Goose 8MA642 Refurb and Repaint

I think this forum could use a post JUST for weatherstripping!    I looked and can't find the pictures I  want to see.....oh wait....maybe I didn't take them!!!  Wish I would have filled about 50 thumb drives with every inch of every component on the car before it went away!   Especially weather strips!

Perhaps a few larger area pics of the "where" you need, and then people can fill in with pic's of their cars.    All my weatherstrip was fairly original, but squished to the point of "what was it originally" remains unknown!  

There was "omega" shaped bulbous type,... sideways bulb...... the little plastic edging already spoken of......regular door opening........

I do know that JC Whitney (Warshawski) has a bunch of sizes of various shapes..... and they were good about sending out samples!

LOOKIN GOOD AT HOME!!!!
Steve

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...for-sale-in-michigan

See this thread, it shows 4 of the 6 weatherstripping I can think of in the engine bay...Esp;

• The wheelwells (March 8 post). see also 8ma1046 pic below.
• across the B header (see march 21, 2019 post), this is what Nate mentions with the stack.
• bulb seal on the edges of the engine covers, see picture below
• on the top edges of the vertical walls (see March 8, 2019 post)
• lower edge of the gullwing doors (see March/10/19 post and 8ma1046 pic)
• on the inner front engine lid (see picture here, 8ma1074)

Let me look thru posts before, for the wheelwells I went with something Maseratinet offers for Ghibli door seals...

(Btw, I'm interested if there is someone who is NOT surprised on the bulb seal on the engine covers!).

Now is also the time to get the blackout paint over the B header and on top of the hinges, see the far-less-beatiful-than-yours gold painted car, that appears to be fully original paint.

And Yes, Nate, the question is not whether you must install the faux chrome trim--its instead whether you want to instead install gold trim (that matches the aged version...). After seeing 8ma1074 with the red/gold, geez, it looks so damn good that I may try it

Hi Lee, great shots!  I could TOTALLY believe 1046's bulkhead seal (shown in pic 2) is the same exact material shown in pic 4.

And assuming the bulb diameter is ~16mm, the same stuff was on 1010...not on the bottom edge of the engine cover - either missing or never fitted there - but running along either side of the engine bay.  Seems like a logical choice for the bulkhead seal too.  Curious what you think?!

Nate, I think its all so close to call that once 2 of us do the same thing, history is re-written and there is a new standard

So, if folks believe 8MA1074 is/was original in this discussion (and others from the past...2014..."Seeking advice regarding the weatherstripping for the Mangusta engine compartment")

-Has anyone installed/updated that faux chrome (weathered to gold) trim on the edges in the engine compartment? I am curious just how that would look.

-The weatherstripping glued to the wings on the sides, where they close on the four latches, makes sense.

-The faux chrome fits on the vertical ridge around the front of the bulkhead where the wings close, and the horizontal ridge around the bulkhead has no weatherstripping attached to it (again makes sense because you'd see when the wings are closed).

-The weatherstripping that best fits the well around the bulkhead where the front of the wings settle is the 16mm (.6") bulb type Nate/Lee discuss above. And like the same weather stripping on the wing edges, this weatherstripping would be glued to the well.

Just edited/corrected yesterday's post for the sake of posterity.  Definite memory fade about 'original' details  Here are a few pics of edge-trim on various cars, including 1076 as Lee mentioned.  Regards, Nate

(Nate, yeah, you have those right for 1074 and 1046. I hadn't seen the 982 and 1144 pics) Here are some more detailed pics from 1046, showing especially rivets to pin down the vinyl--underneath that fracture on 982 is a rivet, I'll bet. But surprising to me, also that its not a single piece across B (see where the piece terminates where it runs into the spin mounting in the center).

I remember M!ke's advice, use a heat gun on the vinyl bends.

I looked for a long time to see if there was any of this trim wider than ~10mm available--but 10mm is right (forgot I deliberately took a picture of this on 8ma1074 when I had the chance). I've only seen some suggestions that Alfa Giulia may have used such a trim, somwhere...but finally just bought generic Chinese stuff on ebay. I think the original Chrome look would fit better on the gold car, but gold colored vinyl edging is available and looks pretty darn close to aged...even, I'm pretty sure you will not find a 50 year old car with "chrome"....!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/19317...pname%3Avlp_homepage

Just my two cents… Look at aluminum extrusions… Easy to form, get them in shape, and get them chromed!

Car is on a 4 post lift and will remain there until I get ready to install the engine (that will be awhile).  Clearly, I need the wheels off for a lot of the work. I have a couple 4500lb rated moveable center trays on the lift. Does it make most sense to have the car resting on the center lower frame cross bar in the rear, and at the base of each of the two vertical frame components in the center front between the wheels? Or, are there better places to have it resting on for an extended period?

You should be fine using the rear xmember- spread load out to catch both cross portions, OR simply go to the frame on either side of that xmember.

Two points up front ahead of the front axle C/L on the frame should be fine also!

That's the way my car lived for a few months during crazy times!!!

PROGRESS!!!!  )))
Steve

Things being what they are, it turns out the instrument panel needed to be pulled to start all the work I want to perform. Lee was most helpful in providing guidance. Some rust needs to be cleaned up as you can see so will probably use por-15 paste.

The brake master has 9M 23 1405995 on the end plate and is connected to a Bonaldi booster. As best I can tell this master cylinder was used on a number of older Ferrari's and appears to have a rebuild kit number 95696966. Anyone familiar with this brake master?

Ferrari used the same booster, and the same appearing master. I’m not sure they were the same diameter.

if you have that much rust inside on the dash structure, you need to remove your windshield because you probably have rust in the bottom corners of the channel/ledge for the glass.

Larry

(...good news, with fresh paint, I assume that the rust here is merely a flesh wound   ). But I'm curious, do the reservoir connections on the master cylinder look correct for early cars? If the "9M" on the MC is a date code, it could be that the arrangement I expected for a Goose MC (using the same MC as Fiat Dino/Fiat130 with inlet and brake outputs all lined on the top).

  Btw, thanks for the pic under the dash--esp interesting to me is the Carello relay (to the right of the Fiamm horn relay). This shows on the wiring diagram and I think is used for "flashing," but it wasn't clear whether this was a US vs. Euro thing--and since '642 appears as a US model (esp, marker lights on the rear) I think the distinction is a 2 vs. 4 headlight thing...)--Lee

OK, if memory serves me properly at the moment...... the M/C 9M is 1969 December assembly.   The 23 means it has a 23mm bore.

(The late date also means that this was likely replaced at some point in time as #642 would have been assembled late 1968 or very early 1969.  Check your window dates.....cast iron dates.... brake caliper dates.....)

Being a 23mm bore, the following will NOT apply!

On 878 the M/C was I believe.... a 21mm bore (unmarked on the end nut!) and used Fiat wheel cylinder "donut seals" for the basic internal seals.    Thankfully my rear wiper seal was in great shape and was able to reuse it.....as it is unknown as to number and where to find?

For 23mm pieces and parts, look to Pantera M/C's and parts sources.   DOT 3 brake fluid causes bad bad things to happen in these cylinders......

The Ferrari thing is true, as is it's usage in other Italian large vehicles of the day.... Maserati comes to mind........

Cheers!
Steve

Thanx for inputs. The painters did take the entire exterior of the car down to bare metal, and repaired numerous rust spots and structural rust. However, they did not pull the instrument panel hence the rust you see in pic behind inst panel. I will figure out how best to address that rust. The POR-15 option has worked for me before, but it will be hard to get to both sides of the rusted locations behind the inst panel and the space below the wipers.

As I mentioned, found a place selling the rebuild kit for the 1405995 brake master. Also found a place that sells a rebuild kit for the "large" bonaldi booster. Will check numbers on bonaldi when I pull it to see if this is a match. There must be more to it than just large or small bonaldi boosters. Will probably just replace clutch master and slave. Based on Steve's comment, what is thinking on best fluid to use these days for brakes and clutch?

The real question I have here is...do I replace all the brake and clutch lines as I will never have as easy access to them as I do now? I have never replaced them since I've owned the car (Spring 2007), and the fluid didn't move much in the lines over the last 9 yrs.

If the thought is to replace the lines, is 3/16" nickel copper the way to go?

