I purchased mine 2-3 years ago after calling Centric to confirm that they were discs only, no integral hub. I believe I ordered mine from Summit Racing. Maybe call Centric like I did or call Summit Racing and see if you can get someone to go open a box.
Steve
I just searched eBay for separate rotors. If you study the listings, some of them will mention it is a hub and rotor combination. But many depict a separate rotor with no details in the auction
I sent messages to four sellers asking if they could confirm that the photo of a single rotor matches what they will supply and they have all replied they have all the information available listed in the auction.
Doubtful if any of them are separate rotors.
Larry
Here's a nice hub if you are going in deep. Just FYIing it to you
Here's a set of original rotors.
I purchased a set of those Porsche discs from Larry before going this route. The Porsche discs are an aluminum hat that he has machined to fit the Pantera hub, bolted to the cast rotor with maybe 6 5/16" bolts if I remember correctly. The set I received were machined so bad that they were not useable. I sent them back to him and explained the situation. He wanted to send me another set, but I've been disappointed enough by vendors to have learned my lesson. Then I called Centric and went the Mustang way. Maybe as you said you can cut the center out and machine down to the 7.75mm thickness and use washers behind the hats. Thats what needs to be done on the Wilwood hats. That said look into a set of Wilwood hats and rotors. Scott (SACC) should be able to help with that.
Steve
Yet another interesting one.
You might also read this thread from earlier this year
I'm not surprised there was a switch. This seems to be continuous across the industry. It is a 65-67 Mustang front rotor and has been one piece with the hub for four or five years WITHOUT a part number change or even a notation. Been there, done that.
Considering that fact, personally I am in the group that says if "we" are going to screw around with making a rotor for the rear, make it vented and so it mounts over the wheel hub so it is simple to remove to have resurfaced without tearing the rear assemblies apart.
@tsolo bursting bubbles….. I would have thought the Porsche disc would be the hot ticket… price wise it’s going to be a tossup between Porsche and Mustang… machine shop time will compensate.. LOL..
do you have any pics of the Porsche setup?
@panteradoug. I think you are absolutely right… 65/66 mustang front brakes are ALL now one piece… A handful of foundries in China and the difference in price is probably the amount of carbon added ..
just nobody changed the pictures.. I called centric and she said “it’s just the disc! No hub” I guess she was just looking at the same pictures as I did !
trust me, I was sending a few e-mails about making connections to cast the discs… But it’s quite an undertaking.. and then, the next question is how many should be made…? And some liability question is coming up as well…
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm🤨
Larry they were ordered from Amazon in 2019.
One of my client was and may still be the US Supply Chain Manager for Centric. I'm going to call him tonight or tomorrow and see if there is a way to get an order of the correctly machined and dimensioned rotors. I'm a bit surprised that this is such a crazy thread, but since there are numerous threads just like this over the years maybe we can get something done here. I will report back shortly.
I don’t have a picture that shows the Porsche rotor by itself but I did find one with it mounted on my car. Of course I didn’t find the problem until I had both sides fully installed and tried to spin the hubs.
The problem was runout. The machining on the hats was very bad which caused excessive runout. I think he sources these from somewhere and then modifies the hat. I think he reduces the height, opens up the hub diameter, and redrills the stud holes, from what I could tell and remember from looking at them. I was also concerned about the limited number of bolts holding the hat to the rotor.
This is just my personal experience.
Steve
@tomsealbeach that would be fantastic…
this brake disc issue is around for a long time…. And 99% of the time it seems like it just fizzled out … in defeat.
@tsolo yes… that does sound funky, and it would concern me, too!!!
and there goes another Hmmmmmmmm
@LeMans850i posted:@tomsealbeach that would be fantastic…
this brake disc issue is around for a long time…. And 99% of the time it seems like it just fizzled out … in defeat.
Here's what I think the problem is, the Pantera numbers are already small, but at any one time there might be 10-20 owners that need replacement rotors. A company like Centric is owned by another parent company called APC Automotive Technologies, I recall StopTech was another company under that umbrella. APC filed bankruptcy in mid 2020 (maybe because of pandemic related issues but that was just the start of the pandemic). Taking on a specialty project for a production run of 50 or 100 rotors at a $50-100 retail price isn't a big project to these companies and thats why we are seeing these problems. Although, a production run might make sense if this part is an identical part match and cross fit to a Mustang rotor for 68-69 cars. Does anyone know which cars rotors are an identical match? Mustang, Cougar, Maverick etc? I'm just thinking forward on the arguments Mike Drew had to deal with when he made the deal with Centric to do a limited run.
