Yeah I thought the rivets would complete the GR4 look but it looks a little "racecarish" IMHO. I like it but I don't. I look at top end GR4's like DOES 200 and Rapids cars and they look sweet without the rivets.
Hey, if I want them after all I have to do is bring out the cordless and the rivet gun!
Will
So............How is it coming along????
Ron
Ron
Thanks for the kind words Will.It's been a pleasure working on your car I can't wait to see it painted and on the ground.Will and I experimented with that 3m panel adhesive and I have to say that stuff is almost as good as welding.Will bonded some scrap pieces together and I could not break the joint even with a hammer.Maybe one day I will get mine done and we could finally go cruising.
The panel adhesive would hold the steel flare to the fender without welding? 
Oh no. I can't believe I'm considering doing this now? Thanks a lot guys.
Oh no. I can't believe I'm considering doing this now? Thanks a lot guys.
Way to go Sam. No that you practiced on Wills go do your own. Then he can do the work and you can get the coffee 
Nice work guys. It's going to look great with the new wheels. So Will, what colour is it gonna be?
Nice work guys. It's going to look great with the new wheels. So Will, what colour is it gonna be?
quote:The panel adhesive would hold the steel flare to the fender without welding?
Still need to weld the marker light holes which leads to a full repaint.
The fibreglass flares are incredibly strong once bonded. They are quite thick and the compounding curve adds to the strength. They are so big and the contact area is so large that I beleive it adds strength to the area that was cut. I can't flex the flares at all. And anyone who knows me, knows that I am a huge massive powerful man.
BAWAHAHAHA
Will ( 4'13")
Colour?Not black, but it will be dark. Not sure yet.
..... Will great work, I should have done fiberglass to my car...I would have been done a year earlier ? LOL
A word of caution ..keep a wet sponge handy when welding the marker lights ...welding in a circle distorts the panel .. a wet sponge shrinks it back ...
Doug the adhesives and epoxys today are excellent. I bonded hinges to my carbon fiber decklid and its stronger then the material around it.
Ron
Ron
A word of caution ..keep a wet sponge handy when welding the marker lights ...welding in a circle distorts the panel .. a wet sponge shrinks it back ...
Doug the adhesives and epoxys today are excellent. I bonded hinges to my carbon fiber decklid and its stronger then the material around it.
Ron
Ron
king Good Will! Keep the photos coming.
Thanks for the compliments guys. More work than I thought but it'll be worth it. Should be in for paint in January and the paint guy "promises" 3 weeks.
Can't wait....
Will
Can't wait....
Will
I'm not clear on the cutting of the stock fenders. This has to be done to clear the tires?
The wide tires almost look like they wood clear the stock fenders.
The wide tires almost look like they wood clear the stock fenders.
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
I'm not clear on the cutting of the stock fenders. This has to be done to clear the tires?
The wide tires almost look like they wood clear the stock fenders.
You have to cut those puppys before putting on the flares (that's unless you want to jack the rear way up like an old Nova). These couple links below may help for a visual. I could take any photos that may help, as this can be tricky stuff!
http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=1899
http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=1586
Are the flares on Does200 'glass?
I've never seen a car with the wide wheels and tires on, without the flares on, and with a reference point to the original openings.
While I convinced of the aesthetics of the change, I'm not convinced that it is the way to go as far as the steering and handling go.
As per previous discussions, I'm not sure what the solution to the front caster should be. Maybe just a power steering system to dampen the
steering chatter?
I've never seen a car with the wide wheels and tires on, without the flares on, and with a reference point to the original openings.
While I convinced of the aesthetics of the change, I'm not convinced that it is the way to go as far as the steering and handling go.
As per previous discussions, I'm not sure what the solution to the front caster should be. Maybe just a power steering system to dampen the
steering chatter?
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Are the flares on Does200 'glass?
I've never seen a car with the wide wheels and tires on, without the flares on, and with a reference point to the original openings.
While I convinced of the aesthetics of the change, I'm not convinced that it is the way to go as far as the steering and handling go.
As per previous discussions, I'm not sure what the solution to the front caster should be. Maybe just a power steering system to dampen the
steering chatter?
Yes, they are metal flares custom made by prior owner from the real factory fiberglass flares. Steering and handling are fine with mine, although it has some Group 5 setup from Wilkinson years ago. Not sure if that would make a difference or not.
Will, you are well underway and waaay too late to turn back, but I heard that "conventional wisdom", whatever that is, advises fitting the new wheels to the car before fixing the flares. I've heard of a few cases where the flares ended up being either higher or lower than the owner thought they would be once the car was lowered onto its own suspension. Therefore the safest route is to install the wheels, lower the car, and fit the flares where they need to be based on the car at rest.