CASTROL LMA brake fluid, DOT 4 "For GIRLING" .    Not always at your local AP store....and when I buy it, I get a case of 4-6 gallons, donate the extras to the club raffle....use it in ALL of my vehicles except for M/C!

YES REPLACE ALL OF THE FLEX LINES!   I found my steel "end" fittings clogged with rust because PO's used DOT3 fluids......    If you live in tractor country, it should be no sweat to have new ones made up, in cloth finish, or whippy dippy clear vinyl or colors!   The fittings are SAE being Girling brakes!!!   So most "hose" businesses should have new ones avail.   Match as best you can....fitting lengths could vary slightly.   Some AP stores will make hoses too.......  Amazing how cheap it is to get tractor parts made like this vs "imported sports car" hoses!!!

If you pull  your booster apart, inspect the rubber bits.  They  may be just find to continue using!   Not like they live in an engine compartment subject to all sorts of nasty vapors!!!

Keep on!!!
Steve

Castrol LMA Dot 4 went the way of the dinosaurs unfortunately.   I have been unable to find any castrol Dot 4 in the SoCal area (great availability if I lived in the UK!).  I went to Pentosin Dot 4 which is German and recommended by several.  So far, good results.

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...lle-in-norway?page=2 see recent discussion on the brake booster and where to get parts...soft lines are easy, google GHP71 and pick the parts that come on Morgan...(!)

Steve, btw, have you seen inlets and outlets on Mangusta as this one? I’ve only been in the dash on 2 cars, both later 2 headlight cars…Lee

I believe that they are fairly standard M/C's  supply comes in top and exits side. Top feed pipes were copper.   VW "green" brake hose for connectors to reservoirs.   Steel lines out........

Wow!   Ever have one of them moments where 3 decades goes WHOOSH past the backs of your eyeballs!!!? Feels creepy to say that.....!   I thought I had pictures of my M/C when I sent it out for sleeve job.... blow out pic's and new seals!   ( I have pics of the rear balance valve thingy....that that was WAY after getting the M/C and clutch cyl's back in the car!!!

Well, that was nearly 30 years ago, pre-ish digital cameras! (for my budget anyway!)   I have pic's.....they are just in analog form.....and NO IDEA which pile of pictures they are in.....OK I can actually get within a few feet of them......file cabinet....desk drawer files.....ugh!

Seems like yesterday I was blowing that M/C apart on my work bench!!!  It was one of the first jobs I ever did on my car, other than pouring fresh gas in the tank to start it up for the first time in 13-15 years.....only to see gas running out from under the car across the pavement!!! NO do not turn the switch.........! I guess replacing that rotted out fuel line was first job......ish!

If I run across the photos....will SCAN them in and post....  sheesh!

Got all the reservoirs/hoses, clutch, and brake master/booster removed. No fluid coming from booster so master brake did not leak into it. Will probably go with rebuilding brake master (found a kit), new clutch master (since I don't know what was installed), and new clutch slave. Whatever was used as the clutch master required different spacing on holes in dash. Hard lines look ok...a little blue corrosion to clean off clutch line.

WOW! That's one mess and a half for a clutch master!

See if you can dig up Jim at Orphan Auto (OH?) for a new assy.   He sells these to roundy rounders as clutch and brake cylinders!

EDIT:

HERE IS INFO FOR ORPHAN AUTO- JIM    1-937- 554 - 6 000

This cylinder is described as: " 3/4" Bore, Center Valve, Remote Reservoir"

You will likely need to reuse your original pushrod.   Aprox $75-85 Feb/24

Advise if you need a pic' of what the original should be.......or search the forum.

Original markings on #878 Clutch master: EHEB-7707 and #310680 CC3

Rebuild Kits: Raybestos CMK1936 (1983-88 Jeep Eagle, 84-86 Jeep Truck & Wagon applications)       Girling SP1995/2        MANY Triumph TR2 TR3 TR4.

Specific Seal# 64673407  First replacement part I ever found for my Goose! Popped out of the 3rd box of seals I was looking thru in the auto parts store!  BINGO!!! I'll take it! 1996 or 1997!

JUST IN!!!   While looking for the above seal, which is usually all that needs replacing I found this exact seal in a LUCAS SP1967 kit on eBay for about $15!!!   It has extra parts, like reservoir cap and washer, but barring the ability to get the SP1995/2 kit, this would do the trick for you and it's cheaper and new!

Gotta run!
Steve

PS: I wouldn't mess with the booster, unless your car has over 100k miles on it!      It is a Bendix copy and IIRC it is a bugger job to do for that style.  The "other" Ford style "banded" version is easier to rebuild....but not used in our cars!

...you know, its just great to be halfway there (!) And also good news that the old holes are hard to fill in , replacing with an original clutch master will be easy enough... Good luck on the booster rebuild, the one in 1076 was new, decades ago at least (!) On my Ferrari 400i, I used some guy in Oregon who was pretty affordable...Lee

Here's what I am looking at for clutch master on ebay:

DeTomaso Mangusta 3/4" Bore Center Valve Girling Style Clutch Master Cylinder

That's the one!!!   Good chance it is from Jim.

SEE NOTE A COUPLE OF POSTS UP FOR MORE INFO!!!

"Giring style" means made in China, which all in all are probably a better bet than rebuilding a 50 year old one..! https://www.ebay.com/itm/28560...p;LH_ItemCondition=3

or even $14, free  shipping...geez..!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28524...41PABP2ERNMJQSZ6NZTJ

Got new clutch master coming and slave soon thereafter.

Have Bonaldi Brake Master (#1405996 in casting, and #140595 23mm on large end nut) detached from booster. No fluid in booster so apparently seal was good to master.

Got circlip off end with piston, however, piston didn't want to come out pulling with hand. Does it make sense to put cloth on piston and pull on barrel with pliers to get it out (one plier blade in piston barrel and one outside)? I did have lock bolt in rear input loosened.

Large nut on opposite end from piston wouldn't budge.

Anyway to do it with the air pressure??!!

Will give it a shot.

@muttsjet posted:

Will give it a shot.

Literally…💥

Hmmmm!   Now I don't remember!!!   I am thinking that this all comes out the end with the nut!!!!!

Give me some time to dig up old pictures........

DON'T PULL ON ANYTHING YET!

Look for pic's of blown out Pantera cylinder for clues.  Same or darn similar!!!! 23mm also!

Edit:

OK after thinking about this some more, and unable to locate my old M/C hard copy prints on the computer....ugh.... I believe that the snap ring on the plunger end comes out, and then the large washer which simply exposes the end of the piston. Normally there was a large black rubber seal over the plunger shaft and fit into the recess also, covering the snap ring and big washer....but not retained by anything....but friction.  I don't believe that these seals are available anywhere....

The large nut will be an issue.   You may need to walk it into a machine shop where they can clamp the M/C securely in a proper precision vice, then using a 6 point socket of the proper size and a breaker bar to try and pop it loose.  I don't think there is a rubber o-ring on it....but rather a brass-ish washer......to seal it up.

Heat may be required to heat up the casting to cause it to expand a tad.  You might try that.  A ship may use an inductive heater to warm up only the area you need warmed......   anti-sieze on threads upon assembly!

If your outside temp is in the single digits, you may want to bring the master cylinder indoors and set it next to the fire.......!  Work on it on a warmer day?!

Steve

Well, nut on end would not budge even in vice with breaker bar, so, banged on washer on piston end and it finally broke loose. This brake master is a Bonaldi Benditalia 1405996 (found on casting)/140595 23mm (found on end nut). It was apparently used on 208’s and some 308’s. You can see from the pic it consists of 3-23mm and 1-29mm seals. Found these seals as well as the seal plugs for reservoir lines at Dino Parts in GE.

I guess you could call it a good bang...up job!!!!   Glad you got it apart!!!   Sorry for the bad recall.......!
Cheers!
Steve

Interesting, I had not seen the screw used to limit the rear circuit piston--had only seen this pin before via the rear banjo screw itself.

Switched to suspension/brakes/steering after pulling brake and clutch masters from interior.

Any suggestions for sequence for removing entire front drivers suspension?

