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225 replies

New Heavy Duty 351C Block, by Tod Buttermore

George PGeorge PAdmin.
May 31, 2011

Another update from Tod

quote:


1. I am in the process of making 3 iron castings.

2. I am trying to set up to pour my own aluminum castings. I already have the aluminum furnace, now I just need space. I haven't heard back from the landlord for over two months about renting more space so I am looking at another location. Not only do I have enough block interest to warrant setting up to pour aluminum, I have other work that I can add to it, which helps justify pursuing this way around the lack of foundries willing to pour my blocks.

3. I am looking into getting another horizontal machine, mainly for blocks.

4. I still have at least a year of work back-logged.

5. I am back to a no help situation.

6. I was the topic of a horribly botched news-paper article that may as well have been intended to under-mine my whole livelihood.

7. I am still forging ahead dispite all hinderances and obstacles.

8. I am stupid and stubborn as ever.

The saga continues

Tod

George PGeorge PAdmin.
July 12, 2011

excellent news from Tod!

quote:

I just pulled the third aluminum block out of the machine. I have more aluminum castings ordered and things look good with the machining. After the next 8 blocks it will be time to start on the next batch of customers.

I really appreciate the patience of the current depositors who have stuck with it through all the delays. "Thank You" just doesn't seem like enough to say.

I have no doubt that the iron will take off soon too.

I have told dozens of people to keep their deposit money in hand until I get things going smoothly. That being said, would it be possible to get an idea of how many more people here plan to order a block? I would like to take such info to the bank as I try to get another machine just dedicated to blocks.

Tod

kidkidMember
Pricing, both of iron and aluminum, looks really interesting to me Cool

Not feeling like going through the entire thread (17 pages already), is about all a 1 to 1 fit? I mean things like crank, water pump, distributor, heads, oil pan, etc...? I still can go out shopping for the regular Cleveland parts stuff, and all is just bolt on?

Anything specific one would need to reckon with when going with one of these blocks. I did understand some minor machining still needs to be done, but other than that?
George PGeorge PAdmin.
Cleveland parts are a direct bolt-on, this IS a Cleveland block. It has Windsor oil passages however (main priority). The lifter bores are extended for roller lifters.

Pricing of future sales shall increase, currently being quoted at $2450 for iron, $2850 aluminum.

For that price you get a basic machined block that has 3.99 cylinder bores (iron or aluminum), has the crank rough bored to match the Pro-Gram caps (.020 under sized), has the cam roughed (allowing for finish work to whatever the build requires), and the lifter bores are just drilled to .812 which allows them to be finished by a builder or bushed as some will no doubt prefer.

-G
ehpanteraehpanteraMember
George,
I'm interested in Tod's aluminum block and have a couple of questions.

Are the liners removable and what are they made of?

Can the block be delivered using a different liner material? Without liners?

What is the expected delivery time for orders placed now?

What is the current price?

When is the price increase expected?

Thanks,
Mark
George PGeorge PAdmin.
quote:
Originally posted by ehpantera:

Are the liners removable and what are they made of?



The liners are made of iron.

are you asking if they can be removed after they've been pressed in?

quote:
Originally posted by ehpantera:

Can the block be delivered using a different liner material? Without liners?



These are questions you'll have to ask Tod

quote:
Originally posted by ehpantera:

What is the expected delivery time for orders placed now?



This is another question you'll have to ask Tod directly, although I suspect his answer will be that he can't predict the delivery time.

quote:
Originally posted by ehpantera:

What is the current price?



Any future orders will be at the higher price ... i.e.$2450 & $2850.

quote:
Originally posted by ehpantera:

When is the price increase expected?



Its already happened. The $2850 price of the aluminum block is incredibly inexpensive, but there's probably $2000 worth of finished machine work needed, so keep that in mind.

-G
joulesjoules"Racing is Life, anything before or after is just waiting" - Steve McQueen
You can follow Tod's progress on the 351C forum too, although George does a good job of posting the updates here too.

351C Forum - Tod Buttermore

I am sure once Tod has everything worked out blocks will start rolling out quicker, but at present I don't know he has delivered on any of the pre-orders, other than one to MME. Mine is #15 alloy....

Julian
D danieljonesMember
Tod refunded my deposit on an aluminum block even though I didn't ask for it back. He unilaterally sent it back. I feared that meant the project was dead but he said no. He said he saw on some forum that I was dissatisfied with the delivery delay and so was refunding my money. I never posted anything like that and asked where he saw it but he couldn't remember. I was one of the early ones in the queue. Maybe it got re-routed to someone more important?