I can't give you any specific examples of cars that turned out weird, but I think I remember seeing some in PI many moons ago where the owner lamented the fact that the flares were perfectly located for the stock, higher-profile tires of the narrow body look, but if he had it to do over again he wished he would have installed the flares a little lower (or higher) to look "right" on the new rims.
I don't know if it will affect your car or not? I've also never done this myself (I admire your courage and think you'll have a fantastic looking car!) but pass on warnings that I've heard over the years..
I can't give you any specific examples of cars that turned out weird, but I think I remember seeing some in PI many moons ago where the owner lamented the fact that the flares were perfectly located for the stock, higher-profile tires of the narrow body look, but if he had it to do over again he wished he would have installed the flares a little lower (or higher) to look "right" on the new rims.
I don't know if it will affect your car or not? I've also never done this myself (I admire your courage and think you'll have a fantastic looking car!) but pass on warnings that I've heard over the years..
Hi Charlie. I've forgotten if your car has fiberglass or steel flares. I think it is white?
Jan I'll bet that someone increase the caster on the car though. If you don't the thing will dart all over the place because of the wider front wheels.
I'll take a wild guess and say that you have 4.5 to 5 degrees.
Jan I'll bet that someone increase the caster on the car though. If you don't the thing will dart all over the place because of the wider front wheels.
I'll take a wild guess and say that you have 4.5 to 5 degrees.
Here is the car with the wheel only with the factory wheel lip. I have not cut my fenders yet so they still have the original arch. I only ground out the filler so the flare would mock up correctly. I will cut them after final fitting
You can see that a set of wheels for a wide body would stick out considerably on a narrow body. The fenders must be cut or there will be tire rubbing.
You can see that a set of wheels for a wide body would stick out considerably on a narrow body. The fenders must be cut or there will be tire rubbing.
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Do you have a side view picture of that?
I'm thinking that the flare lip if filled to be flush, is likely to crack down the road at some point?
Maybe that's why there factory avoided that on the later cars? The solution to that was to go with the full steel fendered cars.
Is it completely necessary to fill in the side marker light holes? In one picture that I saw it looked like the rear possibly would just fit?
Why can't the steel fender, once properly cut, be flanged so that the lip on the fiberglass flare be flush with the surface of the fender. That way not only could you use bonding adhesive but also countersink rivets these as well?
The ends of the rocker panels need to be trimmed too don't they?
I'm thinking that the flare lip if filled to be flush, is likely to crack down the road at some point?
Maybe that's why there factory avoided that on the later cars? The solution to that was to go with the full steel fendered cars.
Is it completely necessary to fill in the side marker light holes? In one picture that I saw it looked like the rear possibly would just fit?
Why can't the steel fender, once properly cut, be flanged so that the lip on the fiberglass flare be flush with the surface of the fender. That way not only could you use bonding adhesive but also countersink rivets these as well?
The ends of the rocker panels need to be trimmed too don't they?
quote:Will, you are well underway and waaay too late to turn back, but I heard that "conventional wisdom", whatever that is, advises fitting the new wheels to the car before fixing the flares. I've heard of a few cases where the flares ended up being either higher or lower than the owner thought they would be once the car was lowered onto its own suspension. Therefore the safest route is to install the wheels, lower the car, and fit the flares where they need to be based on the car at rest.
I can't give you any specific examples of cars that turned out weird, but I think I remember seeing some in PI many moons ago where the owner lamented the fact that the flares were perfectly located for the stock, higher-profile tires of the narrow body look, but if he had it to do over again he wished he would have installed the flares a little lower (or higher) to look "right" on the new rims.
I don't know if it will affect your car or not? I've also never done this myself (I admire your courage and think you'll have a fantastic looking car!) but pass on warnings that I've heard over the years..
I've heard that countless times now. I've also corresponded with no less than 3 people who ordered wheels before the flares and had them sent to a shop afterwards to have the backspacing changed ($$$$). I have no idea why anyone would order wheels first. As long as you have a circle mounted(same diameter as your future wheel/tire combo),proper flare mounting can be accomplished.
I made a 3" spacer and stud extentions so I could use my existing wheels to fit flares (fore, aft and upper placement)at correct ride height. The wheels I have now are within 1/2' in total diameter compared to the new ones. I used the existing wheels to center the flares. Once bonded, I raised the suspension to ride height and took measurements and ordered wheels with proper backspacing.
I can't count how many widebody cars have spacers and longer studs.Or the wheels are not positioned properly to the flare lip. I'll be damned if I'm going to send rims back for modifications ($$$), install new studs ($$$) and spacers ($$$) after spending $5000 on rims. Isn't that the whole idea of ordering "custom" rims? You order exactly what you need.
