Goose 8MA642 Refurb and Repaint

Doesn't look right. The waterpump on your diagram only has incomming water....strange..

would not the water pump discharge be directly into the block (no hoses) and the hot coolant from the block and heads enter the "water neck"?

I do think the flow from the radiator vent would be towards the yellow tank (fill tank ?)

On your headers, I once saw a CA goose with 'boat-zoomies'- std headers installed upside-down that fixed the a-arm clearance problem, while making the engine harder to work on. Steve Liebenow found the heater valves were not connected on his '69. A Boss 302 is a real mess to install in a Mangusta but a factory EFI non-Boss 302 fits exceptionally well.

Thanx for inputs. Didn't draw motor on chart. Water pump flow out is into block. My weber intake has only the two main water outlets. In my case, the water neck component is separate from the intake but functions the same as if it was connected.

Wondered about 'vent hose' flow, but all the drawings I looked at showed the flow the same making me think it's not a vent hose.

Mark

REGARDING YOUR HEADERS.
When my engine was redone the builders wanted to use 22/4 inch headers pipes to the mufflers. We built a beautiful set of headers that instead of going down and through the rear suspension like the original went up.

The tubes come off the heads and go up and back to a collector, over the top link of the hub carrier and then turn straight down, they turn again to the back of the car and straight in to the mufflers. It works great as there is no exhaust heat near the starter or motor mounts.

The gave me the large header pipe and no interference with the rear suspension. My headers are equal length tubes and very efficient. I have never had any trouble with them, they are jet coated silver.

DICK RUZZIN

quote:

Originally posted by Dick Ruzzin:
REGARDING YOUR HEADERS.
When my engine was redone the builders wanted to use 22/4 inch headers pipes to the mufflers. We built a beautiful set of headers that instead of going down and through the rear suspension like the original went up.

The tubes come off the heads and go up and back to a collector, over the top link of the hub carrier and then turn straight down, they turn again to the back of the car and straight in to the mufflers. It works great as there is no exhaust heat near the starter or motor mounts.

The gave me the large header pipe and no interference with the rear suspension. My headers are equal length tubes and very efficient. I have never had any trouble with them, they are jet coated silver.
DICK RUZZIN

We want to see pictures... Sounds like an interesting setup.

Motor/ZF ready to pull.
- So I don't have to go thru the syncing gears/linkage/turnbuckle drill during reinstall, does anyone see a problem with drilling out the pin on shaft from ZF that connects with linkage and just replacing with SS nut/bolt? I did this on a Bora 10 years ago and its worked fine.
- Went thru the forum to determine best way - both together or separate (the way I did this a few years ago). For separate, does the bell housing come out with the ZF or does it stay with motor? For separate, looks like a clearance issue at the back of he ZF with the frame. Do you jack up motor to angle ZF for clearance of frame?

Other
- How do you remove wipers?
- Assume you remove wiper motor and window sprayer from inside the dash. Is this Right?
- Assume you remove Ghia emblems from sides by going in thru door in each wheel well. Sound right?

Thanx
Mark

I'd try real hard to remove but NOT drill the pin out, as the ZF shaft is high-carbon steel that easily air-hardens with even slightly used drills. Then you will be into beating the remains out with a hammer & punch or using expensive, fragile carbide drill bits while still laying on your back underneath.

Once the pin is out, an aircraft-grade 8 bolt & nut will work fine and be easily removable. But what normally happens is, the mild steel clevis ears of the connecting shaft elongate, introducing slop. Bushing the clevis holes while leaving the short ZF shaft alone, works best.

quote:

How do you remove wipers?- Assume you remove wiper motor and window sprayer from inside the dash. Is this Right?- Assume you remove Ghia emblems from sides by going in thru door in each wheel well. Sound right?

Hi Mark, sounds like your project is moving along. I agree w/ Jack the gear linkage is a pain to work on, the positioning is all terrible!! That said on my car the pins were roll pins and the rear one (which I think you are referring to) comes in/out with relative ease. The one further ahead, near the joint in the shaft and near the engine mount, is MUCH worse to deal with. IIRC the shaft assembly can be disconnected by removing the rear pin only, assuming it cooperates.

Re the wipers and sprayer it's all under the dash as you mention, should not be a problem. As for the badges they are actually ahead of the shields located behind either front wheel so you don't need to remove anything to get access.

Thanx Nate, roll pin popped right out and ZF removed; that will save a lot of anguish getting everything in sync again on the other end; motor removal today.

Dick, have some 351C headers that will fit Boss motor ... already had cut flanges from pipes; once motor is out and while car be repainted, will try to fit/cut/weld them so they exit up over suspension as you described ... just isn't enough room on either side thru frame/support to install headers going down.