Dan Jones
T todbuttermoreMember
quote:
Posted November 02, 2011 10:34 AM Hide Post
Tod refunded my deposit on an aluminum block even though I didn't ask for it back. He unilaterally sent it back. I feared that meant the project was dead but he said no. He said he saw on some forum that I was dissatisfied with the delivery delay and so was refunding my money. I never posted anything like that and asked where he saw it but he couldn't remember. I was one of the early ones in the queue. Maybe it got re-routed to someone more important?

Dan Jones



Really?

Does this ring any bells?

http://list.realbig.com/piperm...11-March/132455.html


It says:

[DeTomaso] MME?s 21st CENTURY CLEVELAND 2K CRATE ENGINE: THE FIRST OF ITS KIND
Daniel C Jones daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
Tue Mar 29 15:18:06 CDT 2011
Previous message: [DeTomaso] MME?s 21st CENTURY CLEVELAND 2K CRATE ENGINE: THE FIRST OF ITS KIND
Next message: [DeTomaso] MME?s 21st CENTURY CLEVELAND 2K CRATE ENGINE: THE FIRST OF ITS KIND
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Are they using refurbished original cast iron blocks? What bore? I'd
> hate to find they bored it more than .030" over or even just -at-
> .030" and then have it grenade on me because of thin walls.

No that is an all aftermarket engine using Tod Buttermore's blocks
(still not shipping to those of us that put a deposit down 3+ years ago).
Think 5 figure price out-the-door.

Dan Jones

If people don't like that I have 2 years worth of work back-logged and no help of any sort and they choose to publicly express displeasure then they shouldn't be suprised if I end their displeasure now, right? I have been completely open and honest about the problems I have encountered and yet the plain and simple English I have spoken seems above and beyond the capacity of some to understand.

I have given everyone who has emailed me detailed explanations of what is going on at the time. I am not doing that anymore on the Cleveland forum because the last thread had posts deleted (not even mine) and then was locked. If people want to know something they can email me.

Tod
D danieljonesMember
The internet is an imperfect medium of communication. If you'd pointed
me to that post when I asked about it, I could have explained. I get a
lot of Pantera guys asking me to help with their engine projects and I
help as much as I can. A number have asked me about the expected
availability of your block. Some of the guys need or want a block in a
relatively short time, say a couple of months. For them, your block is
not an option. For those that decide they can wait, they need to be
prepared to wait for the block's development to be completed, the initial
batch of orders delivered and a second batch produced. My post was simply
meant as a warning that they needed to be prepared to wait an indefinite
time. Given that my post was some 7 months ago and you're still in
development, I think that was a reasonable statement. I did not mean to
imply I personally was unhappy with the wait. I knew full well the risks
when I put my money down.

I do admit to being unhappy that you unilateraly decided to send back my
deposit. When I sent in the deposit, I assumed it to be a contract of sorts.
I provide you with capital to help develop the project in exchange for you
holding a place for me in the initial order of blocks at the agreed upon
price. I'm sorry you decided to breach this agreement because of a simple
post I made. In any event, I wish you the best of luck on the project.

Dan Jones
R revcMember
Just so everyone knows, I have not stopped my project with the MME announcement coming about. I am pushing ahead with the aluminum foundry and have the new machining center for blocks. I have some 10 orders to fill asap and then will start to accept orders from the many dozens of inquiries I have refused to take money from.

Tod Buttermore
George PGeorge PAdmin.
April 12, 2012

Another update from Tod

quote:

Space for my aluminum foundry has been acquired! I take possession May 1st. Aluminum blocks will recieve priority, but I also have at least a half dozen other parts to make on a regular basis. It will be nice to have more control over production.

I am also heading back to the iron foundry for iron block castings. I made the pattern easier for them to mold. If I have to, my core shop can assemble the molds so pouring the blocks is the only time the iron foundry has to make room for. I'm trying to eliminate any excuse they may have for not pouring my iron blocks.

Tod


-G
George PGeorge PAdmin.
June 2, 2012

Another update from Tod

quote:

After all the waiting, and setting up of the pattern for high production, good iron castings were poured yesterday. I incorporated a core moving solution that proved 100% effective. The owner of the foundry couldn't even detect my solution. 2 castings poured yesterday and 2 more to come next week. Now that the iron is to my liking, moving ahead without reserve is comfortable. I had a bad week in some respects but these beautiful castings made it all fade away.

Giddyup!

Tod


-G
George PGeorge PAdmin.
June 11, 2012

Another update from Tod

quote:

I put together two more molds Saturday which will be poured today. Hopefully we'll get two more successful castings. I'm going to go through my emails and let all the interested parties know iron is a go if I see good results tomorrow. These first 4 are already spoken for.

