I started on my engine swap last week. Have been working on the new engine for over a year, with other stuff thrown in for fun & distraction...and it has been easier to just turn the key and drive the car....but I want to have it installed for the 40th anniversary of the production Mangusta, and drive it to Reno for the annual POCA convention in June!

Needless to say, the process of taking out the ill fitting and worn out Boss 302, and fitting a new 5.0 based 302 has been a challenge!

One of my major goals was to fit the stock air cleaner back under the shields, so that I can draw cool air into the engine. I always had cooling issues, exaggerated by Las Vegas temps on every visit, and this last year, found out that I need CLEAN air as well!!! Those of you that watch the DeTomaso Forum know what I speak of.... I also wanted to have the car look a little more stock, since my car came with a lot of the original parts still in tact. Perhaps chromed, but there!

Another goal was to use a 5.0 based roller cam block and use "off the shelf" parts. In this case, aluminum Motorsports Y303 heads, and an Edelbrock RPM intake, Holley carb, and the stock air cleaner.

All of my calculations and measurements on the engine stand were coming up bad. The RPM model was too tall. So, I had an Edelbrock Performer modified to fit the tall port Y303 heads. It turns out to barely NOT clear the hatches according to the calculations as well!!!!

I bummed an old Edelbrock F4B from a friend after an owner up in Reno said, "yah I have an F4B and the stock air cleaner fits just fine! Well, again, my measurements said otherwise....

I was beginning to doubt my abilities to run a Stanley tape measure!!!

So, I borrowed a C8ZE (stock cast iron) intake and carb spacer from another buddy and figured that this would end all issues.... It didn't. In fact the stock setup was only a matter of thousandths of an inch shorter than the Performer RPM!!!! Something is wrong here.

So, since I was doing this all on the engine stand, and comparing measurements to known similar/same points in the car and it was only serving to frustrate me, I made the decision to begin this odyssey once again.

Last time I did this, it was 2001. That was the first time that I had the car back together, after receiving it in various boxes and loose parts, that I drove the car with any sort of confidence and any sort of distance! It turned out to be quite an adventure including bottoming out the on the bellhousing not 15 miles from the driveway, a speeding ticket 2 miles further up the road and an oil pan repair in Barstow CA on the return trip, but we made it there and home, and have done it every year since then....including more adventures!!! It has been the ONLY Mangusta in Vegas for 7 years! nudge nudge wink wink!

So, please follow along with me as I attempt to document this process in word and picture....as soon as I figure out how to add pictures properly without taking up too much server space!!! (My avatar photo was taken in 2001 as I thrashed to get the car on the road!)

Day 1. Hatch off to begin test fitting manifolds and eventually install new engine.



My Boss 302 installation. Note modified hatch cover and missing hatch cover stand. Also how tight the smaller diameter air cleaner is to the hatch. There is actually tension on the air cleaner by the hatch covers. (Aussie 2V heads with Street Boss intake on a Boss 302 bottom end.)



More Later!
Steve

Day 2.

I removed parts and pieces so that I can pull the intake and begin test fitting intakes.

First was removing the interior, seats and console to get to the front of the engine to disconnect various bits. I also started draining the cooling system and the oil.

I have installed seat belts from a mid 90's Thunderbird. Rear seats I believe. No shoulder belts. All attaching nuts were already welded to my chassis. I had to cut the holes in the console leather and I did have to shorten the Ford bolts, but the threads were a match! Picture shows bits and pieces with console still in car. I used a piece of leather to cushion the load on the console leather as it had shrunk and pulled away from the fiber glass, to prevent tearing.


Here is a shot backed off a bit.


Then things got real crazy when I found this. I had noticed my clutch slave hose was tight on the "ladder bar" that connects the two shock top mounts together...



NOT GOOD!!!



Front side view:


Here is a shot of what is left of my center jackshaft bearing. This went south on my way home from Vegas this year. Since I was planning on replacing this whole mess anyway, and since the other two bearings were fine, I didn't bother rushing to repair anything. This is with the jackshaft bracket was removed....and I found this residue hiding....



Magnet worked to retrieve the big parts!


The removed parts pile for the day.



Intake came off after I cleaned up all the metallic bits and blew it off with air and a vacuum to catch some.....

