Mind Train

I’ve got this one…. Hard to believe people would pay $35 for some Xerox sheets back in the day!

I’ll try and get it scanned.

I’d rather see pictures of June Tuey (their spokesmodel!)

Rocky

Let's Try This....

I'll do Rocky one better. I actually have a hard cover Mind Train binder. Got a bunch of odds and ends in it, including 8 x 10 pictures.

Hello "Rocky" thats great. Thanks for doing that for me. I am just learning about this "generation" of Pantera  "things". Really appreciate it.   And "Husker" anything you might have scanned or interesting from Mind Train would be greatly appreciated.

Regards, Dan

To Husker, is this the binder for sale at Motorspot?

Not familiar with Motorspot.

Probably known by some  on the forum...Motorspot asking 200 for a complete Mind Train binder. This is probably a good price  for someone wanting  the catalog as part of a collection. Right now, I am just looking for any information or scans of a similar catalog/binder.  Thanks, Dan

Dan,

That looks like mine. I'd have to compare pages. Seems like I have more. I'll scan mine sometime next weekend.

Thanks!  I  appreciate it.  Dan

Interesting, I always wondered where the Arm Rest consol in my car came from. Now I know.  Pretty sure the wire wheels I basically gave away were from Mind-Train too.

John 

There was someone recently looking for a Mind-Train nerf bar for the front of his car!  

If only I had one!

Actually saw one on a car at the Forza event in Monterrey about 5 years ago!

Rocky

Well I have the rear deck luggage rack. Don't know if it was exclusive to Mind Train?

Another aftermarket accessory company brochure.

Thanks, looks like the same photos and text as in the Mind Train catalog.

Someone knows all this accessory history ...somewhere

Catalogs

Hi, thanks for these great scans!!

Best picture of June to date!

Really wish someone would repop those louvers!

I would say that I have built my own and used two spines instead of one.

I built it so that it could be disassembled or assembled piece by piece. This also permits the replacement of individual parts if needed in the future.

Although I have not heard stories of failure I was concerned with the strength of the initial design and approached the structure differently. So mine is built somewhat like an airplane wing would be assembled, i.e., once assembled it works as an integral unit.

I like the original design in that it is hinged and can be raised for cleaning of the decklid. I have a '73 which came with the "sugar scoop" deck spoiler. If you retain that, it pretty much eliminates the possibility of hinging the assembly.

So mine has the issue of needing a special cleaning method.

I actually spoke to a couple knowledgeable Pantera people and I mentioned, at the time, that mine was easily a $3,500 item. Both thought that it was not overpriced at that.

I would say that even though a talented mechanic could assemble mine, that the final cost would be closer to $5,000 and he would need the car for more then just a few days.

That and considering the liability possible that this thing could fly off or cause aerodynamic changes to the car at high speed (lift) it is really a bad idea to do one for someone else. Second Amendment people can be very prominent in your face if things go a little wrong? Plus no one is going to guaranty satisfaction.

There were a few of the Mind Train units sold so the best course of action at this point is to keep eyes and ears open for one. Considering that Hall offered just about every part in the Mind Train catalog except the louvres, I wonder exactly why?

I suspect though that if you approached someone like the Ring Brothers, if you flashed enough cash at them, it could be done?

I like the look but then again I like the Lamborghini Miura also but I think that you are kind of on your own with this as a project, unfortunately.

One of the fabrication challenges would be that every one of the slats is a different size.

Maybe you could do the profile on the ends, and then just lengthen and thicken the middle of each slat appropriately?

Nowadays with a water jet, or a laser cutter, if you could build one out of cardboard you would have a good template.

Once you know the basic sizes, cutting the slats, profiling the ends and designing the stringers might not be as big of a project.

With a CAD Program, you could copy the profile and cut/paste it onto each one of the individual slats. The two stringers would be identical.

Leave a tab at the bottom of each of the stringers that you could bend over and install a grommet so you don’t tear up your paint on the back deck lid.

You could use quick release pins through the bottom of the grommets into the deck lid to retain it (assuming a hinged design).

You could probably use black powder coated stainless steel hinges to attach the stringers to the slats.  Removing the hinge pins, and use some sort of thin, removable sliding pin would facilitate assembly/disassembly.

I do agree a design hinged at the top would be a lot easier to keep clean.

I think Wade (Mk4-4280) had built some as one of his businesses (LoFlyte) back in the day, but I never saw one in the flesh.