After a long hot bath, here is what I come up with:
the 66 Mustang rotor/hub combination I just got, use it as the base…
1- machine the center to 81.9mm
2- machine the mounting flange to 9.2mm thickness which should make the disc 60.1mm high ( remove from wheel side)
3- machine disc to 282mm OD
4- machine bolt holes to 16.95
5- balance
6- water jet shim to offset caliper additional 1.5mm (my car had two shims on each side to bring the caliper to car center) because the disc is 1.5 mm per side further in I think we can live with that
I do not know if the flat spot on the head of the stud has something to bite on so it cannot turn. If there is nothing there could be a small recessed machined on the inside - one millimeter would do. if that’s the case… Have to go through the numbers again! Height increases to 61.1mm and caliper shim to 2.5mm
this way, we have full flange thickness, we have the proper diameter hole to center the disk on the hub, no washes needed under the studs…
If we can find a machine shop that could make the prototype and then maybe make a run of 50 .. or more??! It should become quite efficient doing same step on all and then switch for the next step on all and so on…
was my bath too hot 🥵???
Wow. What an amazing amount of machining and money just to adapt thin vented rotors.
some Willwood calipers can be widened with a spacer, which would allow the use of the thicker vented rotors used on the later mustangs.
cooling improves with venting, and also improves the thicker the rotor.
My point being, if you’re going to go to all this trouble, why not do it with a thicker and better rotor?
Or, if you choose, or have to stay with the thin rotor for your calipers, you can make this considerably simpler by just buying two of the separate rotors in the screen capture I posted earlier in this thread….. however they are also also thin, and thus not the ideal choice
Larry
I properly could go a couple mm thicker on the rotor but it would be a good fix just for me.. I was looking if there is a possibility to get a solution for everyone with original brakes (and wheels)! I’m not racing the car… just some spirited driving…
the work to the 66 discs reads like it’s a lot but it really isn’t..
once you did the prototype it would be pretty fast…
deck the flange (to the wheel) to the correct total height
machine center hole
OD of disc
5 hole (other thread says they already fit to press studs in)
balance (not sure about that… didn’t see any balance marks on new discs)
@lf-tp2511 posted:Wow. What an amazing amount of machining and money just to adapt thin vented rotors.
some Willwood calipers can be widened with a spacer, which would allow the use of the thicker vented rotors used on the later mustangs.
cooling improves with venting, and also improves the thicker the rotor.
My point being, if you’re going to go to all this trouble, why not do it with a thicker and better rotor?
Or, if you choose, or have to stay with the thin rotor for your calipers, you can make this considerably simpler by just buying two of the separate rotors in the screen capture I posted earlier in this thread….. however they are also also thin, and thus not the ideal choice
Larry
It is a lot to go through for sure! After seeing your response above I went back into a a few emails I had with the company that is the customer support to Centric and StopTech. At the time a manager was really helpful and gave me an email with this comment in it:
"Preemptively speaking we seem to be able to produce the slotted rotors. This would require an order of 6 sets of rotors (total of 12 altogether). I do not have a cost yet, I am trying to figure that out now."
When he said 12 rotors I said I'll just go with the non-slotted rotor because I didn't need 12. But he also mentioned that he can also make rotors that are not "static part numbers"! This must be how Mike Drew got his original batch made.
I have this guys phone number and some past correspondence with him. He was great so I will reach out to him on Monday on regular business house and see if we can get different dimensions made.
Well, that would be the ticket!!
Once there is a price on it let’s get an idea how many should be made…
send him an original rotor and make it 21mm thick and vented.. right!!
anyone who is interested PLEASE pipe up on this thread!
@tomsealbeach posted:Rene your Rotors came with the hub, bearings and the wheel studs! Thats surprising. I have the same part number and the rotor came bare!
I received the rotors alone, without the hub but it was in 2019.
@LeMans850i posted:Well, that would be the ticket!!
Once there is a price on it let’s get an idea how many should be made…
send him an original rotor and make it 21mm thick and vented.. right!!
anyone who is interested PLEASE pipe up on this thread!
That's a great idea to send an original rotor! Definitely will do that. Hmmm, maybe I'll do the rear at the same time.
Yes, rear as well!!! Same design or outside mounted? I am not sure if that is possible… I have to have a look, take a wheel off …
they are raising some issues… Wheel studs getting too short …
, sticking with the original design but vented is probably best and most doable!