First test, Performer 289 Intake, 3/8" spacer (to help carb clear the jackshaft)and a 428 Ford air cleaner. OK fit! But I'd hate to cut up a $500 air cleaner base to do this!


Now the stock air cleaner. Interference at front panel and at rear air tube connections. Removing the spacer resulted in only a slight touching of the front panel. Rear was OK.


Here's a shot underneath showing no spacer.


Top View


Now I switch to the Edelbrock Performer RPM, carb and stock air cleaner. No carb spacer. Note interference at rear of the hole cut in the shield and the gap at the front caused by the air cleaner hitting the front panel. No way a spacer is going to work!


I tried the 428 air cleaner just for kicks... slight touching at front, ribs on shield would probably just touch the air cleaner top.


Now for the vintage F4B Edelbrock that supposedly fits! No spacer, no way! Note gap at front! Contact at rear of hole.



The 428 air cleaner had some touching at the front and probably at the rear again....

STOCK AIR INTAKE MANIFOLD...this has gotta fit, right???

NOPE!

This shot shows how the front panel doesn't fit down....


428 air cleaner actually fit well! Note the light you can see in the gaps!


OK, enough intake madness!!!

For those of you wondering how I can test regular intakes on a set of Boss 302 type heads, note in this shot that the two center bolt holes are in the same location! This is a shot of the Performer intake with extra metal added onto the top so that they would seal better to the heads! (RPM has this metal cast in place...)






Tomorrow, more discoveries!

Steve

Day three.

When I sent my original email out to my private Goose mailing list a few days back, regarding jackshaft bearings and my intake issues, Dana Hansen of Mangusta International fame answered back saying that his engine was out currently and that he could measure anything I needed...

So, I took him up on it. I measured from the top surface of my engine compartment to the top of the frame rails (at rear of engine/bellhousing parting point) <15 3/8">, and to the top of the bottom frame rails <24">. I also measured the height of the frame rails <2">, and the height from the bottom of the lower frame rail to the top of the engine mount bracket <6 9/16">, typed it all up and mailed it off to Dana.

A matter of minutes later, (while I was removing a scad of other stuff to be listed later...) I got a note back from him with a picture full of blue masking tape and black numbers and arrows! Imagine my surprise when I noted that his dimension for the engine mount bracket was only 5"!!!!

Here is a view of the right hand mount, outside of the fame rail. Note the extra seams!!! Frankenmounts!!!


Left mount, again outside of frame rail.


At last!! I finally know what my problem is! The previous owners had to raise the Boss 302 to get the exhaust ports raised above the frame rails.... It was either raise the motor or lower the frame rails..... I guess raising the mounts was easier!

Some more shots dinking around....trying to fit my NEW jackshaft bracket and idler pulley bracket to the motor with a stock intake, to get a baseline to determine how far off a different intake would put stuff....


View of new bracket on engine. Note that the rear bearing is now a 52mm diameter where all earlier versions were 47mm!!! (I was able to find bearings easily to fit!)


Mismatch of idler bracket to front of J/S bracket. I will need to do some work on this...machining rear mounts of idler bracket and perhaps welding up the holes and redrilling in proper location.


Spot facing of J/S bracket may be needed too. This is not a "snap together" project!


Enuf for now!
Steve

Day three and a half/four!

Here is a list of stuff that I worked on disconnecting etc on day three and into day four.

Jackshaft is already out, rh idler bracket, as is intake.

Water pump pulley
All belts
Coolant overflow tank
Heater hoses
Alternator
AC compressor mounts
Oil Temp sensor wire
Oil Pressure sensor wire
Fuel line
Oil lines (remote filter) and filter adapter
Starter wire and bolts (starter is held captive by pan and frame rails! Don't drop it!)
Bellhousing lower shield bolts (3)
Header bolts, and mufflers
Clutch slave cylinder
Speedo Cable
Shifter linkage roll pin

Loosened bellhousing bolts
Shock upper mount bolts
ZF crossmember bolts
Axle flange bolts (removed two each, left two in case I move the car, don't want axles flopping....)

Disconnect any coil or distributor wires, temp sensor wires. Throttle linkage.