Let us know if you get all motivated and do such a project.

Or as Doug suggests, let us know if you found a brand new uninstalled Mind-Train version that somebody has had in their grandfathers garage for 35 years…  it has happened!

Rocky

OBTW: There’s a lot of great design information in that Mind-Train catalog if you’re gonna consider this project. No sense in reinventing the wheel.

I doubt if it’s patented or copyrighted, and if it’s published (like in the catalog) they can no longer claim it’s a “trade secret”!

Is there anyone around who actually had the Mind Train lovers installed on their vehicle and can relate the experience? I'm interested in the security of their attachment, vibration at speed, hinged cleanability, etc.

louvers

I kept the set that were on my car when bought it.  I don't believe they are Mind Train as they are held down with nuts in each corner.  Here are a few pics.

I probably won't put these back on the car and would sell them if someone really wants them.  I'm located in AZ.

John

#3590

John -

These might be your Louvers…. Here’s a little info, not much…

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...ear-deck-lid-louvers

Chuck

Thanks Chuck!  I believe that is what I have.

John

Dan A…

PM sent…

Doug, "Second Amendment people can be very prominent in your face if things go a little wrong? "  Seriously?????? Sheesh

Everything is apart for paint over the winter. No good pics to show at the moment. Louvres are sitting in grey primer at the moment.

Looks like the Mind train with two splines but uses the sugar scoop.  Same number of slats.

Clear lexan "roof" over the velocity stacks like the clear lexan over the "all you can eat salad bar covers", attaches to the splines, heat curved down to keep the rain and car wash water out.

I used 8-32 black stainless button head screws threaded directly into the splines. No nuts. So it isn't as sophisticated looking as the Miura's. If you don't look close, they look like pop rivets on a fighter plane.

Has really a competition look to it. Ferrari people would find it an affront to the esthetics of the Universe as a result will need to check in with their shrinks for therapy. Lucky for them I didn't go with clear Lexan slats like Lamborghini has done recently. Then they would get a brain hemorrhage for sure?

Splines are built like stair stringers out of aluminum extrusions. Very much the same principle.

Slats are .080" aluminum.

The Mind Trains might fit the deck lid well enough as a universal kit but I think that you may find they may need to be built by hand on each car? I'm not sure about that, i.e., how much those dimensions vary from deck lid to deck lid?

The decklid curves in several directions all at the same time. They are complex curves and isn't really flat from left to right either, except for the very early cars.

@marlinjack posted:

...Sounds Right! I like your ideal of 2 central spines as there is no center interference to the Review Mirror I'll borrow that Idea if OK.

I'm drawing up 7-8 Slats, Wide and Overlapping .090" Thick.

Thanks for the Ideas.

I'm Good with Tapers, Angles and French Curves.

Marlin

I actually enjoy getting involved in complex projects. In the case of these louvres I have remade them several times.

Some MIGHT say, well build a template first. I suppose that the first run through with aluminum WAS the template.  As it turns out, the template needs to be made from the materials you want the finished product to be.

Building it from plywood or cardboard does not show the details needed to fasten the aluminum together.

I actually wanted them to be hinged like on the Boss Mustangs but the roof spoiler complicated that into a no can do thing.

They do present issues as to how to clean beneath them.

.060, .080, .090", doesn't matter too much but you need to fold the ends down so the temper of the aluminum is important and soft aluminum is the way to go. Otherwise you will break it when you bend it.

One of the complications is that likely you will put the slat in a vise to bend it. That will give you a straight bend but the reality is that is really should have a slight curve to it.

As far as the support splines, those I made from 3/4" x 3/4" x 1/8" aluminum extrusions.

The complication there is that is not really a straight line, it has crown to it. So one of the variations anyone is going to notice from one manufacturer to another is if the slats lie flat or if they have a rise to them in the center AND how that changes from the center to the top and the bottom slats.

When carpenters are setting the long joist of the floor or the roof, they sight down the joist and put the curve up. They call that crowning the beam.

Ironically when you construct the splines, you are creating the crown in them to compliment the curve in the decklid.

My slats are 4-1/2" wide. After initially cutting them out of a 48 x 96" sheet of aluminum, second run through, I just bought the slats precut.

The only issue with that is/was, the shear used by the supplier tends to roll the edge slightly. The supplier didn't match the roll on all of them and some had a roll up and a roll down on the same slat.