A few questions,
1) how are the stainless steel wiper blades removed to get to nut that allows complete removal from under dash ... doesn't appear to be a small screw on wiper hub, but I do see a pin where the blade meets the wiper hub?
2) with front bonnet wide open and disassembled, what are key areas to refurb up front (already implemented the dual electric fan fix with spal fans a few years ago)?
3) both wheel/tires up front appear to tow out ... can a std wheel/brake/alignment shop work on the Mangusta front end?
3) radiator is removed ... didn't leak; should it be cleaned and if so, what is the best best method?

When car was painted red in 1971-72, they neglected to paint under the pad on the inside of the front trunk lid. So, original color is loud and clear and it appears to be a gold metallic(very similar to prototype - see picture). Any one know what this color is?

Thanx
Mark

FYI...wrt removing wiper arms and after researching this type on web...as it turns out, the wiper arms on my Goose pried off pulling straight up...there was no screw or locking nut involved...they are held in place with a snug fit on the splined wiper post

Will tackle pulling windows from doors today.

Headlights (4 type) ... to completely remove headlights and bezel, etc for painting, looks like rivets need to be drilled out on both side to get everything out ... sound right?

NO, just a couple phillips screws

That goose is gorgeous in that gold.

Thanx Dennis C ... that tidbit of data helped me get front end apart in no time ... don't know how I missed those screws, they were right there!

That is a unique and very pretty color. It completely changes the image of the car in my mind.
Very nice.

Mark,

re the cooling diagram, I can only say that it looks too complicated. I'm also not a Weber expert.

I would hook it up exactly like a 69 Mustang with webers. Excepting the "Y" pipe at the front of the engine that the Goose uses from T-stat outlet down to pipe to up front (hot water out). Also, the one small connection at the bottom of the radiator is different.

All the rest of the connections could be made as if it were a simple Ford. That is what I boiled my drawings down to...while comparing to a very original car with water valves...and then there was my car with nothing left of the valves, and no crossover between the two heater core hoses, BEFORE the shut off valves that I installed in the cabin for emergency and ease of activating heater! Yes, it gets used in my car!

ZF comes out while tipping engine forward...loosen everything that would allow you to do this...take off dist cap....

While engine is tilted forward, you can take off front jackshaft pulley. This makes pulling engine easier.

Then take off starter, bellhousing, flywheel, and block plate. This really makes pulling engine much easier!

Steve

Car headed to repaint this week. Bought a couple of steering rack boots to install before it heads out. Should I grease arm and teeth with normal black grease, or is there something specific to use?

Thanx
Mark

MARK

1.
The wiper ARMS are removed by depressing a small stainless tab toward the center of the shaft and then pulling the hub straight up in alignment with the center of the shaft.
It is hard to see, I think it is facing in the direction of the blade. Look very closely to find it. Once the little is depressed you can wiggle the base of the arm, pull gently and it will come off. Do not pull it without depressing the lock first.

2.
Up front seal everything so that ALL air entering the front of the car has to go through the radiator. At the top of the radiator before putting the top panel on use foam to block off all spaces so that air cannot go over the radiator and then behind it. See the article on Mangusta International for details.

3.
Try to find a shop that has a computer alignment machine with two towers as described in the article on MangustaInternational.com. They have to align the rear wheels first and then the front. A good technician will know what to do. Show them the description described above.

4.Your gold paint may not be like the paint on the prototype. The prototype was a different car altogether although it looked to most people like the later production version of the Mangusta. You might be able to get a color content reading at a paint supply with a computer if there is enough surface to measure.

DICK RUZZIN

The Goose is now in the shop for repaint (will probably get it back in the fall). Based on thickness of the various layers and skin cleanup due to age, the car will be taken to bare metal and repainted. Will get all chrome components rechromed and have appropriate components powder coated. Will also be going from red to the original metallic gold (example of original color from behind seat insulation attached). In the mean time, will be performing motor rebuild to include installing correct cam (Crane Cams 363841) for IDA Webers on Boss 302; fabricating 'up and over' headers due to limited space between Boss motor and engine bay; planning how to force cool air thru just the radiator in line with other forum posts; etc).

Appreciate all the advise.

Thanx
Mark

MARK,
I suggest an adjustable, brake proportioning valve to be installed in the front brake T. They make them now to include the stop light switch.
A huge safety improvement.

Dick Ruzzin

Btw, what car is that in the May 27th post ? the proto didn't have the gas filler outside and had different headlights, I see this one has external hinges (!) so someone went thru a lot of work to make a beautiful car...Lee

Lee.

That car is "numero uno"!

Factory museum car, originally a push car...later converted to an operational car!

My DNA is in that car....
Steve

Wow....btw, there is a guy in Florida (our friend Al, the Vintage Air guy...) that has parts from this prototype...Lee

I doubt they are parts from THE prototype. They may be similar but the prototype is alive and well, the DeT family kept it. If I recall correctly a member here has a one piece bumper just like the prototype car.

