They're referring to Project Binky. A British company called Bad Obsession Motorsport is installing a Toyota Celica GT-4 drive train into an Austin Mini. 6 years in the making. All custom fabrication. Very talented craftsmen. Worth watching.
Ok, so 898 is approaching reassembly time.
Engine Bay / Rear Suspension is getting there...
Engine is still a few weeks out, new pistons, valves, valve springs, cam, roller everything, double roller timing chain...
So now I'm looking at what I will need to do to remate the ZF to my shiny fresh engine...
So, now I'm begging for part #'s and/or advice
I'm hoping to replace pressure plate, throwout bearing, Pilot Bearing and of course clutch disc.
The pressure plate in the car was a "Zoom 020005" Long Style. I can't find that model anywhere... rebuild or replace?
Is the Throwout Bearing a standard Mustang item?
Steve L. had mentioned roller/needle bearings in the pilot bearing, does anyone know the sizes or (fingers crossed) a part #?
Clutch Disc was a "CF470" which I'm pretty sure is a discontinued Center Force model, I've read we both CAN & can NOT use a Chevy clutch... any thoughts?
Thanks in advance to all!
MH
I assume you still have the steel pilot bearing/bushing extension piece? The Mangusta and very early Panteras used a bellhousing, diff case and Goose gearbox that had different dimensions, so the pilot was extended out from the crankshaft. I built a couple of custom ones with needle bearing ejectors so the bearings could be easily backed out, but I don't remember the measurements after all this time.
Chevy clutch here. Details: I have none! Sorry.
Michael,
Some pictures in here for you:
https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...a-clutch-help-please
Pilot bearing: INA #HK1512
I used a double lipped rubber seal that I found instead of a leather version which should be original...... 15x21x5 MOS/D Double Lip Oil Seal. Sourced via Rocket Seals in Denver. YMMV!
As for more info: Try my post: OOPS I'm Doing It Again..... for my rebuild process of last engine and ZF adventure....plus cracks...... I thought I posted all of the clutch info there also.
Pressure plate is stock 1968 Ford Mustang 302 clutch. I ran a 10.5" "synthetic" material (Kevlar like..) on both sides of the disc. Disc is supposed to be some sort of Mopar piece that my clutch guy found before he passed away......bummer! Besides losing a friend of the marque, lost all of the info too! See top post for pic's of it!
Throw out bearing is stock Mustang Bower/BCA 1625 I believe. (same as Pantera.)
Note that the clutch disc and pressure plate all say 10" but you can run a 10,5" disc with this pressure plate, no problem.
Pressure plate was C7ZZ-? number......if I must I could be persuaded to dig thru my receipts for the actual number. Goose parts book lists a undeciperable partial Ford number.... might be C7TA.....
I "may" have installed a HiPo 289/Boss 302 pressure plate.... C7ZZ-7550-A... My apologies for dead brain cells!!!!!
My Master Ford Parts Catalog lists the following pressure plate for a 1968 302 with 10" clutch: C6OZ-7550-G Likely this is what came in the cars.
I know that my original flywheel had the proper C7TA(?) stamping on the backside which accepted the 10.5" components just fine, no redrilling required!
I found this from email dated 2010, but could be earlier:
My friend found me a clutch that fits the ‘goose with no modifications. Its McLeod part number 260140. I’m also using it with Hays pressure plate part number Hay-52-105 which was given to me by Roland Jaeckal. Haven’t road tested it yet but it specs out the same and the hub shaft clears the crank adapter with no machining. I’ll attach it tomorrow and hopefully get the engine installed sometime this weekSorry for the goofy format!!! Tried to fix it but failed.....short of typing it all over again.....
We REALLY NEED TO GET STICKIES for this website activated.....so that we can start a data reference area for this post and the other 401 just like it!!! Post it once......more......! Read many.......! George???
Cheers!