Attached pic is of drivers front brake caliper. Has #1266 embossed on it and it consists of 2 large 60+mm/2 3/8" pistons...CR type. At least one of the two pistons appears to be rusted in place (soaking in Kroll oil now). May be able to blow the other out with compressed air.

pic of caliper

Once you get the shock/spring out, it doesn't make much difference how you do it.....no tension.   Pop the ball joints loose from the spindle and remove it first, then the a-arms are easy peasy.  Unless of course something is rusted in place.......!

Easy does it!!!

Lower nylon-ish bushings will likely have some play in them.  Even in new ones.......grease with some sort of synthetic grease...

Upper bushings are Heim joints....and should be tight...... Grease them with a tapered needle bit on your grease gun,  and install new dust booties....

Ball joints should be replaced with more modern cast pieces vs multi-layer steel pieces which were designed to fail.....!

Gettin' there!!!!
Steve

...all the suspension, is, well, pretty much how it looks. I was able to get replacement Nylon bushings for the front from Hall Pantera, the poly bushings in the rear are probably something you will have to make or have made. The heims and their boots are easier than they first look, the instruction to start by threading the Heim via the small hole seems counter-intuitive (but it works! Stick the threads thru the small hole, screw into the insert, and like childbirth somehow the bootie magically stretches as you pull the heim joint into place).

Getting the right ball joints is a long battle, M!ke is the last guy who found a solution...

(btw, fascinating to see the text on the inside of the caliper?!)

I went with the Delphi TC76 ball joints.  It required sanding the casting bumps smooth and putting in the freezer overnight, then heating and greasing the mounting cup...  It's a tight fit, but it works and the parts seem well made and quite solid

MH

That is WAY more work than I remember doing on the similar looking BJ!

There is an upper and a lower for the Fiat 124...... I don't know which one.... but I bought mine from the factory a million years ago and there was no fussing.....

Others have been thru this same search....

We need the ability to "flag" or group/save posts of such significance....???? Websters??? IDeas???

STeve

@mangusta posted:

That is WAY more work than I remember doing on the similar looking BJ!

There is an upper and a lower for the Fiat 124...... I don't know which one.... but I bought mine from the factory a million years ago and there was no fussing.....

Others have been thru this same search....

We need the ability to "flag" or group/save posts of such significance....???? Websters??? IDeas???

STeve

I was told that the correct Fiat one was, IIRC, 40mm and had a tendency to crack...  So they fixed the problem with a 43mm replacement...  The Fiat used a collar instead of a cup for mounting and it didn't matter for them as the collar was larger and the 43mm BJ fit just fine...  But of course DT had to be different...  The gist of the story is that the 40mm BJ's are no longer made...  I suppose if you are very lucky you might find some that have been sitting on a shelf for a few decades, but failing THAT, the Delphi appears to be the closest out there...  and truth be told, it wasn't particularly difficult to get it to fit...  Just used some old school methods and it worked fine.

MH

Am stuck...three quick questions:

- one of the two front caliper pistons (other popped out immediately with compressed air) is now retracked, frozen in place, and will not budge/loosen using compressed air nor using manually trying to turn piston out...any ideas?

- side cap on front caliper also frozen and will not unscrew...a steel bar, inserted in slot with caliper in vice, bent and cap didn't move a mm...any ideas?

- will removing the four bolts (1 in pic) at the base of the wheel hub allow me to remove the brake disc, or do I need to also remove other bolts on the inside of the disc?

Spray with LPS type oil lube....maybe WD40......  Use air pressure, don't pry.  Take the bleeder valve out and check for obstructions. (That would never happen!)  Look down in the hole to see if there is anything in the caliper hole....

That is odd that it pushed in easy and is now stuck.....something simple going on.

Use more air pressure, BUTT BE SURE to put a piece of wood in the caliper to cushion the piston should it suddenly decide to eject itself!  NO FINGERS!!!!....or you'll have less fingers when done......

Use brake lube when reassembling.... DOT 4 for fluid.

I have never heard of anyone getting the giant side screw/cap loose. You'll bugger it up most likely....      No need to remove it.    Pistons "float" in the housing.  Bore can be hand sanded to remove garp but don't need to worry about resleeving them unless REALLY corroded away....(from use of DOT 3 fluid!)

If you need that sort of work.....there is a guy in LA that specializes in Girling stuff.

I believe that the four inner bolts removed will drop the rotor.  BUTT you need to remove the entire assy from the spindle anyway to get the rotor off, which will reveal the truth!

Bearing cap has an o-ring in it, so go easy on getting it out....silicon grease when reassembling!

Go baby go!!!!  Wait! STOP!!! 
Steve

@muttsjet posted:

Am stuck...three quick questions:

- one of the two front caliper pistons (other popped out immediately with compressed air) is now retracked, frozen in place, and will not budge/loosen using compressed air nor using manually trying to turn piston out...any ideas?

- side cap on front caliper also frozen and will not unscrew...a steel bar, inserted in slot with caliper in vice, bent and cap didn't move a mm...any ideas?

- will removing the four bolts (1 in pic) at the base of the wheel hub allow me to remove the brake disc, or do I need to also remove other bolts on the inside of the disc?

I had a piston that wouldn't budge from the caliper no matter how much air pressure I used...  I ended up hooking the brake line back up to it and standing on the pedal...  it finally popped out...  Steve's note to put a piece of wood or something to catch it is worth noting, mine should be approaching the outer atmosphere of Saturn next Tuesday!!

I'm pretty sure those bolts will release the rotor...  BUT, as noted, there is more to to than just getting it loose...

is that a Cobra (AC) in the background?   the mortal enemy of the mongoose!!!

MH

Tap and die jury rig of fittings to block off fluid port and get no pressure loss from 120-140psi compressor and banging cap/sides of caliper for about 2 hrs finally got it to move and explode out.

Yep, 427 side oiler with 4 sets of IDA webers waiting its turn to be worked on. Need to replace clutch which requires engine pull based on its Contemporary Motors frame. Will probably be a while since I am focusing on the Mangusta.

With stuck pistons in calipers that disassemble, I've had good luck by tapping the piston IN a little, then using air or hydraulic force to move it back out, alternating that until the piston finally moves freely. Most sticking is from bore varnish made from water, air & old brake fluid. It removes with hand-held Scotchbrite, not motorized which will machine things and ruin precision parts.

Does this brake piston need replacing? Clearly edge scoring occurred on exposed portion of piston?

Absolute junk. Each pit below the sealing ring will leak. Pits above the seal comes from water retained in old 'protective' boots. Problem is, every known European brake caliper including aluminum Ferrari and Cobras have OEM chrome or nickel plated mild steel pistons.  Check them- they're all strongly magnetic & very hard. Water adsorbed in old brake fluid penetrates the plating and rust-pits like an old bumper.

U.S calipers- OEMS, Wildwood etc) have long used stainless steel pistons (since at least 1967) and that's what we're used to. Unless the brake fluid is decades old, one doesn't get pitting with U.S calipers.  Stripping old steel pistons, building up the pits, regrinding  and re-plating is cost prohibitive. New pistons are reportedly available for most Girlings but I don't know if they're stainless.

Unless these are super duper special calipers......no boots atall.  This is one of the worst I've seen!

I've posted the below previously:

Does this one need replacement as well?

If it was me, I'd replace it only because there are a couple of scratches seen.  You would need to measure from the bottom of the caliper bore to the top of the rubber retracter  area and compare how that sits on the piston...how much if any damage is covered. If the damage gets into this area, then safer to simply replace.

WHOA NELLY!!!!

Steve

A quick Google search netted the following for CR pistons+....

https://crosthwaiteandgardiner...-caliper-stainless-4

https://www.race-parts.com/gir...teel-caliper-pistons

C & G also list seals and misc parts that you may need as well, pad retainers.....

Prices are not toooo bad!

Steve

Thanx everyone for inputs. Tempted to just replace all the cylinders and seals as well as wheel bearings all around since I am there.

Steve, my internet search coughed up the same two sites. Don't have the rear wheels off yet, but looks like I have Girling "ORA" calipers on the rear given they look like the fronts, but measures smaller dimensions.

...no cylinders(!) but not a bad thought.

The rear cylinders should be 1.75" pistons, similar in execution....no dust shields!     Soooooo, I wouldn't order anything until you get the rears popped apart too.

