Sacc Wilwood 6 piston with stock disc conversion

added protective fire sleeves around the parking brake cable on both sides to protect from chafing and from the heat from the exhaust headers.
Secured the parking brake cable to the A-arm with stainless steel zip ties (protected the arm first with electric tape then a rubber grommet, then the zip ties )

clearance to the half shaft is well over 1/2” and the cable is absolutely secure!

for securing the hydraulic line I drilled and taped a M5 hole in the webbing of the A-arm and used a clamp that allows movement….

Nice job Roland.  Thanks for sharing your experience with your vendor "Control Cables, Inc.".  Need to spread the word regarding great vendors.  Larry

Nicely done.  That reminds me that I need to go back and clean my cable management up after doing a similar brake upgrade.

finally, I got the heat shields for the front brake back from Powder coating!

original pretty rusted but now all good again!

Now I’m moving again

new seals

Here a look at the different size pistons front caliper

not sure if I mentioned before but I always chase the threads ( lubed and turn - turn and back off - and again..) and clean the threads afterwards with brake cleaner so the blue Loctite has a chance!

Front calibers are mounted (108 foot pounds of torque in the confined area is scary. Anything slips your faces is toast)

brake lines installed, master is filled

Roland,  Looking Good, At this rate you will have it on the road in no time.  Larry

And I got brake pressure and no leak!

the pedal is getting hard is about 1 3/4 maybe 2 inches rock solid..

i’m sure I got some air trapped somewhere… Being one man show so…

I’ll give it another go tomorrow.

but all in all , I’m very very happy not bad at all!

Oh… did I mention that the parking brake actually is holding the car! I can torque the wheels with the wheel in the air, and it does not move at all!

@Lardog posted:

Roland,  Looking Good, At this rate you will have it on the road in no time.  Larry

You are right… If I wouldn’t do aaaaaall the other things… 🤪

just doing every day a little bit - and don’t get complacent..

Well, it’s done… I hope they brake as good as they look… new system from foot to road…

new Pantera brake discs are not off the table but it takes time… working on it!

thanks to everyone!! 🙏

now I’m moving on to the external fuel filler…. https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...rnal-fuel-filler-mod

One last thing… does anyone have an intact screw on cap for the original clutch or brake master reservoir.. they seem to be the same…. With the rubber inside..

I need one… DM me… PayPal…

hope this thread was helpful… ✌️

I’m curious to hear how the six piston calipers feel on stock diameter rotors, in normal driving.  Please let us know!

I sure will give a total test report on the brakes after she is technically done… hoping  in April…

thinking about it… I will actually let an experienced Pantera owner/driver from this forum run my car and report.. I don’t have any seat-time in the car… what do I know!!

Lemans850, those screw-on plastic master cylinder caps always crack from tension at the first thread unless you leave them loose... and then they leak. The caps can sometimes be found in wrecking yards on old Volvos, FIATS, some Brit cars but they're always suspect after all this time.

If you want to fix the cracking forever, go to <pegasusautoracing.com> in WI)  and get their ALUMINUM cap (pn 3549). Fits perfectly and could be painted black if the as-cast look is a problem. I put mine on 30 yrs ago & so far zero problems.

@bosswrench posted:

Lemans850, those screw-on plastic master cylinder caps always crack from tension at the first thread unless you leave them loose... and then they leak. The caps can sometimes be found in wrecking yards on old Volvos, FIATS, some Brit cars but they're always suspect after all this time.

If you want to fix the cracking forever, go to <pegasusautoracing.com> in WI)  and get their ALUMINUM cap (pn 3549). Fits perfectly and could be painted black if the as-cast look is a problem. I put mine on 30 yrs ago & so far zero problems.

Thank you bosswrench! Super information!

you would not believe how much this flimsiness was bugging me!

I just ordered 2 of them!

👍👍🙏

That was an excellent lead! New lids for the reservoir!

I don’t know if it was posted anywhere already… the nut for the front wheel spindles are from Fiat 500 – Fiat 850  Still available! The nut with the groove in the corners of the hexagon is left-hand side the one without right hand side!

I am still working on getting new original size Detomaso Pantera brake discs for front and rear made!

does anyone know the original thickness of the brake discs? The minimum brake disc thickness is cast into the original ones, but I have no reference anywhere what the original thickness was! Front minimum 19 mm rear minimum 17.5 mm.

Most U.S literature refers to '0.875' (std) and 1.25" (Gr-5 & racing) thickness rotors even though the real dimensions are likely metric. I don't think its very critical- enough to finger-fit a brake pad in place.

@LeMans850i posted:

I am still working on getting new original size Detomaso Pantera break discs for front and rear made!

does anyone know the original thickness of the brake discs? The minimum break disc thickness is cast into the original ones, but I have no reference anywhere what the original thickness was! Front minimum 19 mm rear minimum 17.5 mm.