Steve 
@bosswrench Yes, I have the extension piece, it seems fine, it's the brass bit inside it that I was thinking I should replace.
@mangusta I went through your threads earlier, lots of good info in there... one quick question, I still have the original pilot bearing adapter, but you posted a pic of your non-original adapter
is it screwed into the crankshaft? it looks like there are screw holes in the back of yours. I haven't looked that deeply into mine just yet...
I'm pretty sure I still have the original flywheel, but the pressure plate is aftermarket, just trying to decide if I should rebuild or replace it. Disc itself definitely needs replacement... it's quite worn.
I'm deep into weatherstripping and brake lines as such as well... today was a field trip to the machine shop, so I had to do more thinking that usual...
Until next time!
Thanks all
MH
Attachments
Images (1)
Those screw holes are so you can thread two screws in from the back to force out a steel needle pilot bearing. Otherwise, you basically have to grind it out as the bearing is too small for a puller. To remove a bushing, you just screw a tap into the bronze until it bottoms. Further turning jacks the soft bushing out, but that won;t work with a small hardened needle bearing.
There's an extra hardened washer between the base of the adapter hole to take the force of the two removal screws without bending the bearings grease shield. This is so a bearing can be reused after being removed for inspection.Finally, the spud that presses into the crank is also threaded so the adapter can be removed from the crank. I spent quite a bit of time trying to design the thing to be service-able if you used a bearing instead of a bushing.
Jack DeRyke
There's an extra hardened washer between the base of the adapter hole to take the force of the two removal screws without bending the bearings grease shield. This is so a bearing can be reused after being removed for inspection.Finally, the spud that presses into the crank is also threaded so the adapter can be removed from the crank. I spent quite a bit of time trying to design the thing to be service-able if you used a bearing instead of a bushing.
Jack DeRyke
@bosswrench posted:Those screw holes are so you can thread two screws in from the back to force out a steel needle pilot bearing. Otherwise, you basically have to grind it out as the bearing is too small for a puller. To remove a bushing, you just screw a tap into the bronze until it bottoms. Further turning jacks the soft bushing out, but that won;t work with a small hardened needle bearing.
There's an extra hardened washer between the base of the adapter hole to take the force of the two removal screws without bending the bearings grease shield. This is so a bearing can be reused after being removed for inspection.Finally, the spud that presses into the crank is also threaded so the adapter can be removed from the crank. I spent quite a bit of time trying to design the thing to be service-able if you used a bearing instead of a bushing.
Jack DeRyke
@bosswrench are the factory adapters similarly attached or are they just pressed into place ?
MH
Yeah, for the clutch cover, there really aren't alternatives--just the early Ford 302 version. I see that Centerforce requires a different flywheel (I can't remember, maybe ~1985 Ford changed the clutch cover (and yes, new holes in the flywheel to go with it).
The 10-spline of the ZF is not a Ford, so I matched the Chevy disc plate. I see that Centerforce lists one 10.4" disc for The -1 ZF (with 1 1/8" spine, part 387132) and a different disc for Pantera using the -2 ZF (at 1 1/16"). But I'd have to think '132 disc is fine as a replacement. Steve noticed the nose itself should be inspected to make sure there is no interference against the flywheel, but seems to be a pretty safe route. And no reason to change the flywheel...
For brake lines, good news is that the GHP71 was used on lots of cars of the time (Aston Martin, Morgan, Rolls, etc)--Lee
Michael,
The original pilot adapter is simple press in place with a thru hole for the needle bearing as far as I know. My problem is that all of my car was "re-engineered" by owner #3......who is unknown and didn't leave any instruction manual with what they built!!!!
If you look up a Dash 1 Pantera adapter, you will find all the same pieces as were used in the GOose, including perhaps the leather seal....
Attached are some early Pantera bits....pic and a drawing of what John found in his early P-car! (Thanks John...your efforts continue to edumacate folks!!!)
