mounts. But certainly wouldn't hurt to put a block of wood under somewhere safe.

You'll of course still need to disconnect the half-shaft bolts, the shifter rod coming into the ZF (I just push out a roll pin there), the side mounts from the ZF I think if a -2 model or the rear mount if a -1 model, and the large nut encircling the speedo cable connecting it onto the ZF. You'll also need to unbolt the AC condensor assembly from the car frame (don't disconnect any AC lines) and set it over to the quarter panel etc. onto a blanket. I have had to also remove the condensor grill but that's just 4 bolts, to get rearward clearance to pull it free, but you may not need to. And you'll unbolt the clutch slave somehow, can probably remove a couple circlips to slide out the slave cylinder once you've disconnected the linkage arm from the splines on the throwout shaft. And of course the bellhousing-to-block bolts but read below just in case you can pull without the bellhousing.

Once it's free I've used slings and a hoist to help pull it out, straight over the rear of the car, just be careful to not hit the decklid, the latch stuff and so on. Could be done with just human effort but weighs over 150 pounds so may be dicey, though with slings and boards and 2 or more people can be done. Most I think pull it complete with bellhousing. Assuming it's a -2 model, there are a couple internal bolts that IF a former owner left out, could be pulled without the bellhousing and save some of the above removal time (starter, slave, the couple flywheel plate bolts).

I don't think you need to grease the throwout bearing but probably not a bad idea to replace the pilot bushing or pilot bearing, that you would grease somewhat. Which to use is a whole other debate I won't address. If you go with a bushing, nonferrous is recommended, that Marlin Jack on here machines & sells if you need one. I'm not aware of any bushing option if it's a -1 (see tag on lower driver's side of transaxle's shifter box, which # it ends in). Assuming it's a -2 you now have choices apparently.

Some others may have a correction or two, but it's not that hard a project.

Hope this helps,

Lee

Great response. I don't think I have AC. There is no condenser in the back, so unless it is connected to the upgraded radiator in the front, I can ignore the AC stuff. The car was my dad's, and after he rebuilt the engine it revved to high for the stock AC compressor, so I suspect he removed the AC.

Yeah, no AC issue other than maybe the grill removal. A couple other things I thought of, you'll definitely have to also remove the spreader bar if you pull with bellhousing, probably not if can pull without bellhousing. And I'd be inclined to not remove the throwout arm from the shaft splines if you can avoid it. You'll have to disconnect the slave rod end from that bracket anyway to get the slave out the top of the slave bracket as I recall. Leaving the lever arm on the throwout cross-shaft will make for easier slave adjustment when you reinstall, IF the new throwout bearing doesn't change the throw any internally. If you do have to remove it, mark it somehow. Some/most Panteras are challenged on getting good clutch adjustment (so once you get it, try to avoid having to readjust it unnecessarily).

Thanks. I have determined that mine is dash 2. I would love to pull it without the bell housing, but from what you wrote it sounds like that is only possible if it were not put together correctly the last time it was out. Is that correct?

I wouldn't say leaving out the 2 bottom bolts is necessarily incorrect. They aren't essential and makes things easier down the road when you're in the situation you're in now.

I use a 1x6 about a foot long at the back of the oil pan, on the rear flange. The board is about 2 inches longer that the space between the floor and the rear of pan. I remove the side trans mounts and axle flanges. I jack the car up by the rear x member and insert the 1x6, As I lower the car it pushes up on the rear of the motor and holds it there while I slip off the zf, bellhouse and all. I have gotten pretty good at it too! Bill 1362

One more thing.... the bolts that hold the bell to the block are safer to remove that the ones in the aluminum zf. I removed the bell house from my dash 1 and it stripped the aluminum that surrounds the bolts from the zf. I still don't know what I'm gonna have to do, I guess take it to a shop that can weld aluminum....

Good advise, and that is too bad. Aluminum is hard to weld. Good luck. I hope that you can get it fixed.

Icole, the two bolts referred to are large metric allen bolts inside the bellhousing, added by Ford/DeTomaso/ZF to stiffen up the joint between bellhousing and transaxle. Leave them out at your risk. Pushbutton Panteras with the transitional dash-1-1/2 ZF & sand-cast 2-hole bellhousing did not have these.
And there are two MORE little 10mm bolts down on the bottom/outside of the bellhousing that hold the block-protection plate to the bellhousing so as to prevent vibration noise. These are routinely forgotten until the ZF won't come out even with all the visible-from-the-top bolts removed.
Note that pulling the ZF or engine is thoroughly documented/illustrated on Mike Daily's gigantic www.panteraplace.com website.