I had the "other" rear cast iron 3 pot calipers on my car.  In 1996 or so, it cost me about $300 for a tiny bag of retractors/seals, 4 small pistons (2 sizes used in each) some ebrake pads..... Needless to say I was GLAD to get them for any price!

You should also look closely at your flexible lines/hoses.    With likely use of DOT3 fluid, the portion of the hose fitting that fits inside the hose can get rusted and clogged up.   Before I could find hoses or have them made, I simply cheated and cleaned out the garp with a drill bit......there was MUCHO plugging going on!

If you live anywhere near a tractor dealer...farm country, most of these shops can custom make hoses to fit.   SAE/British threads etc on the calipers and hoses in my experience.  I had a "hose shop" here in Silicon Valley make them up in minutes for around $35-40 per hose....pressure tested to boot!

I REALLY appreciated the security of knowing all was good and new in the braking system!

One last piece......yah right(!!!!)....the proportioning valve (By Bonaldi) that you may have on your chassis RH of the oil pan.  I forget the actual name of the thing....prop valve, pressure amplifier....glorified splitter.....   I could not get my original apart....no matter how much I messed with it. Thankfully, I had purchased the last piece that DeTomaso had in stock, again in 1996-7.     I have since seen these things offered up new on the internet!!!    

Internally there is a spring and piston....(to modulate pressure???)....mine was more like a solid piece of metal....surprised it even worked......   Some cars did not use this but rather a simple "T" to direct flow to R and L side of car.

I believe Porterfield can get you good "street" pads for these calipers.  Now parking pads are available all over the place.   Similar brake mechanism used in Fiat/Alpha and other Italian steeds!  British cars.......... You may need to exchange the parking pad bases.....so don't trash them!

I'm guessing about $800-900 for your brake job in total (providing you don't need M/C, or booster, or compensator replacements!).  For these cars, that's pretty cheap IMHO!!!! Gotta love it!!!!

Bearings:   Cheapest parts you will almost ever replace on the Mangusta!!!!   Standard Ford items from around 1968-1970.  Maybe earlier..... You'll find numbers on the races.....easy peasy!!!

Cheers!!! Steve

Only pic I could find in short order of the brake "valve" thingy....new one...had to splice the inlet line for some reason......

"Compensator" is the term used for this thing....

MPN: 67226  New search on this number (or the other from below) and from Lee A in 2016 (AND some brake M/C replacement info!).

LeeA wrote: But also, still available, even new part 003204375 ("compensator"). Available at Euro spares for $1k but also available (for the moment, on Ebay france) for half that.

- Brake Master cylinder appears to be from a Fiat 130...but priced for the Dino (Fiat and Ferrari) 246...actually, not crazy expensive, about $300 from several sources (I ordered from OKP, hope it works).

Steve

deal of the day on 60mm pistons, good news is also that stainless versions are so available  https://www.ebay.com/itm/14358...c:g:soMAAOSwpEBc0Igt

see March 16, 2022 update on "the compensator"   https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...ngine-rebuild?page=2

(ok, if you are bargain hunting, here is even cheaper...crazy, giveaway, please take them cheap... https://www.etypeparts.com/643...ston-gb48668-19-1150 )

Bolt and nut at heim on tierod won't budge and neither will bolt on tie rod connecting to wheel. Any suggestions? Carefully used a sledge and wrench but no go

Did you try one of those? Had success occasionally… soaking in Diesel with a brush… put puller on as hard as possible and let it sit overnight… maybe you’ll have a surprise in the morning…

(make sure you put grease on the threads of the tool)

Many auto parts store have a tool loaner or rental program.  O'reillys has one ...  You basically pay for the tool and get the $$$ refunded when you return it.   Usually commercial grade tools...

MH

For Heim nut and bolt.....try soaking with PB Blaster (rust loosener....) and then the longest 6 point wrenches you have or sockets and ratchet handles/breaker bars.   Watch the knuckles!!!!

For the tie rod end, soak with some PB Blaster, or I guess the suggested diesel fuel, then use tried and trued double hammer thing.....   LARGE hammer held on one side (or large mass of steel something or other) and BIG hammer on other side to apply sharp blows to the tie rod end.....  Shock should loosen this tapered fitting.....sometimes it takes several hammer strikes.

But it is important to back up the spindle with another large hammer or maul.....just wailing on it with a single hammer won't likely do any good.....other than deforming metal....!

Hammer on!!!!
Steve

On my Pantera I had one ball joint that didn’t cooperate and I had to take the whole assembly out… with A-arms to be able to give it the proper 2 Hammer treatment… sometimes there is just not enough room to inflict the shock that is needed for it to let loose… ☹️

Yeah, nothing that a torch can't help...And good news, everything from the upper ball joint and down is findable. Even the stub axles are available (Fiat 125/1300). 

Lee!  BAD NEWS.....is that the steering arm that you'd be wanging on and heating is NOT readily available.   IIRC, it is a common part......but uncommonly modified by DeT dudes.........rebent to fit car.

Somewhere in a post(?), the 1300 arm (or whatever it is) as stock is shown next to the Goose modified piece...... Not the same!

Just watch out for good paint!!!
Cheers!
Steve

FWIW, I tried everything to remove the tie rod from one of my spindles and eventually gave up using the normal processes--puller, PB Blaster, heat, BIG hammer, more heat, combination of all the above, etc. So, I cut off the tie rod (that metal is HARD) close to the spindle and started drilling and grinding as centered and as carefully as I could, using only the hand tools I had available. I worked on it a little at a time that winter until there was only a thin layer of tie rod left that I could finally remove. You can see the galling that took place before my time and probably kept the tie rod from being easily removed, I'm guessing. I don't think those hammer marks are mine, but they could be. It's been a while...

Those marks were not from a hammer. Most likely they are from some kind of pry-bar or remover jaws digging in. They are in a non-critical area so just run a file over them to take off finger-slicers on the edges. After nearly 60 years, the thing was really set in there! Congratulations!
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FWIW, I tried everything to remove the tie rod from one of my spindles and eventually gave up using the normal processes--puller, PB Blaster, heat, BIG hammer, more heat, combination of all the above, etc. So, I cut off the tie rod (that metal is HARD) close to the spindle and started drilling and grinding as centered and as carefully as I could, using only the hand tools I had available. I worked on it a little at a time that winter until there was only a thin layer of tie rod left that I could finally remove. You can see the galling that took place before my time and probably kept the tie rod from being easily removed, I'm guessing. I don't think those hammer marks are mine, but they could be. It's been a while...


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Finally got tierod heim end disconnected with 2.5 ft braker bar. Still messing with getting tierod joint separated...

Removing upper a-arm nut closest to driver...looks like even if I could get it off that putting it back on will be major pain...is my assessment about right?

WOW!!!  There is nothing on this car that should be "that tight" except for a big nut or two inside of the ZF!!!  That's some serious metal bonding!   I think the thing to do is hit anything you are looking at taking apart, and hitting it with PB Blaster a few times and work on something else for a week!!!

That upper a-arm nut is tricky.   Isn't that where the long shaft goes from side to side?  ....or am I thinking rear upright....... Are there holes in foot wells????   CRS today....been working on insulating shop and it's 80 degrees+ up there....can you say sweatball!!!?

I have very few pictures of this stuff to share....pre-digital camera for me! ...still trying to develop the practice of taking pictures with my iCamera......!  Crazy!

One bolt at a time!!!
Steve 

Living and learning...probably would have been a lot easier to get right front apart if I'd done it while still attached to car. However, given where I am, the wheel hub/steering knuckle/assembly in picture spins freely with no grinding, no noise, and no 'wooblyness'...should I still pull apart and change bearing? If so, should I just wait until after I reassemble until right front? The two nuts on the inside of wheel hub are being pretty stubborn as are the 4 bolts on the outside of the hub.

Have gone thru parts in parts manual and on forum. Does this look about right?

Tie rod ends - 2x4117875 (an easy $10 replacement appears to be a Delphi TA650...anybody used this?)

Ball joints - 4x5882118 (best suitable sub?)

sway bar bushing - 2x4084841 (best suitable sub?)

rubber stabilizer support bushings drv/pass (60020036/60020037) - ???

rubber mounting for shocks 60000020) - ???

rubber buffer for shocks (60020033) - ???