It's likely your Wilwood calipers were designed to be used on a specific rotor width, that's different than the OEM rotors. In fact, probably wider. Look at the part numbers on the boxes and look it up on the Wilwood web site. That info will give you a few more options when looking for rotors. SACC might even have two piece rotors in close-to-OEM dimensions. 

That would translate to 22 mm for the front disc… 19mm being minimum then I would go for 20 mm in the back..

I cannot find anybody who can reproduce the brake discs for a reasonable amount without making 10,000 of them…

i’m going to try another way… and unless somebody found already a substitute that fits the 15 inch wheels

On my all-Wilwood braking system (front and back), I used Porsche 911 (early version with 15" wheels). They fit stock AND Wilwood calipers, but need a thick aluminum spacer/adapter to bolt on. The rear discs also need lathe machining to fit the Pantera uprights and axle flanges. The ODs match the Pantera discs, too. Larry Stock at PanteraParts.com sells these.

@LeMans850i posted:

I cannot find anybody who can reproduce the brake discs for a reasonable amount without making 10,000 of them…

i’m going to try another way… and unless somebody found already a substitute that fits the 15 inch wheels

You need to go into the current race car circuit. There you will find existing companies that will make any rotor for you.

How much do they cost? Don't ask but they are still less expensive then you can do yourself presuming that you put a value on your own labor time.

I will say that because the original Pantera rotors are solid, you really can cut them past the original posted minimums. That is for most street use and if you are doing a lot of "open tracks" events, you need to go to a system that is easier and more economical to replace at the track on track day.

The rotors themselves generally are ok to over cut but at some point there is a safety factor for limiting the amount of travel that the caliper pistons should be used to. That is affected by the thickness of the rotor.

The original Pantera is just a hybrid of so many parts, including the brakes and I seriously doubt there was any consideration to the car existing 50 years into the future?

I personally have seen experienced "Vintage Racers" go through two or three rotors and pads IN PRACTICE before the race even starts.

At the time that came to $100-150 per corner so it gets a bit pricey just on brakes, not even counting the tires so it isn't as simple as just driving the car to the track, running it, and then driving it home.

You need a plan first and that includes all of the above considerations.

There aren't any vendors that can sell replacement rotors to you at $30 each that don't originate in Taiwan. They are modifications of another application

Lemans,  I meant to congratulate you on your front brake hose restraints- very neat. For those who don't realize, those dot-3 stainless braid hoses move around a lot during driving, and the stainless braid is quite a bit harder than magnesium wheels. One club member had his machine a groove in one wheel- which is only 0.185" section thickness. It was deep enough to cause that wheel to be scrapped. And if you go with stock rubber, the spinning wheel will wear away the rubber hose..... Tie the darn things down!

Lemans, can I trouble you for the model number of your front calipers ? They look like the Dynapro 6A s and I know they are handed. The piston diameter would be enough to determine it if you know that .

Also was there a model reference on the lug mount adaptor ?

Thankyou

At the risk of being crushed by the forums collective knowledge and opinions, of which there are many ,I did have a look at the front rotor question with respect to current Wilwood products.

The best Hat option would appear to be

The PCD , Hub center and offset appear to be spot on. The application note says this is a Pantera specific part. It is similar to the blank hat but with all the hard machining work done and all the dimensions seem to line up .I could not find the face thickness to check that dimension, but we should be grateful Wilwood are offering this product.

Remember you only have to buy the hats once !

Rotor options are available in either 0.81( 3 off)  or 1.25 inches ( 2off ) .

Here are the 0.81 inch by 12.2 inch  rotor options to match this hat:

Here are the 1.25 inch by 12.2 inch  rotor options:

The four piston FSLI Symmetrical Caliper dimensions look like they will go on these rotor widths and still fit in a 15 inch standard rim.

The 12.2 rotors are 6.1 inch radius  plus the caliper clearance gives a 6.85 outside clearance requirement without andy gap.

The inside surface of the std 15 inch rim at my best measurement 14.35 inches giving a radius of 7.18 inches. Anyone else with another measurement on the inner diameter please speak up.

This should give just enough clearance ( around 5/16") for the occasional adhesive wheel weight to go rocketing past.

You can get these to suit both rotor widths

0.81inch width with a 1.25 inch diameter pistons

1.25 inch with 1.38 inch diameter pistons

I did have a look at the six piston dynapro options :

At an outside radius of 6.97 inches on the 12.2 inch rotor you only have around 0.2 or 3/16 of an inch. Not enough for any  wheel weight clearance and getting pretty close to the nelly, but a miss is a mile!

These are all straight off the shelf - no machining required.

Lemans will probably let us know down the track !

Cheers.

Just for a fun comparison here is a four piston Dynpro caliper mounted on an oversized 12.6 inch rotor sitting inside a 15 inch rim.

Still fits but only just . Wheel weights would likely be toast and jam depending on where they were mounted.

.

I think the 12.2 inch rotors that match the Pantera hat as offered by Wilwood would clear just fine and would be a perfect choice dimensionally.

@Percy I will see what I can find… I still have the original boxes, but I do not know if their part number is on it

Thanks Lemans!