There is a "core" existing that could be used for a rear rotor.
If you look at a GM '98 Blazer rear rotor, that would be the core.
Now I call it a core simply because it isn't a simple bolt on. It is the thicker rotor, i.e., .970" and it is 12.3"od. It uses a GM bolt pattern, not the Ford 4-1/2" center. It is vented. The center hole will clear the Pantera's center hub.
What is significant though, is that it has the necessary interior clearance to clear the o.d. of the Pantera rear hub, and the necessary set back to mount externally.
The bolt pattern can be redrilled to the Pantera pattern and the od can be turned down to what you need but the rotor thickness is probably going to be the main issue to deal with if you want to keep your calipers?
So any machining necessary would be done on the rotor and not on the Pantera.
Because it has the necessary depth to sit over the Pantera's flange it has the ability to be shimmed to center it in combination of shimming the location of the calipers.
I am still looking for that rotor in the thinner .847" thickness but it does not appear that there is one that exists but it is a start and for those of you that are sourcing hunters, it could be the beginning of a discussion with a brake rotor company.
I just haven't found a cross reference of rotor sizes yet that I can search an application for. Most cross references are for "original applications" and don't list the critical dimensions of the parts. That's the cross references that I need to find the thing, if it already exists, which is probably a 50/50 thing?
Being a common GM application helps with availability and pricing.
What I did on my brakes was already posted so I won't bore you all with repeating that but I would like to find a rotor that installs over the Pantera's rear flange, so that's why I keep looking. "You never know" and you won't find it if you stop looking? There is no doubt that something will need to be done with the rear studs but that is likely a minor change.
When converting to outside mounted brake rotors, a solution to the longer stud requirement, is to use 1/2”-20 studs. They are available in any length you want, inexpensive and much stronger than the OEM studs. Dennis Quella even has DeTomaso logo lug nuts with a 1/2”-20 thread.
Originally the discs are held on with the same stud, correct? I haven’t taken mine apart, but if we lose the disc in the back, the stud protrudes more in the front therefore, the original stud should work ….
I’m just throwing it out there… Wilwood makes so many hats and discs… I’m quite sure there is some configuration that works… I stumbled across this.. not drilled!!!!!… and it says order your size!!
Looks like they have drilled versions also so for what you have with the Wilwood calipers you could remake a bracket that would mount the caliper pretty much where you need it. Your calipers may also take a thicker rotor for better heat disipation.
The outside diameter of the rear axle flange on mine is 6.065".
I looked through available hats and saw most limited to a 5.750 od flange. You also need to get close on the depth of the hat as well.
With all the offsets with seperate hats and rotors, you need to get in the ball park in order to mount the calipers closely enough and preferably in order to shim them .
This is all doable but going in blindly is going to wind up with a lot of non-returnable extra parts.
Also, In this case it probably doesn't matter a lot but the GM rotors are $45 each but the commoness of a rotor for future replacement purposes would be preferred.
A friend gave me the name of a rotor company that will make anything for you. This guy restores classic race cars and this company is really the source of NASCAR components like brakes.
That is all well and good if you have a budget of $300 to $400 per rotor?
I believe that the front DT studs will work in the back when swapping the rotors to the outside but there are metric studs available in different configurations for race cars. The studs should not be the determining factors.
@LeMans850i posted:Originally the discs are held on with the same stud, correct? I haven’t taken mine apart, but if we lose the disc in the back, the stud protrudes more in the front therefore, the original stud should work ….
Not exactly. When moving the rotor to the outside, if you keep the stock studs or stock style studs, you need to put a spacer the width of the original rotor hat, between the head of the stud and the stub axle, so that the splines on the stud still sit in the axle in the same position as they did before. That results in a stud that’s effectively shorter by the width of the new rotor hat. Even when putting two piece Wilwood rotors in the OEM location, you need to shim the wheel studs by an amount equal to the difference between the thickness of a stock rotor hat and the Wilwood rotor hat. I wonder how many people install a Wilwood brake kit and wonder about the washers that are left over after the installation!
True both of you…. Early in the morning not enough coffee,😵💫
Finally getting back on to the brakes!
I’m still trying to get some new discs made, but at this point my lovely wife would kill me if the car sits another six month just like that in the garage! So I got a set of used discs..
the bigger hold up were the highly unusual polyurethane bushings… Did a little write up about them here on this forum… Look for “
” if interested..