Since you have it this far, I'd at least pop the bearings out and see what they look like for wear. Could be just fine!   Clean, add new grease and reassemble.

As for taking the rest of the bits off.....unless you are replacing the rotor, it would seem like your fasteners are still doing their job!   Impact tools are likely in order................gently!!!!   Machinist on standby!!

Ball joints: Do a search on this site for references of good "no mod's required" pieces. I know I've seen the posts.....and guys have found the good ones....and they reference the "where" they go on the other cars that use them.  I just can't recall and didn't write it in my parts book! Duh!    Goose uses same joint upper and lower according to my notes.

Sway bar bushings....    Try search also.   But I think whatever you can find in the aftermarket for the size bar you have may need to do..... Could be a Fiat/Alpha part......??   (Book page 7 lists it as FIat 1300 pieces)

Sway bar end link bushings: Sleeved rubber bushings similar to shock bushings. If what you have is still good.....be happy!!!   Hunt for steel sleeved bushings could be unicorns....but I know guys have found such bushings......in the size you need???  Your mileage may vary.   Slim chance the vendors like Wilkensen and perhaps Stock at PCC could have them...

Shock bushings: There are some new ones floating around out there but they are crap. Soft gummy rubber that the steel insert pushes right thru and in 6 months they look as bad as what you probably already have!    These are steel sleeved versions.....    Again, search on this item as a topic as guys have cut new ones out of more modern stiffer rubber and pushed them into place.

Shock damper:   Carello sells some....I cut in half...used small section...other shock providers likely do as well.

I was lucky as  my car didn't need everything here.....shock bushings were worst...had metal on metal!  Of course shocks were toast also! Different subject.....

Search on grasshopper!!!   You're getting there!
Steve

Thanx Steve...to get to the wheel bearings, due I just need to remove hub? To do so, do I take out the 4 bolts on the outside at the base of the hub and the circlip?

Behind the BIG snap ring and aluminum dust cover you will find wheel bearings and retention nut(s).

it is special!!!!!     Similar to Pantera in that the nut is swedged in place and you will need to unswedge it with nail or small punch!    Could even be a LH THREAD on one side…..CRS here!   FIAT nuts…..

once nut is off rotor and hub slide right off!

be careful of the hub and area around dust cap!    It is aluminum and can get forked up very easily….so exercise more patience and caution!!!!!

Steve

So, if I understand you correctly, if I get the nut off under the aluminum cover, and given the two pics of the brake disc/wheel/hub assembly above, I do not need to remove any other nuts and bolts from the brake disc/wheel/hub assembly to get to the bearings? Basically the hub attached to the brake disc will just slide off?

Yup!

Hopefully that simple!    Nut can be a pisser.....go easy!

Steve

Fiat 500, Fiat 850

left or right hand threaded (nut would tighten in the direction the wheel turns)

So Lee!  You are now a bonafide importer/seller/reseller of foreign nuts???  

Noteable is the "markings" on the LH nuts to help mechanics know what the dealio is on them for proper removal/tightening!!!

S

Thanx, continuing to work nuts on hub. They are incredibly tight.

Of course the ball joints I ordered are 1.5mm to wide in diameter. Tie rods were ok.

I can only say to search this website for the info on BJ's that fit properly.  You do not want to be turning down castings or hogging out cavities that are already thin to begin with!    They have got to be out there somewhere......!

Those nuts shouldn't be tight, but because they are staked (they are staked right?) you need to unstake them before they will come loose easily. So what you have is a lock nut on the tapered(?) outside of the nut......holding it in position.  Post pictures! 

When you tighten the nut the first time, you only putting perhaps 10ftlbs of torque on them IF even that much. I'd need to dig up the torque specs for a 68-69 Mustang/Cougar to see what this needs to be.   It isn't much!!!!

Steve

PS I drilled my spindles for cotter pins and immediately discovered that getting to the pins in the recess of the hubs, was a big PITA!   Putting a slight curve in the pins helped installation.......but that's about it! Sorry no pic's.....dark ages before digital.......!

https://www.fiatplus.com/FRONT...-0005882118N-127388/
ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT, & TO FIT 40 MM A ARM CUPS AS ON EARLY MANGUSTAS, USE 5880297. SOME FOLKS USE THE 124 UPPER BALL JOINT 5880296 ON EARLY MANGUSTAS...

I think last time M!ke checked, he was out…but at least a start--Lee

https://www.ebay.com/itm/19619...Z378DXK2HTHAP0077K5D

Thanx  much...will continue to look.

Here are the ones that went back in my car…my guess, if you can’t get the seller to measure that they are 39.9mm or less in diameter—is to pick the type with ‘single piece bottom case…” Lee

AHAH!!!   FINALLY, I ran across an old folder of low res GOose pictures that I have never managed to find let alone re-file......as there are ball joint photos!!!   And more!Original style ball joint. Upper plate cracks and turns stud loose on the public! Avoid this style if at all possible....or buy spares....and life insurance policy...up your collision coverage too......!

Newer style cast all in one. Mystery part number??????

Upper A-arm all ready to go back on.

Improved style A-arm with reinforcement over the ball joint cup and all the way down the length of the arm. Material is "U-shaped" and "stitch-ish" welded...not solid beads.

Proper "needle" style fitting for grease guns and UniBal joints!

I know this doesn't help find the ball joints.......keep diggin!  Scour the earth for niche Fiat businesses!
Steve

The Fiat style joint for the 1100-2300 listed in Ebay UK item #115683332101 that Lee posted looks perhaps to be the best candidate yet????

I would ping the seller to get the dimension/diameter of that lower casting piece that fits into the Goose a-arm........run to the bank from there.....if need be????

There were some other candidates.....many listed as lower for other cars.....that looked interesting.  Again, I was looking only at the "one piece" castings and not the stamped multi layer steel versions.......

Steve

Ran across this picture of my car at a PCNC tech session, preparing for Vegas POCA show  I believe.  It sez 2006 but I wonder about that.....seems like it should have been earlier......brain fade! But figured you'd enjoy the story....

What started out as a "look see" as to why my front tires were wearing oddly....new tires......and turned into a full on "ball joint" fest......  I had to have my son dig out my 4 new ball joints from my parts stash in my garage about 15 miles up the road, THEN convince my wife that she needed to joint the party and bring them down......that was easy.....the convincing thing....! 

Note the old Koni and original spring.  If I didn't replace all 4 front joints that day, I most certainly did the job shortly after!!!  ....and got it realigned!

Seems like I worked on everything on the car....at a low altitude at these tech sessions......power windows.....ZF......shocks....

Cheers!!!
Steve

...maybe Lancia Fulvia is not a bad start--at least, I remember all other A-arms (for the fiats here) were stamped steel--so no critical fit....but I see the Lancia Fulvia has something of a cup on an a-arm made of tube...

That looks like yours

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165872607320

...and the miracle, he has 6 of them. As I can tell, the ones that should seem to fit come in ones or twos...looks like a winner.

If these are the "sandwich type" with the steel top piece that busts out before you have 30K miles on the car.....I'd keep looking.......!

IMHO,

Ciao!
Steve

Sorry, I was looking for a replacement that looks like the original…

I guess it may be me that is over thinking this...... Ultimately it's up to the owner to decide what and how to build his car.     I forget that the looks of something can mean a lot....I should know that as I sell parts for other vehicles based on the fact that they are and look like the proper parts!

I drove my car a lot......(miss it a lot....) and when pieces fell out of the a-arm when I removed them  (both sides!), I was shocked!   It was literally one good bump away from who know what kind of a "hold my beer" moment.  But seriously, it was bad enough that the early cars were known for simply busting the ends of the a-arms off completely!  Hence the two-three different revisions as time went on! To have the ball joints self destruct doesn't give me a feeling of confidence. I guess that was the cautious safety inclined me.

But today, as the values of these cars has skyrocketed, I can understand where actual original parts have a place in a car that will likely only see road duty on and off of a truck/trailer and around the grounds of a car show.

Carry on!

Kind regards,

Steve

@mangusta posted:

I guess it may be me that is over thinking this...... But today, as the values of these cars has skyrocketed, I can understand where actual original parts have a place in a car that will likely only see road duty on and off of a truck/trailer and around the grounds of a car show.