It is alive and well. Just saw it last week, and it will appear in a upcoming book about the deTomaso brand.

Oh, and I asked about the comment about the first mangusta being a push car, and later made functional. my Aunt did not think that was correct. She did recall that for shows several engines were shown in the car, but many were just "press fitted" into the car for display. The example was there was a special photo session for Corgi when they came to photograph and measure the car for the miniature. I do know that in 1978, there was a Cleavland in the car, as I worked on it that summer.

Do you know anything about the gold Mangusta touring the track at Monte Carlo after the push car was shown in the Turin show giving Princess Grace a ride?

Dick Ruzzin

Received windshield (14802100 - 260EU), two rear doors (14802110 - 290EU), drv and pass door (14802160 - 64EU), and front bonnet (14802180 - 80EU) rubber from Cicognani today. Process was very easy and they were very responsive. Won't be installing for a couple of months so can't comment on fit yet. Shipping was 75EU. Total was 769EU.

Hi Mark, I am in discussions with them at present re the fit of the rear hatch glass. if you get a chance could you try and lay the seals around your glass as this will give a very good indication if they are correct. I know there windscreen fits correctly now thanks to Johnny Woods efforts with then. Mike

Car is in strip and paint for a few months so won't be able to check seals until they get to that stage.

Thanks Mark, I have sent them a detailed diagram with sizes and radius of edge where curved to hopefully ensure a good fit. Will see how we go.
Mike

Radiator
- status while in car was no leaks
- from what material is original goose radiator constructed
- with radiator removed from car, what is best approach to cleaning it
- for storing over the next three-to four months, should I fill with 50/50 mix to prevent corrosion
- any ideas would be appreciated

Thanx
Mark

Mark,

I didn't get the original radiator with my car, but these were built by the same company that built radiators for Fiats, or so I was told, and our old Fiat had a brass radiator.

Most that still have them, are happy with them as far as cooling goes! Providing you get cool air into the motor to begin with...!

I would drain it, rinse it out, and just let it air dry. In TX that shouldn't be much of an issue.

If you are going to have it serviced, ie professionally cleaned, a shop will server you best here as they'll have a large tank to dunk it in...save you a lot of PITA work! Have them flow test it first. If it flows fine...it doesn't need much cleaning!

Cheers! That gold is going to look nice! Can't wait to see more pic's!
Steve

get it to a radiator shop and have it inspected...mine needed to be rebuilt, lots of clogs in the fins. The wonderful news is that these brass radiators can be rebuilt...Same with the interior heater core.
You just really don't want to guess whether the radiator is cooling as it should...just too easy to have a radiator looked at professionally. Especially for a 45 year old Italian car...Lee

Hi Folks.
I am starting repainting my Mangusta 8MA1242 bought 3 years ago. It is painted red, but, as it often turns out, when peeling off that paint, the original color appeared : dark (slightly metallized) blue.
Problem is, in Denis C post from June 27,2011,this color is not mentioned. However, 8MA1242 is a late car, and, according to Pantera International, the official colour catalog of the early Panteras features a "Bleu sera met. n°033.8.012" from Glidden (Industria Smalti e Vernici, Milano).
Would anyone know if that colour was also used on Mangustas ?
Thank you for your advice.
Jean

Radiator .... took to shop to have cleaned and they saw some sodder that needed to be prepared. They did the work and tested it today. They called saying the core has pin hole leaks and can be rebuilt for about $600 ... what are your thoughts ... go with an after market modern radiator (and if so what is best make and model for mangusta), or get the original repaired?

Thanx
Mark

Mark,
I'd say it's $600 of one or $600 of the other....!!!

The originals are alleged to be fantastic radiators.......

I put a new aluminum one in ONLY because my original was long gone and mounts were already modified (not to great standards..), not to mention all the fan stuff was cobbled together too.....so it wasn't like I was "changing" anything from stock.

I would like to see the original style maintained if possible. But that's me.

If they can get you the same style of core, with all the fins etc, that would be great!!!!

Fans could probably use help however. At very least, take originals out, lube the bronze bearings with oil, and seal up any air leaks around the radiator so air doesn't bypass it!
(thanks Dick!!!)

Steve

Radiator ... the rest of the story ... the radiator shop can recore the original brass and copper radiator for $625 (takes about 3 days since one of the 2 or 3 core plants left in the states happens to be in Fort Worth -- near where I live). They said I could go with either the original inline tubes with flat pins, or for a 20% increase in cooling for same price, go with staggered tubes and louvered pins maintaining original look. They indicated that unless someone got down and was looking at the core, the radiator would look the same since they are reusing the original tank components. What do you think -- upgraded original? Original? Or modern radiator?

Thanx for you help
Mark