That also nexes the possibility of using black anodized materials since you would have unfinished edges.

This gets as complicated as you want it to be.

This is where I was talking about what it really costs to build a nice set. It's up there.

I doubt that Mind Train would cost only a few hundred dollars now.

This will keep you busy for quite some time Marlin but you don't want to be in the shop at 110° building these. You are on your own as to determine how much clearance to build into the ends for the aluminum expansion and contraction. Tight is not going to be good.

I would add in closing, it is actually quite a bit simpler to do a high precision competition valve job by comparison but then you would actually have to have done both to comprehend that? Best of luck in your endeavor...and no I won't build any for anyone else, so don't ask.

There are too many "2nd Amendment" enthusiasts that don't mind making their views very explicit and don't necessarily exude confidence in others that they have the necessary patience to not press for quick results.  Just sayin'.

Does anybody know who is the manufacturer of those Louvers ??

This are the one I got from John.. thank you @jwelch68

i gave them a good “once over” to make sure I don’t have any rattling going on! (2 days of tedious work but well worth it)

the look out of the rear window is not as restricted as you may think! The spine in the center does not impair the view in the rear view mirror or the view to your right rear side of the car…. I think having 2 spines will cut into the quarter view a lot… which is limited already the way it is without the Louvers ..

This pic of my Louvers is a mindbender for me… the right side looks like the slats are curved but they are NOT… The left side of the picture shows the way it really is.. the whole slat has just a light curvature…

On the subject of one spine v. two, in my case I am already running an 8 stack induction system. Two splines is insignificantly different rear vision wise. The induction is but not not a project killer.

Two spines clears the 5" tall velocity stacks with less trauma as they fit comfortably in between the spines.

My thought was that structurally two spines would be better then two. I personally have no way of measuring the load on the entire assembly at speed. It is better to be error on the side of too strong rather then too week.  Rattling around would also be a concern. More places to secure the slats reduces the vibration by at least half.

The only thing that we "know" from wind tunnel testing results released to the public is that area over the deck is a dead air area.

Instinctively feeling I can anticipate designers thought processes, I can't dismiss the thought that at some point, even if it was just for an instant, louves must have been considered on the Pantera. After all, the Miura was already in existence and a powerful design statement that can't be ignored.

That was just a design "guess". As it turned out, the two spines worked well to support the clear Lexan cover over the stacks. That cover was a natural evolution in my case. To others that just want the look of the louvres, an irrelevant one to them.

As that evolved it worked out that the top most slat got left out from the louvre assembly. It was concealed by the roof spoiler, and the spoiler directs air down into the stacks, so my thinking on this is more then just cosmetic.

Removing that top slat unblocks the air flow from the roof spoiler to the induction stacks.

If this discussion is getting all too involved for some, then so be it but perhaps you should consider as many factors before getting involved in a project like this? The Pantera seems to be by nature a design that just others see potentials in that were never acted upon initially.

Roland,

Those louvers were made by a company called Chastain SHADOW.

Ron

I don't know for sure since I purchased the car from an estate after the owner passed away.  Someone from the forum sent me the link which matches Ron's info above.

"I am looking for the rear deck lid louvers that were sold by Panteramarica in the late 70's through their accessory catalogue. These louvers were manufactured by Chastain Louvers, Inc under the Trade marked name Chastain Onepiece. This company is now defunct. These louvers were attached by 4 mounting screws and had a urethane foam that protected the paint from the aluminum louvers."

John

Here is the link Wanted Rear Deck LId Louvers | The De Tomaso Forums

Panteradoug,

I had the privilege of knowing Alejandro. His wife Isabelle was from a town next to mine. I spoke to him on several occasions from 1971-74 and louvers were definitely considered in the original Tjaarda design. I think budgetary cosiderations axed them as with other elements he wanted, such as better seats, leather interior and a decent steering wheel.

...I've been drawing up a Design of these (see pic) to fit the Pantera Trapezoid.

I have a technique to cut them Exact Absolute.

8 Slats @ 5.95" Inches Wide. With 4" of Deck exposed at the rear. Straight as Shown, Inside the Deck 'Sides'. Below the Top of the Deck Line. Each slat aimed and adjusted by Lazer. .090" Aluminum is on the way!

We'll see What Marlin can Accomplish.

P.S. Tomorrow the 22nd, I Turn 73. Healthy as a Thoroughbred Racehorse!

MJ

Happy Birthday!