Carry on!

Kind regards,

Steve

very true… and while the owners try to preserve the value of the car -  at the same time they’re killing the car by not driving it!!

my car did 80 miles in 10 years. I had to replace or overhaul everything front to rear.

you don’t use it - you lose it!

Regarding the BJ .. I had some time to kill waiting… so I thought I help searching.. getting pretty good at it if I may say so (lots of practice with weird cars)

Thanx for data on ball joints. Have first set I ordered on ebay, and am waiting for second set to arrive.

Out of curiosity, if I am actually able to get the 4 bolts out of the hub and then am able to separate the hub from disc, how hard can I expect it to be it be to get the inner/outer bearings and seals out? Will the two seals be easy to find? Looks like the bearings are available after going through forum.

Once you get those nuts off of the spindle, all will be easier than if you don't!! 

Seal number: 4117608   Fiat 1300 and many many many more.   This too is info found on this site!   Hello Moderator!  We need stickies!!!

Cheers!
Steve

Ordered the following parts from Spareto in Estonia and they fit:

Ball Joints - TRW JBJ306 (FYI...4 ball joints for total of $40.72...shipping was additional $37.81)

Tie rod end - Delphi TA650 (FYI earlier order...2 tie rod ends for total of 10.12 Euros; clutch slave for 9.26 euros; 2 of the steering rack gaiters for total of 4.30 euros; 4 of the wrong ball joints (Delphi )TC76 for 27.96 euros...shipping for all was 39.64 euros...on this order forget to select $ for payment)

Have now ordered from them three times with zero issues.  I ordered the TRW ball joints from them on 21 May and then added a hard to find relay for different car on 22 May. I received this order at noon today via DHL.

wrt to hub on disc again...have been looking at this hub/disc topic online. If I can get those 4 bolts out of hub holding it to disc, online shows quite a few nightmares about getting hub off disc. Are mechanics such on the Goose that this issue will not occur between spindle, disc, and hub?

When "staking" end of spindle as discussed earlier, attached pic looks like previous folks doing wheel bearing replacement simply "squeezed nut" to fill indents on bolt end of spindle vs using a cotter pin. Not having done a wheel bearing job before, is this an acceptable approach or should a cotter pin always be used?

MJ,

You are looking at state of the art Italian technology here!!!!! 

No cotter pins required or used or have the provision for it.....only new nuts......  Use a nail to release the nuts from the spindle....watch out for the threads......

I used cotter pins only because I drilled holes in my spindles....gonna save the world......!  Did not take into account how deeply hidden the holes would be in the hub!!!  Had to pre-curve or arc the pins in order to get them in and out easily.........

Order extra nuts....they are cheap.......   See LeeA, he's the nut dealer! )))

Steve

Thanx...searched the forum and found these various numbers for the wheel bearing job so they are all in one place:

front wheel bearings Timken LM67048, LM67010, LM11949, LM11910

Front seals 4117608 (??? how many)

Front nuts 14044871 (right front), 14044171 (left front)

Since I haven't gotten the hub off yet, not sure just how the bearings and seals (or how many seals there are) are arranged in Hub. Was able to get three of four of the hub bolts out, with one being stubborn, and am soaking the last bolt longer in kroil oil. Lot of rust on those bolts, glad they didn't snap off. Was able to create a solid base to brace hub by putting for nuts on the lug bolts, turning the hub upside down in a vice tightened to the 4 nuts on the lug bolts, and then unbolted the bolts holding the hub.

Ended up drilling out fourth hub bolt and knocked off head...will address remnants left in disc on thread when I get hub and spindle/disc separated. With that in mind, for the front left spindle, does the nut turn clockwise to tighten/counterclockwise to loosen? or is it a reverse nut?

Also, given hub nut pic above, managed bend screwdrivers try to push out the crushed part to no avail. Is best way to cut the crushed part with a chisel?

NAIL!!!

No chisels, no screwdrivers.......  maybe, perhaps, possibly use a skinny center punch to push out the staked material.  DO NOT deform the grooves and threads.....you'll hate life....or you'll need a LH thread reforming tool!

I forget which side is LH..... look closely at any exposed threads and read them.

Also NUT may have stake marks on all 6 points indicating it is LH.....

See Lee's pic that he posted a few posts back for the difference!!!

Steve

Yes, one side of the stub axle big nut is reversed thread! Look closely at the left side stub axle threads...amazing how much easier it is to remove the nut when you think righty-loosy lefty-tighty...

 

As it turns out, I don't think I needed to spend the inordinate amount of time getting disc off hub unless I am missing something.  Anyway, three of the four bolts came out and the fourth will require getting the rest of the drilled out bolt out and then making sure threads are still good.

Got spindle nut off using a variety of tools to push out the two crushed portions of the nut. The nut was a normal clockwise to tighten, counterclockwise to loosen.

Now that I got it off, please tell me just what I have. In the outboard pics looks like the nut attached directly to the bearing component and I could easily remove bearing by just pulling it out. Was there supposed to be some sort of seal?  Inside the top was the female portion the bearing sat in. How do I remove that component? Are these components Timken LM67048, LM67010? Where is seal 4117608?

Inboard pic is back of disc. Nothing came out of the back like the front side. I assume the ring at the top must be the seal. How best to remove? Inside the inboard part of the hub, I didn't feel the same male and female Timken parts like I did on the outboard. Can I assume once the seal (4117608??) is removed I'll find the the male and female bearing components just like on the front? Are those parts Timken LM11949, LM11910.

I've scene online how to pack bearings. Got it. How about the inside of the hub? Do I fill it with bearing grease completely before reinstalling on spindle?

Have read various versions of this on the forum, but when reinstalling, the hub/disc goes back on the spindle and the nut goes tightens onto the spindle. What  is the best technique for tightening and torquing the spindle nut? what are the various torques applied during tightening process and what is the final torque on the nut before putting the cap back on?

Thanks for the assistance. Never done this before.

Knocking out the bearing races is rather easy but it takes some finesse to install the new parts without damaging… same holds true for the rear seal…

in your case, I would probably suggest to go to a Automotive shop and let them change the races, give them the inner bearing may be packed and pop the rear seal in as well..

You probably may be able to watch and wait for it…

I personally like to use a press to install… it is doable to take the old race or/and a socket and a hammer…

whatever you choose… always support the hub do NOT use the studs to support the hub!!!!!

OK you are correct about your statement of disc/hub.

Your bearings did have "no lack of grease"!!    Good thing, but better to be safe than sorry!    We were on a tour in France with a guy that had just bought a "fully restored" Pantera.....that suddenly locked up a front wheel.....upon some roadside mechanical work we discovered NO GREASE in the wheel bearing!   Car was towed to nearby shop for further work.     I suggested that they check the other side just to be safe.......  Yup, NO GREASE there either!!!

SO, you've got grease.     There must have been a seal some where in all that grease.....clean things up a bit and look at the bearings and races for blueing or wear streaks......odd wear.......   The bearings and races could actually be in very good condition! 

Your bearing/race numbers will be stamped or etched on the inner races of the bearing and the outer side of the races.     If you are doing it by hand, as set of bearing "pushers" comes in handy....... or a brass drift/punch of sorts.....   Softer material prevents damage to the races......      You WALK them out if using a drift....a little at a time.....you don't want to damage that aluminum carrier.  Otherwise a bearing puller or similar on a press to pull/push them straight out is best.

Grease on!!!
Steve

Got components (all inline with corresponding parts manual page) completely apart with the exception of the two races and inner spacer. Will use Steve's technique on races. How best to get inner spacer sitting on inner race out?

Also, although it appears to create a good seal, does rubber o-ring around hub need to be replaced?

That rear (inner) race looks really nice as does the outer one!   I don't think I would mess with trying to take them out!  You risk damaging the hub.

I don't recall what I had to do to take out the spacer.  It isn't much of a piece and it may have simply come out with the race when I pushed it out.

You mention o-ring....do you mean seals?    (I don't recall an o-ring....but I'm old and it is excusable to do so!)  

Since you have the seals (?) put the new ones in....with a little grease on the lip.  Pack some extra grease in the middle of the hub but do not pack it fulllllll!  It needs room to expand a little.  It will level out.