Have ZF bolts to loosen yet, to bellhousing. Will do these just before removing ZF. I don't try to pull the whole thing out as one assembly.

Here are some shots of an intake manifold that would fit just fine!!! Don't think I'm not thinking about it!!!!


This is a modern "GT40" tubular intake for fuel injection. Jackshaft bracket would require modification to clear injectors...and I'm not quite ready to cut up my brand spanking new one just yet!!!


Plenty of clearance!


But, I need to find a place to hide the computer and wiring, add a high pressure pump and return lines...PLUS troubleshoot the whole danged thing.....before June....

Here is a shot of my current oil pan... that will be dropping down at the front by over 1.5".....note the bracket for the brake proportioning valve sticking down....it has lost some material on my driveway....!!! Oil pan will now be lower! ANGLED entry and exit from the driveway! No head-on moves!!!!






I guess I could shorten the pan....I believe it is a 9qt (with remote filter) capacity, and is fully baffled. If it were to be cut back to 7qts that wouldn't be a large deal I don't think...but perhaps taking a half inch to 3/4 inch out may be in order....



I also found this pic of the Right Hand mount, but picture from the inside of the frame rail. Note my 57 Chevy rubber biscuit, the Frankenmount welds, and the top of the brake proportioning valve.




Maybe I can come up with a stepped mount such that when I decide to put in the GT40 EFI manifold, I can easily raise the engine back up in the front?????

To date, she sits waiting for time to part the ZF and engine. Maybe Thurs eve....or the weekend... Did some calling and ordered jackshaft bearings from a local bearing house. Ordered spares.....for the traveling tool box.

Ciao!
Steve

quote:

Maybe I can come up with a stepped mount such that when I decide to put in the GT40 EFI manifold, I can easily raise the engine back up in the front?????

Don't get too fancy- that only brings heartache and poorness; I know! A thick aluminum spacer-washer on stock mounts should work fine.

Day Five/Six ish.

OK, finally got back into it this weekend. Took the ZF out, bellhousing/clutch, and eventually the motor. Took some engine compartment shots for "reference" to help me with what it looked like when it was still working......

NOTE: If you haven't recently checked the torque on your bolts that hold the axle shafts to the flanges, do it! Mine were replaced with new bolts/nuts about 20K miles ago, and I found a couple that were starting to loosen a tad. I will add this task to my "oil change" list....stuff to do to the car when you change the oil.....

Getting the engine out was interesting, since I had to remove the trans cross member and the ladder bar and due to my cracked shock mount, made that task all the more interesting, as any pressure in the form of weight on the LH wheel made the crack want to go BIGGER!

So, the LH frame rail found a jackstand holding it up....while the engine hoist went in over the RH tire on a diagonal course. The boom arm was not long enuf to come straight in from the rear.

Once the engine was out, I put a jackstand on the RH side of the frame too, but left the wheels on with blocks underneath....we are in earthquake country after all.

Trucked the LH hatch and spine down to the mini-storage for safe keeping while I clean up the chassis and ready the engine for installation. Cleaned up the ZF, bellhousing, and all the rest of the greasy parts that came out. Better to do it now....next time I touch them, they'll be clean! That ZF is one heavy piece of aluminum.....!

Good things: Clutch wear on the kevlar/kevlar disc looks fantastic! Wear on flywheel and pressure plate is non-existent! (No pic yet!).

I did think that I made a mistake in my pilot bearing though, by putting some grease in the hole before putting the trans in. This is a no-no, as grease will clog the holes in the sintered bronze and prevent oiling.... Oil is OK, but grease is not! Polished the ZF input shaft up with ultra fine wet/dry paper and parts cleaner solution. Looks great! May need a new pilot bushing....

OK, here are some pic's of the efforts.

Mismatch in the ZF cross member area, RH side. Tension on the frame.


I had to rig a tie-down strap to release some of the pressure, in order to get the bolt out...


Missing the pic's but basically used the engine hoist to lift the ZF while maneuvering it out. Sort of a counter clockwise rotation of it worked, until it could be lowered out the opening just aft of the axles. The top ears fit thru the tailpipe slot in the rear valance area, so I didn't need to lift the car up any further.


Here is what is left......