...I Believe there are 3 Bolts holding the Lower Cover Plate to the Bellhousing!!...

I had a few hours today, and removed the brace above the trans, disconnected the half shafts, hood and shift linkage. WHen I remove the slave cylinder it looks like I can take two bolts out to free it from the bell housing, and one more to free it from the throwout mechanism. It appears that I can put it back without changing how it is adjusted. here is a picture. Am I wrong?

Also my instructions say that I must remove the starter motor. Is that true?

My point on that was mainly to remove that shiny (probably stainless) bolt below your slave boot, which will free the slave from the lever arm that bolt connects the slave's rod end to. You can then do whatever seems easiest above that point to free the slave from the bellhousing, assuming you're also pulling the bellhousing along with the ZF. It's not really critical which way you choose to do that, whether to remove the slave from its bracket or the bracket from the bellhousing. Don't forget about the other things then (starter, 2 or maybe 3 bolts under bottom of bellhousing, speedo cable, etc.). Pull the ground clamp off battery before pulling starter, just in case you didn't know.

Lee

icole, the pic looks pretty detail corroded. the slave slips in a collar that bolts to the bell. It looks like your slave has become "one" .there are clips that keep the outer dia of the slave in the bolted holder. Am I wrong? You should spray it with rust solvent and scratch it with a brush first..Your aluminum may break like mine did! You need to take everything apart, without damage..SOAK it with a mix of tranny fluid and acetone.. Bill 1362

Thank you Lee

If I didn't have a 1 and 3 year old I probably would have finished removing it today.

I don't mean to be critical here, but that slave cyl looks pretty bad, and it doesn't look anything like any Pantera slave cyl that I have ever seen. The steel line has been silver soldered into the two fittings, and the bleeder screw is at the lowest point, instead of the highest point. The slave cyl would need to be removed and tilted so that the bleeder screw is at the highest point in order to completely purge the air.

Given the appearance of the outside of the slave cyl, I would be concerned about the slave's inside, although the pealed-back boot seems to be dry (for now).

And Marlin is correct, there are 3 bolts attaching the lower (portion) of the flywheel cover plate (aka spacer plate).

Yes, remove the starter.

John

Last push. Is the bell housing aluminum too. The bolts I want to remove hold the bracket too the bell housing.

quote:

Is the bell housing aluminum too.

Yes, it is aluminum.

John

icole, You got some great listers here that only want to help. JB and I both have swapped from dash 1 to 2 trannys. Lee is on his second P car. What is the vin of your car? Can you supply a pic of the trans bay area? so as to give us an idea. what is the condition? can you drive it? JB, made a great obsevation about the slave bleed being down, rather than up. That can make NOTHING with the trans or clutch work! Tell us more.. Bill

OK I had to crop this and save it at 0 quality to get under 200kb.
The car ran until my dad did a red-line clutch dump. As bad as the slave looks it definitely moves. It is the first thing that I checked. If I have time I will post pics of the front mechanical. The master cylinder appears to be aftermarket.

icole, you just gave up the biggest piece of info."the car ran fine until my dad did a red line clutch dump"that probley tore up the clutch disc ,pressure plate.does this trans have a inspection window on the bellhousing it would be just under that MSD box. if so remove it,look down into the clutch area while someone works the clutch pedal see what you can find out before you take apart

The window is visible in the above pic. You can see the red/orange pressure plate. Rotate the engine so that the mounting "foot" of the pressure plate is not visible through the window. Now you will be able to see the clutch disc. Have someone press the clutch pedal to the floor and hold it there. There should be a small gap between the clutch disc and pressure plate and flywheel. With the trans in neutral, you should be able to move/rotate the clutch disc using a long, thin screwdriver.

You can also try what I posted here:

http://tinyurl.com/Clutch-disc

John

So the starter has two bolts right? It seams I have to take one out from under the car, and the other from on top. At this point I have everything off except the starter and the bolts holding the bell housing to the engine. I am considering not supporting the engine as LEe suggests. If anyone has had a problem with that please chime in. Thanks a lot.
Ian

Sorry one more thing. I have not undone the frame mounts for the trans axle. I am assuming that I should pull the large bolts that go through the bushings on the frame rails. However it occurred to me that I could remove the 3 nuts on the sides of the mount where the mounts attach to the trans-axle. Am I correct about which bolts to undo?