I can't tell real good about that outer race from the pic, but it looks like no boogers and an even contact pattern consistent with the portion that doesn't come in contact with the bearings.....not a lot of mileage on them!

In my case, the synthetic wheel grease that I used failed me......so I only go with the Molybdenum filled "Ford wheel bearing grease" from o'Reilly's for all of my wheel bearings.      I know that there are some synthetics that are really really good.....I  just haven't come across them yet....

Steve

Got outer race pounded out without any problems or damage...inner race not so much...due to the shape of the hubs inside cone shape, cannot get my drift to sit on what appears to be a much smaller lip on the inner race than was available for pounding on outer race...any tricks to getting the inner race out (I am assuming the spacer will come out once the race moves it)...would this cheap 3 jaw bearing puller from amazon work?

https://www.amazon.com/OFBAND-...ps%2C394&sr=8-11

The three jaw sounds like over kill.......  A set of bearing mandrels could be in order....but a crap shoot there also to get the exact size you need!   IF you have a metal lathe you could cut one to size or simply make one.......  Goose tool #241......

Either a finer tipped punch (gently grind your old buggered up punch flat (if not already!) on a fine grinding wheel!)...go easy on it tapping it out..... OR just haul your two hubs down to a machine shop and see if they have a set of mandrels that will fit inside the hub directly on the small race sticking out....and they can then press them out.

It's always something......!
Steve

For 14 bucks for no fuss, home delivery tomorrow, and knowing I'm going to need the same thing on the other wheels, this puller will be part of my "frustration reduction act". And, unlike the "inflation reduction act", bet it'll work!

At least only you are frustrated… high Inflation is worldwide!!!

Absolutely correct! Hope that's true. Car rebuild, heavy mnx frustration, I wouldn't wish on anyone. However, feel fortunate to be able to have that frustration!

@muttsjet posted:

Absolutely correct! Hope that's true. Car rebuild, heavy mnx frustration, I wouldn't wish on anyone. However, feel fortunate to be able to have that frustration!

I’m fighting my electric for 2 weeks now.. it’s just 😵‍💫🤯😳

And they call this a "hobby" !!!

@panterapatt posted:

And they call this a "hobby" !!!

The rewards will be tremendous ‼️

Here we go

"Frustration Reduction Act" only worked at 30% level. 3 jaw puller could not attach to bottom of inner race, amount of lip showing minimal... will use on other outer races...amazingly, the 44mm bushing driver I used from the Bearing Race and Seal Bushing Driver Install Set to install the outer race fit the top of the race perfectly but the angle of the recessed portion did not match the race...could have ground it to fit but then it would have been rough insert against race...turned it upside down centered race and pounded it in just fine.

Did you try warming the aluminum hub to around 375F ?
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"Frustration Reduction Act" only worked at 30% level. 3 jaw puller could not attach to bottom of inner race, amount of lip showing minimal... will use on other outer races...amazingly, the 44mm bushing driver I used from the Bearing Race and Seal Bushing Driver Install Set to install the outer race fit the top of the race perfectly but the angle of the recessed portion did not match the race...could have ground it to fit but then it would have been rough insert against race...turned it upside down centered race and pounded it in just fine.

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Got a freezer you can put it in over night?   Perhaps some mild thermal expansion/contraction will help... 

MH

Can someone help us keep the players straight?

Muttsjet - 8MA0642  Car Done?

Lee - 8MA???? Car Done?

Mike - 8MA???? Car Done?

Maugusta - 8MA????  Car Done & Sold?

Thanks…. Hard to keep straight, but I know this thread is for you, and not me…

Rocky

8MA642 - back from paint after 9 years and totally stripped down...right now, as first part of project, replacing/rebuilding all clutch/brake/[suspension at least in the front for now] components and installing new lines...am working my way front to back...multiyear project

@rocky posted:

Can someone help us keep the players straight?

Muttsjet - 8MA0642  Car Done?

Lee - 8MA???? Car Done?

Mike - 8MA???? Car Done?

Maugusta - 8MA????  Car Done & Sold?

Thanks…. Hard to keep straight, but I know this thread is for you, and not me…

Rocky

8MA-596

Switching from injection to Weber's. Easy right? Well, life got in the way and I probably can't touch the car for the next 6 months. When I do get back to it, probably have 3 months of work to do. Otherwise the car is in decent shape.

M!ke >>>  8MA898

Red/Black int.

STILL in paint shop, meeting with them tomorrow...  Engine/Suspension/Mechanical restoration (hopefully) finished.  Interior in presentable condition, but it's also on the list.

MH

This is the most popular Mangusta thread AFAIK!

Thanks for the intros!

lee: 8ma1076...painted before covid and me in a half world away with a single visit to the US since. Determined to finish this decade.

   8ma1046 was in the family for a moment.

Ready to reassemble drivers suspension and steering. Can someone confirm best grease to use for steering and how much to put inside gaiter? What is the grease gun attachment called to put grease in heim fitting or should I just get the small grease gun for filling heims mentioned in another thread? Confirm RERS 5 is the correct rubber covering for the front steering heims?

My generic grease gun came with a needle fitting that worked perfect on the Heim joints...  Took a few tries to get it down, but simple enough...

Why are you using chassis grease in your steering? Cam Gears Ltd who built the rack said to use 80W90 gear oil in your gear-driven steering and so does your Owners Manual.

@bosswrench posted:

Why are you using chassis grease in your steering? Cam Gears Ltd who built the rack said to use 80W90 gear oil in your gear-driven steering and so does your Owners Manual.

He may have just been referring to the Heim joints for the steering

I don't recall finding any grease in my gear box.........only grease!

Can't imagine the mess that 80-90W would leave on the floor.....those gators are not liquid tight.......

Grease fitting for Heim's was a "needle point" IIRC!   I posted it and a picture, elsewhere in one of my long winded threads!!!

Steve

   If you cannot get the original Italian stuff, the owners manual calls out precisely the use of "MOBILEGREASE SPECIAL" for the front bearings and steering rack...Another fine substitute is whatever you have (!).

  So whatever cool stuff PepBoys is selling for wheel bearings, just make sure the heim is cleaned of all old tarnish and then spend some Spa time working the new grease around the joint. I think there is really no point in overpacking inside the boot, work enough to cover the bearing and avoid a grease aquarium.

   Getting the boots over the heims is super simple. Finish by inserting the alignment spaces and voila, good for another 50 years.

I REALLY like the Ford Mercury Wheel bearing grease with molybdenum in it.....

Works well with the very same wheel bearings as the Goose, in all of my other Ford products!!!
Steve

@leea posted:

      Getting the boots over the heims is super simple. Finish by inserting the alignment spaces and voila, good for another 50 years.

I used a heat gun on the Heim boots to soften them up...  Didn't take long...  The boots went from a matt finish to shiny when heated, then slipped right on...   

I agree with Lee that choice of grease inside the rack may not be that critical...  The steering shaft isn't exactly spinning at high rpm and heat build up is probably not a concern...  Just keep it lubed with SOMETHING and you should be fine...  (In my opinion ~ FWIW)

MH

I think on page 18 of the owners manual, it says to replace the grease when the rubber boot crystallizes to plastic and then breaks open....see even older comments on this from smart guys who wondered why DeT used just half a boot (!) But yeah, its hardly as if there is going to be a lot of rotation inside the heim.

The best picture I can give on installation of the boot is attached, the sequence is;

- put the Heim threads thru the small hole.

-take the rod you'll attach it to, scrunch the rubber up enough to catch the thread.

- make a big pull. Rubber is magic.

Back to work after some elderly parental issues...

So, steering rack heim off and regreased with grease gun. Have heim boots and special pliers to get heim boot on.

Am curious, since my jam nut is welded to the large circular metal disc, and I had to remove this jam nut combo from the heim joint to get the jam nut combo into the end of the boot (heim would not fit thru small opening on boot end), is it hit and miss to get it all reinstalled to same location?

I did take some measurements before I disassembled the heim to jam nut/metal disc combo: given the placement of the jam nut combo on the heim joint thread, it took exactly 18 full turns of the heim/jam nut combo to get it off...the distance between the outer edge of the jam nut and bottom of inside edge of the heim body was 16mm...the distance between the inside edge of the jam nut and outside edge of the heim body was 56mm.