Doesn't make any sense to me at all to order wheels first, guessing at what they're suppose to be, then pay a body man to "adust" 4 flares at $70/hr when all I have to do is order wheels with proper backspacing afterwards.
But then again, everyone is telling me I'm doing it backwards...
We'll see.....
Will
quote:Maybe that's why there factory avoided that on the later cars? The solution to that was to go with the full steel fendered cars.
My flares covered the maker light holes just about in the middle.
Also, the original fender lips MUST be cut out or else the new wheels (outboard by 2-3" from stock) WILL hit the original fender lip and cause body damage)
Will
Will
This is the reason I said that about the side marker lights. This light seems to barely clear...but it does.
Also if the steel on the existing fender was flanged. The finished surface height of both the fender and the flange of the flare would be flush.
Flanging it isn't that big of an operation. You can do it with the vise-grip flanger that Eastwood sells or there is a neumatic operated one that rolls it.
As far as what comes first, the chicken or the egg, I watching and learning.
http://search.eastwood.com/sea...10&y=9&p=Q&ts=custom
Also if the steel on the existing fender was flanged. The finished surface height of both the fender and the flange of the flare would be flush.
Flanging it isn't that big of an operation. You can do it with the vise-grip flanger that Eastwood sells or there is a neumatic operated one that rolls it.
As far as what comes first, the chicken or the egg, I watching and learning.
http://search.eastwood.com/sea...10&y=9&p=Q&ts=custom
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Must be a difference between GR4 flares and the white GT5 flares. Mine covered almost 1/2 the light
Will
Will
The group 4 flare is bigger and the lip is also wider.As far as installing the flare flush with the original panel it is all a matter of taste.Filling the marker light hole is really no big deal but will be necessary if you decide to go group 4.If you go with steel flares you do not need the lip because they will be welded so you do not need a bonding surface.quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
This is the reason I said that about the side marker lights. This light seems to barely clear...but it does.
Also if the steel on the existing fender was flanged. The finished surface height of both the fender and the flange of the flare would be flush.
Flanging it isn't that big of an operation. You can do it with the vise-grip flanger that Eastwood sells or there is a neumatic operated one that rolls it.
As far as what comes first, the chicken or the egg, I watching and learning.
http://search.eastwood.com/sea...10&y=9&p=Q&ts=custom
Hopefully I installed the picture correctly describing what the flare will look like without the lip
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quote:Originally posted by 4NHOTROD:
I've heard that countless times now. I've also corresponded with no less than 3 people who ordered wheels before the flares and had them sent to a shop afterwards to have the backspacing changed ($$$$). I have no idea why anyone would order wheels first. As long as you have a circle mounted(same diameter as your future wheel/tire combo),proper flare mounting can be accomplished.
I made a 3" spacer and stud extentions so I could use my existing wheels to fit flares (fore, aft and upper placement)at correct ride height. The wheels I have now are within 1/2' in total diameter compared to the new ones. I used the existing wheels to center the flares. Once bonded, I raised the suspension to ride height and took measurements and ordered wheels with proper backspacing.
I can't count how many widebody cars have spacers and longer studs.Or the wheels are not positioned properly to the flare lip. I'll be damned if I'm going to send rims back for modifications ($$$), install new studs ($$$) and spacers ($$$) after spending $5000 on rims. Isn't that the whole idea of ordering "custom" rims? You order exactly what you need.
Doesn't make any sense to me at all to order wheels first, guessing at what they're suppose to be, then pay a body man to "adust" 4 flares at $70/hr when all I have to do is order wheels with proper backspacing afterwards.
But then again, everyone is telling me I'm doing it backwards...
We'll see.....
Will
Will, I think you are doing a great job.
My wheels have no spacers or long studs or anything. When I bought them from wilkinson I told him I was doing a GT5 conversion and he said he knew what I needed.
I was given options on the dish of the spokes and I told him what I wanted for that and and that was it, they fit perfect.
I think you have skipped one downfall that some people run into in that your car already had a alighnment on it. A local guy here had a GR4 done and when he rebuilt his suspension and had it aligned one of the front wheels hits the flare.
You are also smart to do it at ride height, another mistake that gets made is people not doing that.
I don't think it matters whether you order wheels first or not where you have a mock up wheel/spacer to use.
Flare mods at $70/hr? I thought Sam was working for pizza and beer!
From what I have been reading it looks like the GT5 conversion is a little easier than the GR4 as far as flares.
You guys keep up the great work I'm sure the car will be fantastic!
I noticed that the factory Group 4 cars had small round side marker lights and I noticed that no one with "tribute" cars seems to have used them?