Tod


-G
George PGeorge PAdmin.
June 12, 2012

Another update from Tod

quote:

The next two look even better than the last two. Several logistic and production flow issues have been put in place now to make this move along like I want it to.

Thanks to all of you who have constantly emailed me and/or expressed your support on this forum.

Now it is time to put the dealer/builder organization together and get these things really moving.

Tod


-G
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by Coolvet:
Will this new block be as strong as the XE192540 block? Will the casting look similar or will it be noticeably different to an original Cleveland block?


Better. Although the "NASCAR" block is thick through the pan rails and bulkheads, the bore liners are still thin.

This new block fixes that but really is much more then anyone could ever need for a street engine but if you really wanted to try to rev a stroker engine, this would be the block to use since the cylinder walls are thicker at the thrust points in the bores.
George PGeorge PAdmin.
January 2, 2013

Another update from Tod

quote:

I have finally been able to take some time and work on final setup of my new horizontal machining center. That meant adding additional 480V access for the transformer, setting the machine in place (quite a chore!), programming in fixed canned cycles (since the memory board battery was dead when I bought the machine), test running various programs, and a host of other initial setup items, all while doing the daily paying work.

I have 4 iron blocks ready to machine and need to cast a few more aluminum to fill first run orders. Several dealers have been patiently waiting for everything to come together. Hopefully this year will see much improvement in getting into production.

Thanks to everyone here for your patient support and understanding.

Tod


-G
C coolvetMember
quote:
Originally posted by Cowboy from Hell:
January 2, 2013

Another update from Tod

quote:

I have finally been able to take some time and work on final setup of my new horizontal machining center. That meant adding additional 480V access for the transformer, setting the machine in place (quite a chore!), programming in fixed canned cycles (since the memory board battery was dead when I bought the machine), test running various programs, and a host of other initial setup items, all while doing the daily paying work.

I have 4 iron blocks ready to machine and need to cast a few more aluminum to fill first run orders. Several dealers have been patiently waiting for everything to come together. Hopefully this year will see much improvement in getting into production.

Thanks to everyone here for your patient support and understanding.

Tod


-G


This thread began in 2007, so is this latest update believable? Is it likely these blocks will be delivered in 2013?
R revcMember
quote:
Originally posted by Coolvet:
quote:
Originally posted by Cowboy from Hell:
January 2, 2013

Another update from Tod

quote:

I have finally been able to take some time and work on final setup of my new horizontal machining center. That meant adding additional 480V access for the transformer, setting the machine in place (quite a chore!), programming in fixed canned cycles (since the memory board battery was dead when I bought the machine), test running various programs, and a host of other initial setup items, all while doing the daily paying work.

I have 4 iron blocks ready to machine and need to cast a few more aluminum to fill first run orders. Several dealers have been patiently waiting for everything to come together. Hopefully this year will see much improvement in getting into production.

Thanks to everyone here for your patient support and understanding.

Tod


-G


This thread began in 2007, so is this latest update believable? Is it likely these blocks will be delivered in 2013?


Coolvet, I'm sure you are unaware of the obstacles I have had to endure. That's understandable. I was completely caught off guard and I have 36 years in the industry. Right now everything I am making is spoken for, in both aluminum and iron. I have at least 4 dealer/builders lined up to work with customers. I have several blocks going to Australia. The next iron block I machine is a special going to Aus. All remaining back orders will be filled before I take more orders. I have refused deposits on dozens of blocks because production flow was not in place. I have documented the reasons for delays so many times that I will not do it again here. I have had to work personally to do the work of my suppliers for them to get past all of the hurdles. It is sad, but true. If you care to hear details contact me by email and I can fill you in.

Tod
C coolvetMember
Hi Tod,
Thanks for your reply. I was trying not to offend you but wanted to know if this was a real live project. I now understand that it is. I have no idea what hurdles you have had to negotiate but this is clearly not a small project.

I am interested in a couple of your cast iron blocks for a circuit race car in Australia. We want to have this car ready by February 2014.

Is it likely that we could get a block from you in mid-2013?

PS: I couldn't find an email address for you.
R revcMember
quote:
Originally posted by Coolvet:
Hi Tod,
Thanks for your reply. I was trying not to offend you but wanted to know if this was a real live project. I now understand that it is. I have no idea what hurdles you have had to negotiate but this is clearly not a small project.

I am interested in a couple of your cast iron blocks for a circuit race car in Australia. We want to have this car ready by February 2014.

Is it likely that we could get a block from you in mid-2013?

PS: I couldn't find an email address for you.


Coolvet, email me at

tlb427351

at

yahoo dot com

Tod
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