What I found when I pulled the bellhousing off, and the pressure plate. Guess I will be using some different lock washers.......


The discard pile for the day!


Out comes the engine. One less stressed mechanic when the engine got this far... Getting the hoist in there is a puzzle of sorts....and easy does it moving it up and out...over the charged AC line!


That was it....plus cleaning up greasy parts. Loaded the engine onto my trusty shopping cart just for moving such things and moved it out on the side of the garage for storage, and eventual stripping of Goose bits from it, pulleys, idlers, pilot bushing adapter, and oil pan.

Steve

Steve, thanks for the pictures and commentary.It's interesting,educational and fun to watch someone rebuild a Goose, a rare opportunity. Good luck with your project and i'am looking forward to seeing your blue beast in Reno. Chuck

Steve,

I'm sure there are a bunch of us who are following your project with great interest. I too REALLY appreciate you putting all this work into posting your progress for the benefit of the rest of us. I really wish I was closer so I could come over and scrape some knuckles while learning first-hand. Many thanks and good luck!

Mark

Day 7.
Thanks guys!!!

I had forgotten how much fun it is to climb in and out of a Mangusta chassis.... Now that the hatches are off, it is the only way to do things, if you don't want to lay on your back and work, although some of that is required too whether you want or not! Kicked one blade of my AC condensor fan with my timberline and sent half of it flying.....ugh. Put it on the list...

Was going to start washing down the frame rails with solvent tonite, but it got to late to be stinking up the place....so settled for popping off the motor mount brackets (the 57 Chevy fix..) and the LH shock and wheel so that I can get at stuff. Also pulled the axle shafts for cleaning and inspection again.

Motor mount brackets: When you drill and tap 1/2" steel for threads, be sure to used anti-seize or something on the threads. If you don't, PB Blaster (or similar) is your friend!

Axle shafts: Said this before, if you haven't checked your nuts for proper tightness.......do it! Found a couple that were....not exactly tight. May have one u-joint going south, saw just a little play in a cup. Need to check clocking on shaft too. Was 90 degrees out, which I think is ok. Run them at 90 or 180 out, but not anything in between....

Shocks: Pleased to report that the QA1 shocks and springs I used out back are holding up nicely. They have a nice thin coating of road dirt and engine oil/gas film on them that has yellowed the finish a tad....a nice patina! I've told others that I am not a fan of chrome on springs. Great on a hot rod where they are out in the open and you can get to them....not so much on a street car where they are buried. The powdercoated silver is a better surface. It won't rust. Not sure how much chrome polish I want to invest here..... Have cracks to weld!! One good thing is that the ball ends on these shocks seem to be holding up well! Upper on the one shock I removed is just a tad loose, bottom one still feels tight. (Non-lube versions. I think I have 17-18K on them.

Will hope to clean these parts up real quick Tues and take some pictures! Start washing down the grime, and get ready to strip some paint near the cracked area.

Here is something I need feedback on. Not sure if this is a factory modification or an owner mod. Here are pictures of the ladder bar (upper shock mount frame brace/spreader for lack of better description!) and the RH upper mount from car #1134, also getting an engine-dectomy at this time.


Note that it has 4 thru holes for bolts. On mine, you will find only two mounting holes. (See two pics up into days 5/6 to see mine.) Note the inboard holes on the one above, and the absense in my bracket. They correspond with the extra "tube" welded on to the top of the mount as seen in this pic.



Compare this pic above to the 3rd pic of mine, in day 2 way back up top!

I'm gonna guess that all four holes in the ladder bar are not just thru holes, but have inserts welded into them for support. Then it was chromed, similar to mine, but not from the factory. My car is #878 (March-April 69 build-window dates) so did the factory have problems with cracking mounts in late 69??? I do know that much later cars had yet different upper shock mounts that tied into the rear sheetmetal.... Have an old photo somewhere of a Goose that showed up my first year in Vegas. I think it was #1254 or so, and this area of the chassis was markedly different in design!

How many of you have a four bolt ladder design or something different??? Would be nice to know! Perhaps there is a fix or mod that more of us can use?

Here's a shot of mine (8Ma1114). Haven't done anything yet on the car but starting to see what I'm in for!

Mark