Also the gas tank is actually now going to be inside of the G4 flare and the original street inner splash shields don't really work anymore.
Are you guys who have finished the flairs using any of this?
I'm thinking that the G4 fiberglass flairs with the fenders flanged and not GT5 running boards, is the way to go.
I actually can envision the fiberglass flares taking more abuse then the steel.
From what I see in these pictures the rear flares in the back need the most work to make fit?
Now the rear wheels are going to 13" wide and 335s? Isn't there a shortage of those now?
Also the gas tank is actually now going to be inside of the G4 flare and the original street inner splash shields don't really work anymore.
Are you guys who have finished the flairs using any of this?
I'm thinking that the G4 fiberglass flairs with the fenders flanged and not GT5 running boards, is the way to go.
I actually can envision the fiberglass flares taking more abuse then the steel.
From what I see in these pictures the rear flares in the back need the most work to make fit?
Now the rear wheels are going to 13" wide and 335s? Isn't there a shortage of those now?
Will keep up the good work ... good choice in fiberglass ... I purchased 2 sets of steel flairs that fit like shi# ... a set of wheels for $$$ thats were the wrong offset and had to add 1" spacers and longer studs ... and still not done. They covered the marker lights so I bought AUDI markers. I'm not sure why the vendors cant make a set of steel flairs that actually fit and the proper offset on the rear wheels to fit a GR4 flair ? This is not rocket science. BUt in the long run I learned that nothing I bought fit properly .. I refabricated 1600 x 2 sets of flairs and 5500 in wheels the wrong offset plus 1" spacers.
Think fiberglass and panel adhesive. LOL
Think fiberglass and panel adhesive. LOL
Well, I don't weld that well...but I can use a hot glue gun.
Plus with all the heat put to these panels how is anyone ever going to get them straight without about 500 pounds of body filler?
Hum. Wrong offset? If the flares are steel and they are 1" too wide, can't you just cut them 1" where you are going to weld them anyway?
There is no way I'm going to drive a car with 1" spacers. Already wound up in the weeds years ago with that one. Cop thought I got killed.
Got a picture of the Audi side lights and don't the vendors sell the G4 side lights?
Plus with all the heat put to these panels how is anyone ever going to get them straight without about 500 pounds of body filler?
Hum. Wrong offset? If the flares are steel and they are 1" too wide, can't you just cut them 1" where you are going to weld them anyway?
There is no way I'm going to drive a car with 1" spacers. Already wound up in the weeds years ago with that one. Cop thought I got killed.
Got a picture of the Audi side lights and don't the vendors sell the G4 side lights?
I straightened the panels with a propane torch and a sponge on low heat. Then a body hammer and dolly.
The rears were 7" past the stock panel ..I cut them back 1" and then added 1" spacer .. the spacers were made with so they center on the axle and center inside the wheel with 1/2 bolts threaded thru the axle. It will be fine .. my other choice was to TIG the spacers to the wheel ?
No pics of the lights ..an Audi 2001 side light.
Ron
The rears were 7" past the stock panel ..I cut them back 1" and then added 1" spacer .. the spacers were made with so they center on the axle and center inside the wheel with 1/2 bolts threaded thru the axle. It will be fine .. my other choice was to TIG the spacers to the wheel ?
No pics of the lights ..an Audi 2001 side light.
Ron
Stretching and shrinking steel panels with heat? You're a better man then I Gunga Din.
7"? I would tend to think with a flare that large that someones thinking was 1)this is the only way I can make the steel flare 2)this is a custom set up and whoever does the installation has to trim them to wherever they want to?
Not that I am an expert on anything at all. Just ask my wife. She'll tell you I don't know anything?
7"? I would tend to think with a flare that large that someones thinking was 1)this is the only way I can make the steel flare 2)this is a custom set up and whoever does the installation has to trim them to wherever they want to?
Not that I am an expert on anything at all. Just ask my wife. She'll tell you I don't know anything?
quote:I noticed that the factory Group 4 cars had small round side marker lights and I noticed that no one with "tribute" cars seems to have used them?
I found these LED's. Super bright and slim design. Not quite sure if I'm going to install them. I Like the look at night and the safety factor, but don't want to take away from the look of the car.
Will
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quote:Now the rear wheels are going to 13" wide and 335s? Isn't there a shortage of those now?
There are no shortages of 335's in 17 or 18" diameter. Hard to find wide 15" tires.
Will
Here are some shots of those small lights on a 5S in the link below, although I like it with none at least until I get a ticket.
http://www.poca.com/index.php/...ery/?g2_itemId=10220
http://www.poca.com/index.php/...ery/?g2_itemId=10220