Steve
Attachments
Images (2)
I assume you will be going to a competent shop to have the fly wheel resurfaced. I would imagine there is a shop near you that can not only resurface a fly wheel but also rebuild your clutch disc and the pressure plate to good as new condition
In my 50,000 miles with 2511 I have done this twice and been fully satisfied
Larry
@mangusta thanks for the drawing and info
@lf-tp2511 Yes, they are one of the best shops in Houston. I will check with them tomorrow to see if they can redo the clutch and pressure plate. They are a machine shop, I'm not sure if this is a service they offer though... Worst case I'm sure they can refer me somewhere... I guess I was curious if there was an off the shelf option.
MH
...I have read through most of this and have a couple of suggestions.
1. The 'Shift-Box' (at the ZF) Should Never be DRY!! The Fact is, ALL Sliding/Moving Assemblies should be PACKED with Grease. Especially the 'Ball' Joint! The Box should practically be Near Filled with grease. All Metal to Metal contact Must have Lubrication. In the case of the 'Dry Box', after a good greasing, a Much Smoother, Easier Shifting will be Realized. Plus, the Parts will wear slower.
2. To remove a Steel Needle Bearing from it's Carrier...provided the Plan is to Never re-use the Bearing Again! First clean all grease out with a solvent. Clean solvent out and dry. With a Torch heat the Outer Race of the Bearing, And ONLY the Bearing. You are NOT trying to Expand the Carrier, You want to Heat the Bearing to Expand it! Since the Thermal Dynamics of Steel, dictate "Contraction Is Greater than Expansion", after letting the assembly Air-Cool, the Bearing can be pulled out easily. It may even Fall Out. We do this Every Day at the LFW Machine Shop. Heating the Carrier to Expand it, may Not work...as Both Bearing and Carrier, are Expanding at the same Rate.
3. One does NOT, just change-Over and re-use a Flywheel, from One Engine to Another. Flywheels Must be Re-Balanced ALONG with ALL of the 'Rotating Assembly'...Even the Bearings are Included in a Professional Balancing. Just Bolt it On a New Engine...You'll wonder Why the Rearview Mirror Vibrates!
For What it's Worth,
MJ
Marlin,
Two comments! Great to hear from you!
1) that's a LOT of grease!!! I wonder why ZF never did or recommended this..... No grease zerks where you would expect them to do so! Case of replace parts sooner $$$ ???
2) In this case, you'd need the tiniest torch ever made to heat only the race of a 5/8" diameter needle bearing in the crank adapter! These bearings are only about $5 new, so reuse is sort of a non starter.......!
Great thing to know about the retraction thing, at least for large bearings!
Cheers!
Steve
...You would use a Oxy-Acetylene torch with the Smallest Tip. Careful to Heat and NOT Melt! One could also, machine a SMALL, 'Double-Claw' Hook, that 'Snaps' into the Bearings' Outer Race...Then 'Slide-Hammer' the Bearing Out. Some Slide-Hammer KITS, come with Such a Pilot Bearing Removal Tool.
I remember a few years back, I machined a Carrier out of Steel and put a Oilite Bearing in it. I do not remember the Customer.
The Bearing I.D. was machined to 15mm for the (-1) ZF. The Measurements of the Above Blueprint look correct*. I have been asked to, but have Not machined one since, as they are Very Expensive!
Last, NO Zerk Fitting...That's Why the Box Must be Packed with the Stuff. Perhaps you'll take this opportunity to Drill and Tap, and install the First 'Box' Zerk Fitting.
MJ
* Very nice Drawing of the 'Extension'! Most aren't That well Done. Using Building/Construction Blueprint, 'Arrow-Heads', I have not seen that before. Interesting!
@mangusta posted:Pilot bearing: INA #HK1512
I used a double lipped rubber seal that I found instead of a leather version which should be original...... 15x21x5 MOS/D Double Lip Oil Seal. Sourced via Rocket Seals in Denver. YMMV!