Now that this problem is finally sorted in the rear I am back on to installing brake calipers…
one thing I forgot to do when I had everything apart was to chase the threats on the forward part of the uprights! Now I have to do it already installed in the car which is not very fun! Just test fitted the left side….
Also I got a new parking brake cable because on my original one the plastic shielding around was 80% gone and water got inside and it rusted itself in place…
(working on the front bushings)
Finally I could go back on the rear brakes..
the way the parking break calipers set up the brake cable is routing straight forward from the caliper, then follows the lower arm front under the headers crosses (I added 12” of heat sleeves per side) to frame, and then makes the turn towards the pulley,. This is a considerable shorter distance than the original route! So after test fitting it I marked the amount each side has to be shortened and the combined amount, the cable has to be shorter. I found a company in SoCal that can do that and I drive there on Tuesdays.
i hate if I have to do extra loops/turns… just not an option!
Are you looking at camber lock options?
(or is that another thread?)
Here’s how we (mostly Wade) did it… the discussion is on Page 4… scroll down.
https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...-1973-l-model?page=4
@rocky posted:Are you looking at camber lock options?
(or is that another thread?)
Here’s how we (mostly Wade) did it… the discussion is on Page 4… scroll down.
https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...-1973-l-model?page=4
I just read your thread… You pretty much did everything! Which is about where I’m going in the end… double thumbs up to you,👍👍
I think I’m gonna skip the camber lock… I talked to Jerry at PIM About it, and he essentially said if I’m not going to do heavy duty racing it’s pretty much a mute point and if I bump anything it just moves to ball joints versus bending some more structural parts… if it does create a problem, I will address it!
i’m gonna focus right now on the Wilwood break conversion and hopefully getting my parking brake cable shortened and get the wheels back on. They haven’t been on since they got redone! Can’t wait to see that!
and then still lots of electric, fuel system,(Holley is already done) external fuel filler and on and on..
well, YOU know how that works 🤔😁
The biggest problem with my (I bought it about 4 months ago and drove it 1 -one- mile) Pantera is that it was in a museum starting 2016 and then got sold 2021 and was sitting in a garage. There was work done to the car pre 2016 seems like including a repaint (car was taken apart) and I guess the poly bushings, half shafts and other little things but when they put it back together they assembled it dry… no grease anywhere!
door hinges, window mechanism, head light mechanism, locks, and then also (age related) speedo cable, pedal box, wiper assembly and so on!
Now I am sure that a lot has to do with being 50 years old and it just dried up and maintenance was “deferred “ LOL
I found proof that between 2016 and the time I bought it in 2022 the car got driven for 80 (eighty) miles !!
Someone took -keeping it -ORIGINAL- way to serious!🧐 I am sure that the gas I drained out of the fuel tank was 10 years old… -Maple syrup- and Coca-Cola brake fluid together with all leaking seals, and rusted brake discs… (omg to the rear wheel bearings)
I have my work cut out with it, but I’m making my own and no, it will be not original! Period correct YES but not another “original “ Yellow L Pantera! There are enough of them out there..
Another fun fact… when I get in the car the seat is expelling yellow foam powder…
things to do….
UPDATE FROM THE PRESIDENT OF CENTRIC ON THE ROTOR PART NUMBER 125.61053
My client who was Ops Director for Centric (but at a different company now) reached out to the current President of Centric on our dimension problems with their rotors and was told that "we no longer catelog those parts and neither does their other division (presumably StopTech). The part number/SKU has been killed off, otherwise the obsolete inventory problems never get resolved".
Centrics parent company went bankrupt a few years ago, Centric was spun off to a new parent company. We asked would they consider doing a limited run with specific dimensions again for Panteras and were told NO!!! Per the President "New ownership new strategy". The president actually went online trying to help out and refered me to PI Motorsports website sending a picture of the parts PIM has on their site.
Back to square one and this seemingly never ending rat hole!
Sorry, I tried.
Wow… that sucks big time!
I really really appreciate your help… I will stay on it and now that I have the original front and discs of my car, therefore have samples I will contact casting outfits!
The biggest question I have is how many should be ordered..???
I got the shortened parking brake cable back today
Big shout out to “control cables Inc.” in Santa Fe Springs, California.
They did an absolutely perfect job!! Precisely shortened the amount I asked them to - the outside shield and the inside cable.! It’s a perfect fit!!!! $30 perfect 👍