Technically I've only pulled a -1 but now have a -2 so will eventually have to be where you are (Type 1s ordinarily have just a rear mount though I had added extra side mounts but they still didn't use the same bracketry onto the frame rails as you're now facing). If I'm not mistaken the problem with what you're proposing is you'll then have to bend down/back the rear tab behind that bushing on each side, to clear as you pull the ZF out. Some are OK with that. But to avoid that you'd have to instead remove the 3 bolts from each side. Since as I recall 1 bolt on each side isn't the easiest to get to or get/keep a socket on, it may take some time. I think I've even seen where someone advocated going back with studs in those holes to make easier to reinstall and/or pull in the future. Someone else with a more accurate description may chime in, but this may keep you moving until then.

Lee

I don't mind bending the tabs, as long as they don't break. Is it possible to remove the 2 large bolts, and the mount on the passenger side, and then move the trans-axle sideways to clear the drivers side frame mount. the gear shift mechanism is what makes removing the mount from the trans-axle tricky. The 3 bolts on the passenger side are all accessible.

In your pic above, it appears that the side mounts are attached to the ZF with nuts, although it isn't clear.

If the side mounts are attached to the ZF with nuts, then you can't remove the side mounts, as there is not enough room to slide the side mount off the studs. You will have to bend the tabs.

If the side mounts are attached to the ZF with bolts, then the side mounts can easily be removed from the ZF and chassis without bending the tabs.

John

In pull about 20 trans a year and I do bend the tabs to get it out, but putting it in it is easyer to have the mounts off. You do have to have the engine lifted also, otherwise you will not have enough room to pull the box. With the trans still bolted to the block jack up the back of the trans so that you can remove the side mount, and get about 2 inch thick board under the rear part of the pan. If you have a large dist cap remove that, then I wrap a chain around the stub axles and above the case and use the hoist to take it out, it save my back.Once you get it out change the throw out bearing , check to see if the front seal to see if it looks like it is leaking.

Hey icole what kink of slave is that? can you adjust free play? Your spring brkt is bent badly, might want to look at that. When you lift the box and support the engine with the board you put it on the crossmember under the pan at the back of the pan.

John.
They are nuts, so I would have to clear the studs. Bill. Thanks for the input, I am glad to hear from someone with so much experience. I don't know where that slave came from. My dad rebuilt the engine10 years ago. Eventually I will get a new one, but I will make it work for now. AS for that spring bracket it is no longer bent, because I broke it off removing the bolt behind it. I will engineer some temporary solution for the spring, until I get new parts. The bracket is on the control arm connected to the shaft that goes into the trans-axle not the slave cylinder.

That slave looks like one for a Mangusta where the transaxle is upside down (in reference to a Pantera anyway).

I have the trans-axle out. The throw out bearing looks fine. The clutch is labeled Centerforce performance. Is that the original clutch?

quote:

Originally posted by icole:
I have the trans-axle out. The throw out bearing looks fine. The clutch is labeled Centerforce performance. Is that the original clutch?

Centerforce is aftermarket. Even though the throwout bearing "looks fine", change it while you have everything apart. You can't see micro defects in the bearings that may lead to a failure later.

I took the clutch off. The disk was shot. some of the friction surface had broken off. I am taking the disk and pressure plate to a local clutch shop, to order replacements. My flywheel is aluminum with a steel friction surface. Is this normal. The flywheel is in great shape, so I got lucky there.

quote:

Originally posted by icole:
.... My flywheel is aluminum with a steel friction surface. Is this normal. The flywheel is in great shape, so I got lucky there.

Stock flywheel was all iron. Aluminum is aftermarket. When installing a Centerforce clutch, you either have to re-drill your stock flywheel, or buy a new one with the matching hole pattern.

Your aluminum flywheel's steel surface can be repaired by the mfgr. Just send it back and they'll un-rivit the old steel plate and re-rivit a new one on quite cheaply. Most alum flywheels are drilled for two or three different clutches in case you don't want another Centerforce. Centerforce also uses larger diameter bolts.
I'd not only replace the throwout bearing, I'd also replace the pilot bushing in the end of the crankshaft. These two parts are so difficult to get at in a Pantera, and reasonably priced that its cheap insurance to r & r them whenever they're exposed.

Does that mean that I must use a centerforce clutch?

While the ZF is out you might want to index the flywheel with timing marks. Much easier to time the engine. Blacken the edge of the flywheel with lye and use white or yellow for your markings.

Mark

I've been through this with Centerforce. I was switching from dash1 to 2 and all I needed was a disc. They will only sell the disc with a new pressure plate. The Ceterforce is good to about 400 hp. Bill 1362