@mangusta HK1512 comes in as 15x21x12 instead of 12x21x5 are there variables I'm missing or is the difference in the rubber/leather seal?
@leea the GHP71 comes in as a three hose package, is that for front or rear? (or either) Right now I'm replacing the hardlines
MH
Michael,
You have it right, looking at it wrong.
Pilot bearing is one thing, seal is the other...... two items, two "descriptions".....
Seal was listed on invoice (???) as "15x21x5 MOS/D Double Lip Oil Seal"
Cheers!
Steve
This stuff on Ford pilot bearings vs bushings comes up about every 5 years or so. Good thing we have the POCA Archives! Personally, I never use a rolling element bearing as a pilot nose support- in any car, since its in the end of the crank. And that is one of the MOST hostile places for a rolling element bearing: inaccessible, hot, intermittent high loads and vibration, with no chance of ever re-greasing it since you'd have to pry out the dust shields for grease access, after pulling the tranny.
For a ZF, a Chevy pilot BUSHING fits the shaft nose but needs a home-made ring-adapter to fit some Ford cranks. And with the price of copper these days, many cut-rate shops are installing those 85% steel Oilite pilot "bushings" that are hard and magnetic. Even if initially greased/oiled, they go dry pretty quickly in that position. A gone-dry steel bearing OR a gone-dry steel/bronze bushing will wear the nose of a ZF. Repairs involve pulling the ZF, disassembly, TIG welding w/stainless steel plus machining ($$$)
So I use Lakewood Industries pilot BUSHING for any ZFs I work on, to protect the ZF nose. I use a magnet to verify it's real bronze. The pilot is SUPPOSED TO BE SACRIFICIAL to support and protect the tranny nose! That means they are not supposed to last forever. YMMV...
M!ke, the same brake hose is used on all 4 corners, its about 433mm total length and use the Girling 3/8-24 thread. https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...e-length-needed-asap
Some folks sell them in packages, but you need (4) of the GHP71.
And yes, I spent a lot of time looking for that Herringbone tubing too, but much better to make sure you get something out of rubber that isn't already 50 years old...replacement hoses are actually one of the easiest things to find for a Goose--Lee
ps. MJ, thanks for the distinction for the ZF shift box ("not dry", at least grease). The note especially on the seal to the shift box is that it should not be leaking from the ZF case, and the shift box should not be susceptible to leaking itself, something that probably won't happen on a Pantera but (with flipped tranny) will happen on the Goose.
...Bushings GUIDE a Shaft or a Drill Bit, to a Point, AXIALLY i.e. SLIDING in and Out, as In the 'Steering Rack' BUSHING.
A BEARING Supports a shaft that will ROTATE within It, and will Rotate AROUND the Shaft. As in a ZF Input Shaft and PILOT BEARING.
Oilite...Real Oilite is a Sintered Bronze that is Compressed at TONS of Pressure to remain 'Solid'. It is Porous and the pores are filled with a Light Oil. Oilite Never Drys-Out! Just warming it, and wearing-in, will cause the Oil to Oooze Out of the Pores. Carrying it in Your pocket, is Not advised, and will cause a Stain in Your Nice Pair of Slaks.
Oilite is Very Soft! Soft enough to Crush, Disrupt, Meld. It will 'Move', adjust, Conform from a High Point to a Low Point, thus self adjusting to most any Mis-Alignment, Axially, of the ZF Input Shaft. A custom Fit. 'Real' Oilite is Never Magnetic. Yes, I check this at all times. At the MOST, there may be 0.10 % Iron. This will not mar or wear the 'Gear-Hardened' Snout of any ZF! I have Tested these Bearings 'To Destruction'! Running the Bearing in the Lathe at 3000 RPM and Driving a Hard Steel Bar directly into it, with Great Force...the Oilite just 'Crushes', and is Displaced Out of the Way. Oilite Bronze is the Best Material for this Job.
MJ