Put it back to your measurements and you'll be fine!!!!

Gettin' there!!!!   Steve

Getting there! Need to find a new M12x1.75 locknut, get bearings repacked/ assembled/installed, reassemble and reinstall brake, and then done with chapter 1.

Torques ... used 12ftlb for each of the nuts and bolts holding ball joints to a-arms...sound right? used 60ftlbs for lock nuts attaching ball joints to spindle...sound right?

Reinstall repacked wheel bearings/hub...what is final torque on hub lock nut? Do either of the approaches below sound about right?

...

....as for the wheel bearings....

The Ferrari procedure speaks some truth, but final torque is WAY wrong...   Since you are using "Mustang/Ford" wheel bearings..... I'd go with that procedure in the Ford books as well!

Pantera procedure is close to what you want to do......butt IMHO way too much subjective feel....and GOING AMISS!

Mutt....... you should really go in and just delete those references in your post. Wouldn't want to mislead anyone....Ferrari or otherwise!

BELOW EDITED 8/14/2024 1PM PST

The initial torque tighten 17-25FTLBS WHILE SPINNING THE ROTOR to seat the bearings.  Loosen 1/2 turn retighten 10-15 INCH LBS while again spinning...  This amounts to pretty much "thumb tight!"  Use that new HF inch lb torque wrench rotting in the bottom of your tool box drawer!!!

These are tapered bearings, so they can handle a little preload.  12FT LBs IS TOO HEAVY!!!  Would likely burn up the bearings in short order!!!!  Don't need that!!!

Wrench on!!!!
Steve

Picture attached from 1970 Ford Shop Manual- Mustangs Cougars etc.

Thanx much...replacing bolts attaching hub to rotor since I have old bolts out...per various torque spec sources, plan on using 31 ft lb of torque since bolts are M8-1.25 grade 12.9...sound right?

.......I wouldn't go any higher than that in aluminum for a smallish bolt..... secure with at least blue loc-tite.....red if you expect to challenge the braking system on an hourly basis!        Don't want to break 'em or strip 'em!

Fun working on a car with absolutely NO technical references 'eh???    Pantera not even something you can refer to either!

If you can find one of those "torque" charts showing recommended amounts of tight for various sized of bolts, that can come in very handy, but looks like you may have that already!

Some of the factory Ford shop manuals had a section or page with that on it....just trying to think where else.....  Fastenal website could have it....MSC.....  Google if nothing else for a chart.

Gettin' there!!!!
Steve

So, which would be better for bolting hub to rotor given I cannot find M8-1.25x28 partially threaded bolts in 10.9 or 12.9 grade

a) 4 bolts 'like the old bolts' that appear to be grade 8.8, M8-1.25x28, are partially threaded to 'match no threads  in hub' (about 8mm), threaded to match the threads in rotor (about 20mm), and will take about 18ft lb of torque

or

b) 4 bolts that are grade 10.9 (or 12.9) , M8-1.25x28, are fully threaded bolts that 'don't match no threads  in hub' (about 8mm), matches threads in rotor (about 20mm), and will take about 27 ft lb (or 31 ft lb) of torque.

Question is which makes for  strong hub rotor assembly, matching the partially threaded old bolts that align with the bolt hole threading, or going with the 10.9 (or 12.9) stronger bolts that won't have bolt hole threading thru the 8mm of the hub?

Disregard...found exactly what I needed at McMaster.

@muttsjet be sure to share what you found if it works.  Useful info!

MH

Dang!   I do not recall what I used for pads in the Goose!!!   I know I put the EBC "street" pads in the Pantera and they perform nicely, so if that is what you have here....you'll like them.   You do not want anything metallic that you need to heat up before you can stop! 

These would be same as a "street 427 Cobra" in the EBC catalog I believe.

Cheers!
Steve

@mangusta posted:

Dang!   I do not recall what I used for pads in the Goose!!!   I know I put the EBC "street" pads in the Pantera and they perform nicely, so if that is what you have here....you'll like them.   You do not want anything metallic that you need to heat up before you can stop! 

These would be same as a "street 427 Cobra" in the EBC catalog I believe.

Cheers!
Steve

And they Grind down your brake discs, almost the same amount as the brake pads… very costly proposition….

for mkeh above...the 4 M8-1.25x30 10.9 bolts attaching hub to rotor from mcmaster worked just about perfectly. Had to grind 2mm off back side to insure clearance with bolt heads sticking out of spindle. Checked across internet and torqued these bolts to 26.9 ft lb using permatex blue.

part number for 25 bolts is 91310A538 for 22.72 with shipping and tax. Bolts themselves were 10.78.

Checked parts manual, but unlike most cars, there was no washer between outside bearing on hub nut. Confirm this is correct? I assume next step is to take a chisel and pound the top edge of nut into the two indentations in the spindle. Correct?

Dialin indicator indicated about 2 thousands of movement after tightening nut and adjusting it a couple times.

Now have pass front end (brake, ball joints, tierod) pulled apart for refurb and new parts, and am comparing it to my completed drv side.

If I wanted to start from scratch on front wheel alignment, is their an initial factory number of turns (my drv side was 18 turns) for the heim connected to the rack? Additionally, my drvs side tie rod was 57mm from outside edge of tightening nut to center of tierod joint (the pass side is 69mm). What is an initial setup parameter for the tierods?

Once rebuild complete, I'll perform a manual home alignment and then take car to the shop for an accurate alignment.

Pass side suspension rebuilt. Just need grease pass bearings and reinstall brakes on both sides.

Take a look at these pics. Confirm original jack point still useable on side of car (appears to be). Confirm the black frame components abeam the red heads of each jack stand are good for supporting the car. You can see from one pic that pass rear wheel exploded when I put to much air in, and rear now supported on wood block under suspension (which is luckily as I had put these blocks there just in case tires failed (they are old!)).

Front end done: brakes rebuilt (new pistons/seals, cleaned out front brake lines) , wheels (repacked new inside/outside bearings, outer races, and lt/rt nuts), steering (new boots and grease, greased heims and new boots, new tie rods), and suspension (new ball joints). New EBC DP2223 greenstuff pads arriving this week.

Starting back end tomorrow. Unless I can tell bearings are an issue (ie, looks like press required for bearings  from reading forum), will probably just rebuild brakes, clean out lines, and try to grease as many heims  as I can.

Finally back at it. Moving to rear suspension/brakes/bearings. Heim joint suspension wise:

- Anything besides getting grease into all plethora of heim joints thruout the rear if car tracked well before rebuild?

- Brakes and ebrakes should be straight forward rebuild as were the fronts.

- Rear bearings...if I get brakes/ebrakes off, and dragging stops when I turn disc, will probably skip new rear bearings (read thru https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...-bearing-replacement and https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...539#1598208420767539 and looks pretty painful to get at bearings to replace unless absolutely necessary)...if I go for it, looks like  inside nut comes off and disc/spindle/hub assembly pulls out without needing to take anything apart (learned my lesson from the front). The question then will be the two articles above and getting bearings out and back in.

Different topic, I think the paint shop lost and then made rudimentary fabrications of my front hood latches (part # 11 page 10 of the parts manual). A picture of what this part is supposed to look like would be greatly appreciated.

-

My eBrake cable looked bad, so I cut a way the plastic sheathing and slipped some heatshrink tubing over the wound steel tube, shrunk it and sprayed it with clear epoxy.  Looks MUCH better...  Time will tell if it holds up...

MH

Great idea. Was just wondering about that as I looked at it today.

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...-hood-latch-brackets

I assume you mean the chrome brackets, the latches are easy to find...I bought an inductive heater (me w/o a torch in my apartment in Taiwan...) to bend the 6mm rod (bend over a section of pipe). Nate's notes, as usual, save the day...

Data point for getting out caliper piston that won't come out with 140psi of compressed air... used a grease gun and came right our... proper zerk fittings after a couple tries 3/8"-24.

Good idea with the grease gun, I had a stuck caliper piston and ended up reattaching that caliper to the brake system hydraulics and after putting every ounce of strength I had onto the brake pedal, it shot out with a vengence.

MH

As I mentioned, painters lost brackets for front of hood. Their fabrication of replacements, in a word, sucked. So, attached are new fabricated front brackets. Very sturdy and don't expect hood to blow off!